Q How long have you been attending this patient? put to him?
THE PRESIDENT: Anything else, Dr. Surholt?
Dr. Grahmann, we thank you very much for giving us of your time and attention. That will be all.
Dr. Surholt, do you h ave anything else to present in the Rasch case?
DR. SURHOLT: Nothing to present, Your Honor, But I would like to take up once more my motion about severance of the case and to ask the Tribunal for a ruling.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we believe that you have indicated your position very clearly. You have made your motion. We now have the reports of various doctors. We H ave seen the demonstration in court so that the Tribunal will be able to rule upon this motion without any further argument.
DR. SURHOLT: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: So -
DR. SURHOLT: Your Honor, only one further remark. The facts as they have been characterized by you is clear, also my reasons given so far need no further addition, but there is something that I haven't submitted yet. That's the general difficulties for the defense. It isn't merely that the defendant could not stand the examination as a witness in his own case here in court, but the preparation of the entire defense material under the effects of this disease has suffered badly. This morning already I have explained that despite innumerable visits It's probably the same there as it is here in court, insofar as I found him in good shape and if I extended my discussion somewhat the result was so much the more negative on the following day.
Because of exhaustion and because of his entire condition which he called bad he rejected the questioning giving the reason that he could not stand it.
I merely wanted to say by this that in the decision of the court, not only the incident here in court but the entire difficulties of the total defense should be considered.
THE PRESIDENT: That will be considered. We merely want to add one further expression on this particular episode and it is this, that the defendant Otto Rasch was brought into court because it was his right to be heard. That is a constitutional privilege which the Court gave to him and insisted upon for his own benefit.
DR. SURHOLT: The defendant Rasch told me expressly that he wanted to make an attempt considering the importance for his defense but from the beginning he was skeptical about this attempt.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. Now, Dr. Aschenauer, I had thought perhaps we could reach you earlier in the day and then you would be able to give us your various document books.
DR. SURHOLT: One question, Your Honor. Dr. Grahmann can be eased, is that correct?
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yes, indeed. Dr. Grahmann, that is sufficient.
(The witness was dismissed)
THE PRESIDENT: Before we consider the presentation of your document book, Dr. Aschenauer, we will make the general announcement to all counsel that the program is now pretty well established as to what will transpire in the remaining few days of this trial. When we recess this week after having heard the other defendant, rebuttal, and whatever surrebuttal there is, the Tribunal will adjourn. Does anyone have a calendar here? Is "Montag", Monday? Very well. The Tribunal will adjourn until "Januar 26, Montag". Is that right? Very well. Until - I had better be my own interpreter here - until Monday, January 26. At that time we will hear the closing arguments on the part of defense and prosecution. It is assumed that an hour's argument on the part of each defendant through his counsel will be adequate to cover the points involved, with the exception of the Ohlendorf case because Dr. Aschenauer has undertaken the burden to generally argue the international law and the common defenses and we will take that up later.
If any of the defense counsel believes that one hour is not adequate for him in the presentation of his summation he will then please make application to the Tribunal. He does not need to make it formally, he can see anyone of the three judges, so that we can determine whether he should be allowed a little more than the hour's time. Dr. Aschenauer will be allowed such time as he considers reasonable and I would appreciate it if he would let us know just about how much time he thinks he will need. He doesn't need to tell us that now but rather soon. The summation, of course, should be prepared as quickly as possible because we have the translation difficulties always with us and you know if we get too many documents to the translation room at one time there is bound to be a congestion. We do not know whether any of defense counsel intend to submit in addition to the final closing arguments trail briefs. May the Tribunal be enlightened on that point. Do defense counsel intend to submit what we call a brief? Well, counsel, are privileged to do so if they desire. It is not asked for.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Aschenauer, you indicated you would take perhaps an hour and a half approximately to present your documents and in view of the lateness of the hour, and in view of the fact that tomorrow morning we intend to take the defendant Strauch, I am afraid it would not be desirable to divide up the presentation, so if you don't mind we will have you present your documents immediately after the Strauch case is finished. Is that satisfactory to you?
DR. ASCHENAUER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much.
DR. ASCHENAUER: That is all right will me, but I would just like to announce that after my documentary presentation I would ask that the defendant Ohlendorf be excused for one and a half days from the session because I want to discuss several questions about the final arguments with him.
THE PRESIDENT: That is entirely in order, and when you have finished with your presentation of the documents your request will be fulfilled.
DR. ASCHENAUER: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now be in recess until tomorrow morning at nine-thirty.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 13 January 1948, at 0930 hours) Otto Ohlendorf, et al.
, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg,
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II.
Military Tribunal 11 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
Dr. GIGK: Defense counsel Dr. Gick, for the defendant Strauch. Your Honor, the Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Roeder von Bayer is present in this room. I received the permission yesterday for the Chief Medical Officer von Bayer to be present during the direct examination of the Defendant Strauch. I would like to be permitted, Your Honor, to have Dr. Bayer sitting at this table here in order to be able to follow the direct examination of the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: You may have Dr. Bayer sit whereever you think it will best serve your purpose.
DR. GICK: Your Honor, before I begin with the direct examination of the defendant in the witness box, I would like to make the following statement. On the 23 October 1947, I submitted a motion of severence to the Tribunal stating the frequency of the epileptic fits, and the consequence thereof. The American Board of Medical Officers examined Strauch on 11 December 1947, and the result wasthat under given conditions he would not be able to be responsible for his own acts, Strauch's condition has become considerably worse after this.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, it is not necessary to go into a discussion of this. You have made your motion, andthe motion is now pending. The defendant is in the courtroom, and I would suggest we immediately proceed to the examination, because the longer time that we expand in discussion, the more energy is being used by the defendants, merely in waiting. So that unless you have something specific to present to the Tribunal to rule upon, it would not be necessary to review the entire history of what has happened up to now.
DR. GICK: It is not my intention, Your Honor to review the entire history. It is merely my intention to explain to the Tribunal that I am still as I always had been of the opinion, as I expressed in my written application that --
THE PRESIDENT: That is just it, you have explained it all in your written application. It isnot necessary to tell us what you told us in the application.
DR. GICK: Your Honor ---- I know ---
THE PRESIDENT: Don't you realize, Dr. Gick, that the longer you talk now, the more of a tension you are developing in the defendant. He is here. The examination has been made. It has been determined that he iscapable of testifying. Let usproceed to the testimony, unless, of course, something comes up which requires a decision. Don't you agree with me?
DR. GICK: Yes, I now agree, Your Honor, to begin with the direct examination, and if the situation should come up. I will put in my comment, which I meant to make before I was stopped.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, we don't mean to curtail your statement, but in view of what we are confronted, let's save time. The witness does not need to stand up to take the oath. testify as follows:
JUDGE DIXON: Witness, raise your right hand and repeat the oath after me. I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth, and will withhold and add nothing. (The witness repeats the oath while sitting.) BY DR. GICK:
Q. Herr Strauch, are you in the physical condition concerning your health to give an account for yourself today?
A. Yes, I hope that I am able to do it. I have a few difficulties, and I have difficulty in expressing myself, but I hope and any way I shal l try very hard to do so.
Q. Do you know why you are here?
A. Yes, I am here as a defendant in atrial so that -- in a political trial -- against especially which involves a number of especially large number of former people who are former political inmates.
Q. Herr Strauch, I want to start with the direct examination with you as the witness. I wouldlike you to concentrate as well as possible, and I want you to give corresponding answers to the questions so far as it is possible. Do you understand me?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, will you give us your personal particulars?
A. I was born on 17 August 1906.
Q. Where.
A. In Essen.
Q. How old are you then, today?
A. I beg your pardon.
Q. How old are you today?
A. I am today forty-one years old.
Q. What was your last civilian occupation?
A. My last civilian occupation was SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer -I mean, SS-Oberregierungsrat, that is, Senior Government Councillor.
Q. You mean, Senior Government Councillor?
A. Yes.
Q. Oberregierungsrat?
A. Yes.
Q. Please give us a short review concerning your education, and your professional training?
A. I beg your pardon.
Q. I would like you to give me a short description concerning the way you were educated at home, and what professional training and education you have had?
A. I am the son of my father, a worker, and during the war -shortly after the First War, my father became unemployed, and my brother and myself, we did any old work that came along. For instance, myself, I gave coaching-lessons, and, thus, I earned a little money, and I was able to increase my parents! income. I thus was able to support with earnings and to increase a little the earning of my father and brothers. I worked myself, and my brother also worked. My parents worked very hard, and didn't bother about anything else. They always worked very hard, and the work was pretty hard, and they worked pretty hard so I could attend Gymnasium, which isa high school.
Q. Do you mean to say, Herr Strauch, that you always had to work very hard because your parents were not in a position to contribute anything towards your education, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. What schools did you attend?
A. I first attended Police School -- that is, not Police School, but the elementary school -- that is, the elementary school until the year of nineteen .... I must have to think it over -- I must think it over very hard, until I was nineteen. Until 1906.
Q. 1906?
A. 1906, yes.
Q. I thought you were born in 1906?
A. No.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, in order to save nervous energy, I don't think that I would tax the witness with questions on precise features of his early education. It isenough that he was educated. He can say in one year what hislast unit of education was, and then we must assume that he participated in all that went before that. BY DR. GICK:
Q. Herr Gick, when did you conclude your studies?
A. I can not put it in that way. May I just give a few details concerning thisfeature.
I was born in 1906, and sofar as I remember, 1906 I went to school, and 1910 I went to high school, the gymnasium; that means that for four years of my training I had four years training of elementary studies, and 1906 until I went to high school.
Q. You mean to say you finished your studies at high school? Did you graduate?
A. Yes, I graduated privately.
Q. You mean up to your graduation examination - you mean to say you earned your living for your studies yourself, is that right? Were you not prevented doing so through your epileptic fits which have become apparent today?
A. No, not at that time. When I studied - when I was partly going to elementary school or high school or to the university, I also worked.
Q. What I mean, did you have any epileptic fits at that time?
A. No, the first epileptic fits I had when I was a child and then in the British Camp that I was in, I think, in Dendorf.
Q. When was that?
A. That was the time --- I must work it out. I joined the forces in 1931 and I was under tremendous nervous strain as conditions were most unfavorable and I was released - and then I was completely released because it was not possible any longer.....
Q. What were you released from?
A. From the hospital.
Q. you mean the hospital of the Prisoner of War Camp?
A. Yes, I was taken to the hospital and I was then released.
Q. I asked you when was that?
A. Yes, I am just trying to recollect.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, just a moment, please. I don't think it is necessary to go into the medical history because that history has been thoroughly examined by the medical authorities and that is a part of the record. I would suggest that you immediately proceed to ask him when he entered the SS, if he did, and get right down to the issue. Later on, if we find that it is necessary, then we can go into these other collateral matters.
DR. GICK: Your Honor, I only attach particular value to the witness testifying as to what he remembers in order to clarify the point of his COURT II CASE IX condition.
Therefore, I attach particular importance to whether the defendant remembers when these epileptic fits occurred again....
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, it isn't necessary for you to keep emphasizing the malady with which the witness is afflicted thereby only emphasizing in his mind the situation. Let us proceed immediately now to the issue.
DR. GICK: I shall be as rapid as possible.
THE PRESIDENT: It isn't a matter of being rapid. It is a matter of getting to the issue. Dr. Gick, now please do that.
DR. GICK: Herr Strauch, In order to give a short picture of your personal conditions, again please tell us what you did after you left high school.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Gick, now you are doing just exactly what the Tribunal to..d you not to do. Now will you please listen to what we say, Dr. Gick. We are having more difficulties with you than we have with the witness. Now please immediately get to the issue and the issue is not whether he graduated from high school. I think the Prosecution will admit that? The Prosecution very generously admits that the witness graduated from high school.
DR. GICK: Your Honor, I deem it necessary to give the Tribunal a picture of the personality and development of the defendant so that the Tribunal will be in a position to recognize what mental and professional development the defendant had which seem to me of great importance for the judgment of his deeds. Therefore, I went to deal very briefly with his professional training.
THE PRESIDENT: Well Dr. Gick, can't you get - you have got him out of high school, now, he is a grown-up man. Get into the field of activity, of his life's activity. BY DR. GICK:
Q. Yes, I can do that. Well, then I want to start with the period when the defendant became politically active for the first time, Your Honor. Herr Strauch, will you tell the Tribunal now in what way you became politically active for the first time?
A. First I was a member of the "Jung Deutschen Orden" because I was of the opinion that Communism had to be fought. Therefore, I joined the German-Sweden. It was an organization which sometimes increased and sometimes decreased and I don't remember exactly, but I think I joined the Deutsche Orden in 1937. That was the year, I believe, which I joined.
Q. What was this organization? What were the tasks of the Jung Deutschen Orden?
A. Well, the tasks, the idea was to protect the German Nation and to get the light back into the German people. therefore, it was the belief that in this field it could become active.
A. Was not the task of the Jung Deutschen Orden to fight Communism?
Q. Certainly. There was only communism and bougeosie in Germany and then it was the right, the political right, that nothing else could be discovered and one had to fight this state of affairs. We fought Communism with the few people we had. please excuse me, it is a little difficult again. We wanted to fight Communism and as we had experienced the war a short while ago and because there was no air as a consequence of the War it was very difficult to live, and so on, and, it was no longer possible to go on.
Q For how long were you a member of Jung Deutsche orden? Did you understand me?
A No, I don't understand you. Orden? 1925. I don't remember exactly.
Q Didn't you only join in 1926?
A yes, of course, 1926. I remember that when I joined the university then I joined the Jung Deutsche orden.
Q When did you join the SA?
A The SA I joined on 8 September, I think, 1931. Then I joined the SS......
Q Just a moment. Let us remain with SA for a little while. Why did you join the SA?
A Why? I was of the opinion that if one did have to join an organization for political reasons then one must join the NSDAF.
Q You mean SA which you joined?
A The SS and at the same time I joined the SS. Again, therefore, in 19 - - - The SA, then the SS, and finally in 1943 -- is it all clear?
Q Before you joined the SA did you leave the Jung Deutsche orden?
Q In any case you left. Why did you do that and why did you join the SA?
A Because I wanted join a political party. I wanted to join a Party which one could decently join. time -- I and my comrades -- my comrades suggested to me to join the SS-
comrades who were members of the Party and to fight for Germany. Under the conditions, therefore, seeing that Germany would be lost, therefore, one had to be a member of a Party which one could decently join.
Q Which formation did you join after you joined the SA?
Q What formation did you join after you joined the SA? and then the SS.
Q When did you join the SS?
Q What year?
A 19 - - -, I think -- I believe, in 1930. Then in 1931 I joined the Party. No, in 19 - - - I joined the Party in 1932 and 1933 I joined the SS.
Q Herr Strauch, did you not join on 10 January 1932 the SS?
Q A nd did you not join on 1 August 1932 the Party?
A No. If there is material you can produce for being given to me I can certify it and comment on it.
Q When did you join the SS and when did you join the Party?
Q Why did you leave the SA, Herr Strauch to join the SS? my liking. The general conditions were better.
Q you mean the best organization?
Q Organization for what purpose?
A Our task was mainly to protect the Fuehrer. For instance, when somebody came -- it's all right -- I have heard that -- when any fights or incidents of that kind took place they were shot at by our people and they were fought by our organization, that is the SS.
Q Did you ever hold any office Within the Party? were carried out, such as being a Scharfuehrer -
Q You mean the SS?
Q Will you then tell us about your career in the SS? to protect the territories and I can't say what else. mainly, however, our main task was the protection of - -
Q protection of what? for being a referendar? Did you not also receive a law training. three years.
Q There years. Therefore, were you not during that time a member of the SS? A member of the SD I mean.
Q SS or SD member?
Q During 31 you were still referendar?
Q You were at the same time amember of the SS?
Q Did you have the opportunity to become active in the SS? comrade.
Q Please go on with your career. What other jobs did you hold in the SD?
A I was gradually promoted. Well, I was a legal official first. Then I was examined by the Internal Administration, by the Internal Administration. I was taken over by the Internal Administration.
Q But that is not what we are talking about. We are speaking about your career in the SS.
A yes, I wasin the Administration. That is completely correct what I said -- in the Internal Administration, as referendar. Service.
Q How did you join the Security Service? Security Sector. I received the order to report to the Sector and I was to report there -- was to report there.
Q Who ga ve you the order?
Q What supreme commander?
A Rhineland. But my commanding officer did not went to have me transferred he wanted to keep me.
Q You mean your Commander in the SS?
Q Was that the SS-section officer in Essen?
A Yes. What was his name?
Q What was his name? It doesn't matter. Anyway, it was the SS-section chief, Essen, who passed on the order to you. Witness, what order did he give you? Essen and then I was to take over the sector in Dortmund.
Q What job was that, the SS-section?
Q Or is it the SD-sector?
Q SD sector? expected to fulfil with the security service?
A No, not at all, I never knew what happened. I had no idea what they were doing there.
Q What was your first task in the security service? had to be organized and built up before one started with the organization. Everything that has been said here I can only confirm. your SD activity?
A You mean my SD activity? Yes, the worst for me was, or the most important thing was to organize the organization and to build up something, to build up an information and news service.
Q Where?
Q Were you not first in Essen?
that chapter was closed.
Q What did you do after that?
Q Where did you go?
A First to Essen. Then I remained in Dortmund, and remained in Dortmund. district of Arnsberg?
Q How long did you hold that position?
A You mean in Dortmund?
Q Up to what year then? concerning the tasks and the manner of working of your security service which you were in charge of. tasks, and during the - within the population to collect names and activities and to pass these on to the the superior office which again passed it on, and collect them somehow, and that was the task, to transfer them to the superior office and thus to conclude this.
Q Did you hold any other tasks besides? to the station police whom you suspected?
Q Were you active fulltime in the security service? is the state police, and I refused to work for the state police in any manner whatsoever, and it was thus that a number of comrades of mine suggested to me that I should occupy myself with other things. There was one, or at least two, which matter somewhat, but I said, "Here I have my directives, and I only have to collect information, and there is nothing else that I want to do." the SD. What, then, was your fulltime job, your professional job? secret state police, not the state police, but from the I can't remember.
Q The interior administration? and I could manage with this. which was an honorary activity, you were an official of the interior administration? sector of the district Arnsberg?
Q How long was it? Koenigsberg, I immediately took my wife with me because I reckoned with difficulties. yet.
At the moment we are still in Dortmund, managing district Arnsberg.
A What do you mean, at the beginning of the war? How long was that?
A Oh, that is what you mean. There I was from -When was it that I started? That was in -- Well, I was in Rot.... and there I remained for seven years I think.
Q Seven years? That is until the year '41, is that right? arrived there until the year 1941. I don't know when it was that I started. That must have been in 19-- probably in 19--, I really cannot remember. I should like to say the following. I believe - I want to say the following - I was taken there 1626. I was taken there and then I was separated and simultaneously I was assessor and assistant lawyer. I don't know when I arrived. I would have to look deeper into matters.
Q Let's recollect. You were the leader of your "SS" sector in Dortmund and that was in the year 1934. Do you remember that?
A '34? No. In '34 I was a section leader, an Abschnittsfuehrer.
Q Yes. Now I ask you, for how long did you remain the section chief in this district?
A Until when?
A Until the beginning of '34. long did you remain a section chief?