Therefore, I attach particular importance to whether the defendant remembers when these epileptic fits occurred again....
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, it isn't necessary for you to keep emphasizing the malady with which the witness is afflicted thereby only emphasizing in his mind the situation. Let us proceed immediately now to the issue.
DR. GICK: I shall be as rapid as possible.
THE PRESIDENT: It isn't a matter of being rapid. It is a matter of getting to the issue. Dr. Gick, now please do that.
DR. GICK: Herr Strauch, In order to give a short picture of your personal conditions, again please tell us what you did after you left high school.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, now you are doing just exactly what the Tribunal to..d you not to do. Now will you please listen to what we say, Dr. Gick. We are having more difficulties with you than we have with the witness. Now please immediately get to the issue and the issue is not whether he graduated from high school. I think the Prosecution will admit that? The Prosecution very generously admits that the witness graduated from high school.
DR. GICK: Your Honor, I deem it necessary to give the Tribunal a picture of the personality and development of the defendant so that the Tribunal will be in a position to recognize what mental and professional development the defendant had which seem to me of great importance for the judgment of his deeds. Therefore, I went to deal very briefly with his professional training.
THE PRESIDENT: Well Dr. Gick, can't you get - you have got him out of high school, now, he is a grown-up man. Get into the field of activity, of his life's activity. BY DR. GICK:
Q. Yes, I can do that. Well, then I want to start with the period when the defendant became politically active for the first time, Your Honor. Herr Strauch, will you tell the Tribunal now in what way you became politically active for the first time?
A. First I was a member of the "Jung Deutschen Orden" because I was of the opinion that Communism had to be fought. Therefore, I joined the German-Sweden. It was an organization which sometimes increased and sometimes decreased and I don't remember exactly, but I think I joined the Deutsche Orden in 1937. That was the year, I believe, which I joined.
Q. What was this organization? What were the tasks of the Jung Deutschen Orden?
A. Well, the tasks, the idea was to protect the German Nation and to get the light back into the German people. therefore, it was the belief that in this field it could become active.
A. Was not the task of the Jung Deutschen Orden to fight Communism?
Q. Certainly. There was only communism and bougeosie in Germany and then it was the right, the political right, that nothing else could be discovered and one had to fight this state of affairs. We fought Communism with the few people we had. please excuse me, it is a little difficult again. We wanted to fight Communism and as we had experienced the war a short while ago and because there was no air as a consequence of the War it was very difficult to live, and so on, and, it was no longer possible to go on.
Q For how long were you a member of Jung Deutsche orden? Did you understand me?
A No, I don't understand you. Orden? 1925. I don't remember exactly.
Q Didn't you only join in 1926?
A yes, of course, 1926. I remember that when I joined the university then I joined the Jung Deutsche orden.
Q When did you join the SA?
A The SA I joined on 8 September, I think, 1931. Then I joined the SS......
Q Just a moment. Let us remain with SA for a little while. Why did you join the SA?
A Why? I was of the opinion that if one did have to join an organization for political reasons then one must join the NSDAF.
Q You mean SA which you joined?
A The SS and at the same time I joined the SS. Again, therefore, in 19 - - - The SA, then the SS, and finally in 1943 -- is it all clear?
Q Before you joined the SA did you leave the Jung Deutsche orden?
Q In any case you left. Why did you do that and why did you join the SA?
A Because I wanted join a political party. I wanted to join a Party which one could decently join. time -- I and my comrades -- my comrades suggested to me to join the SS-
comrades who were members of the Party and to fight for Germany. Under the conditions, therefore, seeing that Germany would be lost, therefore, one had to be a member of a Party which one could decently join.
Q Which formation did you join after you joined the SA?
Q What formation did you join after you joined the SA? and then the SS.
Q When did you join the SS?
Q What year?
A 19 - - -, I think -- I believe, in 1930. Then in 1931 I joined the Party. No, in 19 - - - I joined the Party in 1932 and 1933 I joined the SS.
Q Herr Strauch, did you not join on 10 January 1932 the SS?
Q A nd did you not join on 1 August 1932 the Party?
A No. If there is material you can produce for being given to me I can certify it and comment on it.
Q When did you join the SS and when did you join the Party?
Q Why did you leave the SA, Herr Strauch to join the SS? my liking. The general conditions were better.
Q you mean the best organization?
Q Organization for what purpose?
A Our task was mainly to protect the Fuehrer. For instance, when somebody came -- it's all right -- I have heard that -- when any fights or incidents of that kind took place they were shot at by our people and they were fought by our organization, that is the SS.
Q Did you ever hold any office Within the Party? were carried out, such as being a Scharfuehrer -
Q You mean the SS?
Q Will you then tell us about your career in the SS? to protect the territories and I can't say what else. mainly, however, our main task was the protection of - -
Q protection of what? for being a referendar? Did you not also receive a law training. three years.
Q There years. Therefore, were you not during that time a member of the SS? A member of the SD I mean.
Q SS or SD member?
Q During 31 you were still referendar?
Q You were at the same time amember of the SS?
Q Did you have the opportunity to become active in the SS? comrade.
Q Please go on with your career. What other jobs did you hold in the SD?
A I was gradually promoted. Well, I was a legal official first. Then I was examined by the Internal Administration, by the Internal Administration. I was taken over by the Internal Administration.
Q But that is not what we are talking about. We are speaking about your career in the SS.
A yes, I wasin the Administration. That is completely correct what I said -- in the Internal Administration, as referendar. Service.
Q How did you join the Security Service? Security Sector. I received the order to report to the Sector and I was to report there -- was to report there.
Q Who ga ve you the order?
Q What supreme commander?
A Rhineland. But my commanding officer did not went to have me transferred he wanted to keep me.
Q You mean your Commander in the SS?
Q Was that the SS-section officer in Essen?
A Yes. What was his name?
Q What was his name? It doesn't matter. Anyway, it was the SS-section chief, Essen, who passed on the order to you. Witness, what order did he give you? Essen and then I was to take over the sector in Dortmund.
Q What job was that, the SS-section?
Q Or is it the SD-sector?
Q SD sector? expected to fulfil with the security service?
A No, not at all, I never knew what happened. I had no idea what they were doing there.
Q What was your first task in the security service? had to be organized and built up before one started with the organization. Everything that has been said here I can only confirm. your SD activity?
A You mean my SD activity? Yes, the worst for me was, or the most important thing was to organize the organization and to build up something, to build up an information and news service.
Q Where?
Q Were you not first in Essen?
that chapter was closed.
Q What did you do after that?
Q Where did you go?
A First to Essen. Then I remained in Dortmund, and remained in Dortmund. district of Arnsberg?
Q How long did you hold that position?
A You mean in Dortmund?
Q Up to what year then? concerning the tasks and the manner of working of your security service which you were in charge of. tasks, and during the - within the population to collect names and activities and to pass these on to the the superior office which again passed it on, and collect them somehow, and that was the task, to transfer them to the superior office and thus to conclude this.
Q Did you hold any other tasks besides? to the station police whom you suspected?
Q Were you active fulltime in the security service? is the state police, and I refused to work for the state police in any manner whatsoever, and it was thus that a number of comrades of mine suggested to me that I should occupy myself with other things. There was one, or at least two, which matter somewhat, but I said, "Here I have my directives, and I only have to collect information, and there is nothing else that I want to do." the SD. What, then, was your fulltime job, your professional job? secret state police, not the state police, but from the I can't remember.
Q The interior administration? and I could manage with this. which was an honorary activity, you were an official of the interior administration? sector of the district Arnsberg?
Q How long was it? Koenigsberg, I immediately took my wife with me because I reckoned with difficulties. yet.
At the moment we are still in Dortmund, managing district Arnsberg.
A What do you mean, at the beginning of the war? How long was that?
A Oh, that is what you mean. There I was from -When was it that I started? That was in -- Well, I was in Rot.... and there I remained for seven years I think.
Q Seven years? That is until the year '41, is that right? arrived there until the year 1941. I don't know when it was that I started. That must have been in 19-- probably in 19--, I really cannot remember. I should like to say the following. I believe - I want to say the following - I was taken there 1626. I was taken there and then I was separated and simultaneously I was assessor and assistant lawyer. I don't know when I arrived. I would have to look deeper into matters.
Q Let's recollect. You were the leader of your "SS" sector in Dortmund and that was in the year 1934. Do you remember that?
A '34? No. In '34 I was a section leader, an Abschnittsfuehrer.
Q Yes. Now I ask you, for how long did you remain the section chief in this district?
A Until when?
A Until the beginning of '34. long did you remain a section chief?
recollect and then in '20 yes, I think it must have been '20, I come to Koenigsberg. That is approximately how it was.
Q You mean '20 you went to Koenigsberg? Arnsberg as a section chief and you remained in that position until 1941. Do you remember whether that is correct?
A 1940 to Koenigsberg? That is quite impossible.
Q How is it according to your recollection? I don't remember.
Q You can't remember that? Do you remember that your activity as section chief in Dortmund was interrupted on repeated occasions. Do you remember that? Do you understand what I asked you? went to Russia, or the middle of '40, of '40 I went to Russia, and then I first was under Stahlecker. certain events. Do you remember that during your activity with the sector in Dortmund, you repeatedly did something else just them cope with your SD activity? it is very difficult to concentrate. I can't even keep that thing on, the earphones on.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, we will anticipate the recess by five or ten minutes, and I would suggest that when we reconvene after the recess that you begin with the year 1939. He will have had a little rest, his energies may be refreshed, and then we can get immediately to the issue. Later on, if you believe that it is important, then you can go back in to the period prior to 1939, but now that we have him here and he is oriented, let's get to the issue. So I would suggest that after recess you do that.
( A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. BELZER: Dr. Belzer for the defendant Graf. Your Honor, I would like to ask that, for the further preparation of his defense, the defendant Graf be excused from attendance in court this afternoon.
THE PRESIDENT: The defendant Graf will be excused from attendance in court this afternoon.
Q Dr. Gick, it will be permissible within reasonable limits for you to lead the witness, so that the amount of talking that he will need to do will be reduced to a minimum. You can take him right up to a situation, and then put the question to him.
DR. GICK: Very well, Your Honor. your Honor, I had my earphones on , and thus I was not able to hear the English translation. During the recess it was pointed out to me that the testimony of the witness didn't come through in the English translation as it was said originally by the witness. What the defendant said here as a witness appeared in the German as rather confused German, in fact, completely confused. I understand the fact that it is difficult to translate the words of the witness in such a manner that the Tribunal gets the impression exactly as given by the witness. But I think it necessary, that the translation, in order to give you a correct impression, give every word the defendant says, no matter what nonsense it is.
THE PRESIDENT: Now Dr. Gick -
DR. GICK: Even that repititions are also mentioned.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, please, Dr. Gick. Now, we will instruct you not to keep referring to the defendant's condition, to nonsense, and so on. You proceed with the examination. The Court will determine whether it is nonsense or not, and we are not aware there were any libertics taken with the translation, but if any mistakes occur in the translation, and they are pointed out to the Tribunal later, or even now if you know exactly which ones they were, the corrections will be made.
Now let's proceed immediately to the issue. 1939, what happened?
DR. GICK: In order to bring this up again, may I ask the interpreter be asked that every word be translated.
THE PRESIDENT: We have the utmost faith in the interpreter, and that will be done without any additional admonition or request on the part of the Tribunal.
DR. GICK: Very well. BY DR. GICk: At that time you were still Section Chief?
A Well, when was I supposed to have arrived? At that time you were Section Chief in Dortmund?
Q What office did you take over after the year 1941?
Q That is all right. You should merely answer. as Section chief in Dortmund, where were you transferred to ?
A Yes. Yes.
Q Do you understand my question?
Q Please, answer it?
Q You don't understand the question then?
Q Then please will you reply to it? already discussed that I was to go somewhere else, and the Section Chief said - -
THE PRESIDENT: Witness. Witness, will you please direct your attention to the Tribunal. Where were you in the year 1941?
THE wITNESS: I beg your pardon?
THE PRESIDENT: Where were you in the year 1941?
THE WITNESS: Well, Your Honor, I always get the German. I always hear you speaking in German. I don't know that much German.
THE PRESIDENT: Where were you in the year of 1941?
THE WITNESS: In the year of 1941, I was in Koenigsberg.
THE PRESIDENT: All right, Proceed Dr. Gick. BY DR. GICK: Koenigsberg then?
A Yes. No answer.
Q What office did you take over there?
Q I don't understand you?
A The Government Counsellor's Office.
Q The Government Counsellor's Office, is that right? Herr Strauch, please think what you are saying. You could not have taken over the Government Counsellor's Office?
A No, I didn't take it over. I took over one department in the Government Counsellor's Office, that is what I took over. The Government Counsellor's Office in the police - - the subject of - - - in the police county counsellor, senior government, that is too main government.
Q In Koenigsberg there is a district government?
Q Were you with the district government?
A No. There are two government. There is one main government, and another government.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, please, please, now Dr. Gick, you know from the document, and from the personnel record, of Eduard Strauch, that since 4 November 1941 he was leader of Einsatzcommando Latvia, two. so begin with the date, November 4th, 1941. you know what he is charged with in the documents. Take up the document immediately and have him give whatever explanations. Counsel, you may begin with. when he actually arrived in Russia, or, when he was assigned to go to Russia, but this is a crux of the charges against him, what he did in the East, and, if you want to go back later, you may. You may lead two witness to that point.
DR. GICK: Your Honor, It is very difficult for me to conduct this direct examination here, because in my opinion I don't have a man in front of me with whom I can conduct this examination in a normal manner. I was just about - -
THE PRESIDENT: That is quite obvious to the Tribunal, and for this reason we said that you may lead the witness. you know your case. you know what he is charged with.
DR. GICK: yes, I am just about to clarify that point.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
Q Herr Strauch, when did you come to Koenigsberg? Hundred and -- Well, as far as I know -
Q How long were you in Koenigsberg then?
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, you don't need to labor over a date. If he doesn't think of it, you may supply it. We don't need to linger and work and puzzle over things which can easily be found in the record and which you undoubtedly know, so help the witness.
DR. GICK: Your Honor, may I comment on this very briefly? It is my opinion that the most important part is to hear what the defendant has to reply himself to may questions, and, if I lead him and he answered a leading which I put to him, this would not give exactly the same impression which the defendant would give otherwise.
THE PRESIDENT: We don't mean that you should lead him on a very vital point, but the matter of when he left Koenigsberg, if it is in the documents, you needn't worry him with that, and, incidentally, it is the first time, Judge Speight observes, that we have heard a lawyer objecting to leading a witness.
DR. GICK: The special situation requires it, Your Honor. May I continue, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDENT: Please do. Q (BY DR. GICK) Herr Strauch, may I remind you that in Koenigsberg you were Section Chief of the SD, which is the same as in Dortmund, until the time when you were supposed and had to take over another office.
Do you know what office you were supposed to take over? to Riga? reached me on 2 January, as far as I know.
Q Second of January, what year?
A In what year? Nineteen Hundred -- Nineteen Hundred -22 -- 20 -- 2d January 1920.
Q Herr Strauch in 1941 you were in Koenigsberg. Then the order only could have reached you in the year 1941, is that right?
Q When do you think that the order reached you? Yes, 1941 Is that right, 1941? And then 19-- I took over the kommando in Riga for a very brief period. I had to remain there and them in 1942 I was transferred form Riga to -what is that called again? I can't think of it. I will think of it in a moment. Just a moment. Rovno. the date.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Glancy, just a moment, Dr. Gick. Mr. Glancy, will you please furnish the Tribunal with the document numbers, document books, and the pages which contain ther specific charges against this witness?
MR. GLANCY: Sir, that might be found in the Order of Presentation contained in Document Book III-A, Responsibility. of the Defendant Strauch.
THE PRISIDENT: Page?
MR. GLANCY: Page 2 of Document Book III-A. It begins with NO-2966 in Document Book III-A and continues on.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. GLANCY: Do you have that, Sir?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I have it now, thank you. All right, proceed, Dr. Gick. Q (BY DR. GICK) Herr Strauch, please concentrate hard and try to remember when you received the order to take over the office in Riga.
A I can't say quite exactly. but I assume that -- I assume that in '44 -- that must have been in 1944. few days of November, 1941, you received a teletype message containing the order that you were to go to Riga, is that right?
Q What happened after this? No, it is not right. It isn't right.
Q What is wrong here?
A This teletype message was not this one. It was a teletype message where it was suggested to me in Riga to remain. I was told in this teletype message to remain in Riga.
Q What happened as a result of that teletype message? I was to remain in Riga forever.
Q That you were to remain in Riga forever? to remain there constantly.
elbow and your upper arm again? I am asking you again?
A It is quite simple. I wrote to my wife and told her
Q You would have to return to Berlin?
A No, to Koenigsberg. I would have to return to Koenigsberg.
Q But you were in Koenigsberg. You were to go to Riga from Koenigsberg?
A Where was I? O, like this -- that is how it was In Derrings I was in Koenigsberg and I waited there and wanted to get away and then there came my attempt to remain in Koenigsberg and since -- and since I did not want to remain in Koenigsberg, I made an attempt -- well, through a teletype message, I was trying to get away through this teletype message, and then I was told I would not be permitted. I could not -- or, rather, I could get leave, but that I had to go back to -- to -- what do you call it? To Frankfurt on the Oder River.