QWas the staff of that regiment accommodated near you?
AThe staff of that regiment was about three kilometers west from my own position.
QCan you give us more detailed information regarding the exact location of the staff quarters, 537 I mean?
AStaff quarters of 537 were in a rather nice Russian timber house. Commissars were supposed to have been living there before and it was on the steep bank of the River Dnieper. It was somewhat off the road, perhaps four to five hundred meters away and it was four kilometers west from the main highway Smolensk to Wibetsk.
QWho wasthe commanding officer of the regiment after the capture of Smolensk?
AAfter the capture of Smolensk, Colonel Bedenck was the colonel of the regiment?
QFor how long?
AUntil about November, 1941.
QWho was his successor?
AHis successor was Colonel Ahrens.
QHow long?
AApproximately until September -- it may have been August, 1943.
QWere you near Katyn aslong as that, too?
AUntil the Supreme Command of the Army Group transferred its headquarters farther west, I was still there.
QWhat were your relations to the commanders of this regiment?
AMy relations to the regimental commanders were most hearty, both officially and after duty, which is due to the fact that I myself had been the first commander of that regiment. I myself had formed the regiment and I was most attached to it.
QDid you personally visit the Dnieper castle frequently?
AI went to the Dnieper castle frequently; I can well say, in normal times, once or twice a week.
Q Did the commanders visit you in the meantime?
AThe commanders came to see me more frequently than I went to see them.
QDid you know anything about the fact that near Smolensk, about twentyfive to forty kilometers from the town, there were three Russian camps which contained Polish prisoners of war who had fallen into the hands of the Germans?
ANothing was known of that to me. I have never heard of it.
QWas there an order, which is supposed to have come from Berlin, that Polish officers who were prisoners of war should be shot?
ANo, there neverwas such an order issued.
QHave you yourself given such an order?
AI have never given such on order.
QDo you know whether Colonel Bedenck or Colonel Ahrens have caused such shootings to be carried out?
AI am not informed, but I consider it absolutely impossible.
QWhy?
ABecause such a decisive order would first, unconditionally, have gone through me, for I was the direct superior of the regiment. And, secondly, because if such an order had been given, for a reason which I couldn't explain to myself and through a channel which I wouldn't have been able to control, then the commanders would most certainly have called me or they would have come to see me and they would have said: "General, they are asking something here which we can not understand."
QDo you know First Lt. Hodt?
AYes, I know him.
QWhat position did he have in Regiment 537?
AHodt had a number of posts in the regiment. Mostly, he was sent ahead because he was a particularly qualified officer, particularly technically qualified. He was usually making preparations when headquarters were changed. He was used as an advance party of the so-called technical company, in order to establish the new fighting positions; and then in the regiment he was the expert for the telephone system. That meant he dealt with all telephone calls and all technical sides of the telephone system with the Supreme Commander of the Army Group, and in my staff he was often used to fill the position of any of my officers who were on leave.
QWas he also in charge of the advance party during the advance on Katyn
AThat I cannot say. I can only say that I personally heard from the head of my staff communications system that he had sent an officer ahead, after it had been ascertained where the headquarters were to be constructed, that this officer was acting on my behalf and was preparing things in such a way as I wanted it from the point of view of the communications troop commander. I do not know who was in charge of that advance party at the time, but it is perfectly possible that it was Lt. Hodt.
QWere you, during the period after the capture of Smolensk, on or about the 20th of July, 1941, and in the transfer of your staff to Katyn on the 20th of September, were you in Katyn or the vicinity?
AI was in the vicinity. I was where the headquarters of the Army Group wanted to establish itself; that is, in the woods west of Smolensk, on the fringe of which was Katyn.
QWere you there a let during that time?
AI should say two or three times.
QDid you talk to Hodt on those occasions?
AIf he was the officer in charge of that advance party, which I can not say today, then I must have talked to him certainly. At any rate, I did talk to my officer, the one I went, and on that occasion, the one belonging to the regiment also.
QHave you heard anything about the question of whether, during that time, shooting occurred?
AI have never heard anything except in 1943, when these graves were opened.
Q Did you or Regiment 537 have the necessary technical 1 July A LJG 14-1 means, pistols, ammunition and so on, at your disposal which would have made it possible to carry out such a decree?
AThe regiment was supplied, according to strength, with ammunition and weapons. Naturally, because it was a communications regiment in the rear area, it was less efficiently equipped than the fighting troops. Such a task, however, would have been something unusual for the regiment, because a communications regiment has completely different tasks, and it wouldn't have been in a position technically to carry out such mass executions.
QDo you know the location where these graves were discovered later on?
AI know the site because I drove post it a great deal.
QCan you describe it mono accurately?
ATaking the main read Smolensk-Witebsk, a wooded part led through undulating ground. There were scattered spaces, which were overgrown with timber, however, and heather, and used as a path to get to the Knieper Castle from the main read.
QWas the place where these graves were later discovered overgrown whom you got there?
AIt was overgrown just like the surrounding ground, and there was no difference between that space and the remaining part of the ground.
QConsidering your knowledge of the vicinity, would you consider it possible that 11,000 Peles could have been buried on that spot, people who may have been shot between June and September, 1941?
AI consider that it is out of the question, certainly for this one reason alone, that if the commander had known it at the time he would dertainly never have chosen as a place for his headquarters the spot next to 11,000 dead.
QCan you tell me how the discovery of the graves happened?
AI had no official dealings with that. I only heard that through inhabitants or somebody it had become known that these large-scale executions had taken place there.
Q From whom did you hear that?
1 July A 14-2 LJG
AQuite probably through the commander himself, who, because he was directly on that site had heard more about that than even I had. But I can't remember that exactly now.
QSo you didn't receive official notice about the discovery of the graves, did you?
ANo, I didn't.
QAfter the opening of the graves, did you talk to the German or foreign members of that commission?
AI have never talked to any members of that commission.
DR. S TANNER:I have no further questions, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT:Colonel Smirnov.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
QWitness, you arrived in the region of Katyn in September 1943?
A 1941, not 1943.
QExcuse me. I meant September 1941. Is that correct?
AYes, September 1941.
QAnd you content that you did not knew anything about camps of Polish prisoners of war who were in the hands of German military authorities, is that so?
AI have never at any time heard anything about Polish prisoners of war being in the hands of German troops.
QI understand that this had no direct relation to your official activity as a signal corps officer, but did you over witness cases when German military units combed the woods through the vicinity of the highway Smolensk-Witebsk to stop Polish prisoner of war who escaped from the camps?
AI have never heard anything about troops moving there in order to, shall we say, recapture escaped Polish prisoners of war. I have heard about that here for the first time.
QPlease answer me. Haven't you seen German military units searching for Polish prisoners of war who were hiding in the woods?
AI have not seen them.
Q Please answer the following question: You were on good 1 July A LJG 14-3 terms with Colonel Ahrens, weren't you?
AI have good relations with all commanders of the regiment.
QAnd in addition to that, you were his immediate superior?
ARight.
QColonel Ahrens found out about the mass graves at the and of 1941 or at the beginning of 1942. Did he tell you about this, about the fact that he discovered them?
AI cannot believe that in 1941 Colonel Ahrens is supposed to have discovered the graves. I cannot imagine that, and If he had, I would have known about it then.
QSo you contend that in 1942 and in 1943 Colonel Ahrens didn't communicate with you in regard to this fact?
AColonel Ahrens never told me, and he would have told me if he had known.
QI am interested in the following answer to the question of the defense. You said that the signal corps regiment had not enough weapons to carry out these shootings. What do you mean by that? What number of weapons did you possess?
AThe signal regiment was mostly equipped with pistols and with carbines. They had no heavy arms.
QPistols of what caliber?
AThat was the Parabellum pistol. The caliber, I think, was 7.65, but I can't remember for certain.
QParabellum pistols. Were these Mauser pistols or some other weapons?
AThat varied. Non-commissioned officers, as far as I knew, had the smaller Mauser pistols. Actually, only non-commissioned officers were equipped with pistols. The majority of the men had carbines.
QI would like you to tell us some more about the pistols. You say that they were 7.65 caliber pistols, is that true.
AI cannot now, at the moment, give you exact information about the caliber, I only know that the Parabellum pistol had 7.65 or some such caliber.
I think the Mauser pistol had a some-
1 July A LJG 14-4 what smaller caliber.
QAnd Walther pistols?
AThere were Walthers there too. I think they had the same caliber as the Mauser. It is a smaller pistol and it is better than the somewhat cumbersome Parabellum pistol which is heavier.
QYes. Please tell me whether in this regiment the junior officers possessed the pistols. Is that true?
AAs a rule, non-commissioned officers had pistols but not carbines.
QAll right. Please tell us how many pistols this signal corps regiment possessed.
AOf course I cannot tell you that. Let's assume that every NCC had a pistol -
QAnd how many were there all together? How many pistols were there in your regiment if you consider that every non-commissioned officer had a pistol?
AThen that would amount to about 15-. However, to give a definite statement about that figure now is impossible. I can only give you clues.
QWhy do you consider that 150 pistols would be insufficient te carry out these mass killings which went on over a period of time? Why do you think so?
ABecause a signal regiment of an army group deployed in a large area is never together. The regiment went from Koladop as far as Tepsk and there were small units everywhere, and in the central department of the regiment there were comparatively few persons. There were never 150 pistols in one and the same place.
QThe main part of your units was in the Katyn woods, wasn't it?
AI didn't understand your question.
QThe main units of your regiment were located in the Katyn woods, weren't they?
A Principally there was the first company between the regimental staff quarters and the actual command of the army group.
Theywere accommodated there and they were the company which was handling the communications, the telephone and teleprinted messages for the army group. It was that company, therefore, which was nearest.
QOne more question. The officers of your regiment were obviously armed with pistols and not with carbines ?
AOfficers had pistols only and as a rule they only had small ones. Possibly one or the other may have had a Parabellum pistol.
QThat is to say or a Walther or Mauser ?
AYes, that is right.
QDid you frequently visit the villa where the headquarters of Regiment 537 was located ?
AYes, I was there at least once, sometimes twice a week.
QWere you interested as to why soldiers from other military units visited the villa and special beds were prepared for them as well as drinks and food in the kitchen ?
AI cannot imagine that any large-scale visits of strange soldiers or members of other units visited there or could have arrived there and would have been there. I do not know anything about that anyway.
QI did not speak about a great number. I am speaking of twenty or sometimes twenty-five men.
AIf the regimental commander received his chiefs and commanders for an officers' meeting then, of course, the little castle at the Dnieper would have a number of officer visitors which it normally would not have.
QNo, I have not mentioned the officers.
I would like to ask you another question. Would the figure 537 appear on the epaulettes of the soldiers belonging to the 537 regiment ?
AAs far as I recollect the figure was on the epaulettes and at the beginning of the war they could be covered up to camouflage then but I cannot remember whether during that particular period these cover-up flaps were used or not. At any rate entrance to the regimental headquarters had a yellow and black flag, which bore the figure 537.
QI am speaking about the arrival of soldiers who did not have on their shoulder strap the figure 537. Were you interested in finding out what those soldiers did there in September and October of 1941 ? Did your commanders report to you about this ?
AMay I ask what year this was, in 1941 ?
QYes, 1941.
AI do not think that at that time there was a lot of traffic of strangers at staff headquarters because during that period everything was being constructed and I cannot imagine that strange group units even of 20 or 30 people should have been there. I personally, as I have told you, was there only once or twice weekly during the beginning of October-November.
QBeginning with what date of September did you start visiting this villa once or twice a week ? What is the exact date ?
AThat I cannot say, I cannot tell you. The commanders of the army group were at the end of September and shortly before the battle of Yasma moved into that district from Volsov.
QConsequently, you could start visiting this villa only at the end of September or beginning of October.
AThen the little castle was finally occupied and the regiment did not arrive much earlier than we from the supreme command of the army group. They did not move there much earlier.
THE PRESIDENT :Colonel Smirnov, is it necessary to go into this detail Have you any particular purpose in going into so much detail ?
COLONEL SMIRNOV :Mr. President, I ask this question for the following reasons. Later we shall interrogate witnesses for the Soviet Prosecution on the same point and chiefly that person who was the chief of the legal and medical branch. That is why I would like to ask the permission of the Court to clarify this point concerning the time when the witness visited the villa.
THE PRESIDENT :Yes, very well. Do not go into greater detail than you find absolutely necessary. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV :
QConsequently, at the beginning of September 1941 you were not in the villa of Katyn woods and you could not be there, is that true ?
AI cannot remember that exactly. The regimental commander used it and he reconnoitered around the little castle and set it up for staff headquarters. When exactly he moved I cannot possibly tell you because I had other jobs to do.
Q No, I asked whether you personally could be in the villa during the first part of September, roughly up to the 20th.
of September. Could you be there or not ?
AI do not think so.
COLONEL SMIRNOV :I have no further questions, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT :Do you wish to re-examine ?
DR. STAHMER :Unfortunately, Mr. President, I shall have to come back to the question of time because it was not brought out too clearly during these last questions.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. STAHMER :
QThe decisive point is this, general. When did regiment 537 move into the castle ?
AAgain I assume during September.
QBeginning or end ?
AProbably rather more towards the end of September.
QUntil then only the advance party were there ?
AThe advance party of the regiment was there and the officer whom I sent ahead.
QHow many non-commissioned officers were with the advance party ?
AI cannot tell you exactly who the regiment sent. I personally had sent one officer. Generally the regiment could not have sent too many. Generally speaking, it is always the case that the regiment is still serving at the old position and simultaneously it is to construct the new position. Consequently, during this period of re-grouping, shall we say of the leap of a supreme command of an army group, there is always a considerable shortage of manpower. The old position still has to be looked after, the new position requires men for construction so that as always during this period, there were too few people.
QCan you not even give us an estimate of the figure of that advance party ?
AThirty, forty or fifty men.
QHow many non-commissioned officers ?
AVery probably one or two officers, a few non-commissioned officers and some other ranks.
Q The regiment was very widely drawn out, was it not ?
AYes.
QHow far, approximately ?
AIn the entire area of the army group center, Orel shall we say, OrelVitebsk -- in that entire area they were widely dispersed.
QHow many kilometers was that, approximately ?
AFour or five hundred kilometers.
QDo you know Judge Advocate General Dr. Konrad of the Army group ?
AYes.
ADo you know whether he, in 1943, interrogated the local inhabitants about the date when the Polish officers were supposed to have been shot in the wood ?
ANo, I do not know.
DR. STAHMER :I have no further questions, Mr. President. BY THE PRESIDENT :
QWere there any Einsatzkommandos in the Katyn area during the time that you were there ?
ANothing has ever come to my knowledge about that.
QDid you ever hear of an order to shoot Soviet commissars ?
AI only heard of that by heresay at the time.
QWhen ?
AProbably at the beginning of the Russian campaign, I think.
QBefore the campaign started or after ?
AI cannot remember having heard anything like that before the beginning of the campaign.
Q Who were to carry out that order?
1 July A LJG 16-1
AIn that sense, signal troops are not really fighting troops. Therefore, that probably had nothing to do with that, and therefore, we were in no way affected by the order.
QI did not ask you that. I asked you who had to carry it out.
AThose who came into contact with those people, presumably.
QAnybody who came in contact with Russian Commissars had to kill them; is that it?
ANo, I assume that the fighting troops, the actual fighting troops who were right out front and therefore had immediate contact with the enemy could be the only ones who were affected by that order. A signal regiment did not come into a position to to meet Commissars. That is probably why we were not mentioned in the order or affected by it.
THE PRESIDENT:The witness can retire.
COLONEL SMIRNOV:Mr. President, I ask permission to call as witness the former deputy mayor of the city of Smolensk during the German occupation, Professor of Astronomy, Bazilevsky Boris.
---------------
BAZILEVSKYBORIS, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
QWill you state your full name, please?
AProfessor Bazilevsky Boris.
QWill you make this form of oath:
I, a citizen of the USSR, called as a witness in this case, solemnly promise and swear before the High Tribunal to say all that I know about this case and to add or to withhold nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT:You may sit down.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
COLONEL SMIRNOV:With the permission of the Tribunal, I should like to start with my interrogation, Mr. President.
1 July A LJG 16-2
THE PRESIDENT:Certainly. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
QPlease tell us, witness, what your occupation was before the German occupation and where you were living in Smolensk.
ABefore the occupation of S molensk and the surrounding region, I lived in the city of Smolensk and was professor first at the Smolensk University and then-
QPlease speak slowly.
A --and then of the Smolensk Pedogogical Institute, and at the same time I was Director of the Smolensk Astronomical Observatory. For twenty years I was the Dean of the Physics and Mathematics Faculty, and in the last years I was deputy of the Director of the Scientific part of the Institute.
QHow many years did you live in Smolensk altogether?
AFrom 1919.
QDo you know what the Katyn Woods was?
AYes.
QP lease speak slowly.
AActually, it was a grove, a clearing in which the inhabitants of Smolensk used to pass their leisure time and holidays.
QWas this forest before the war a special reservation which was fenced or guarded?
ADuring the many years tha t I lived in Smolensk, this place was never fenced, and no restrictions were ever placed on access to it. I personally used to go there very frequently. The last time I was there was in 194- and in the spring of 1941. In this woods there was also a camp for pioneers. Thus, there was free access to this place for everybody.
QP lease tell me in what year there was a pioneer camp?
AAs far as I know, it was there during many years.
THE PRESIDENT:Wait a minute. Professor, will you wait a minute, please? When you see that yellow light go on, it means that you are going too fast, and when you are asked a question, will you pause before you answer it? Do you understand?
THE WITNESS:Yes.
BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
1 July A LJG 16-3
QWill you please repeat your answer, and very slowly, if you please.
AFor the last time I know that the pioneer camp was in the area of the Katyn Woods in 1941.
QConsequently, in 1940 and 1941 before the beginning of the war--and you speak also of the spring of 1941--the Katyn Woods was not a special reservation and was accessible to everybody?
AYes. I say that that was the situation.
QDo you say this as an eye-witness or from hearsay?
A. No, I say that as an eye-witness, who used to go there frequently.
Q.Please tell the Tribunal under what circumstances you became the first deputy of the mayor of Smolensk during the period of the German occupation. Please speak slowly.
A.I was an administrative employee, and I did not have an opportunity of leaving the place in time, since I was busy saving the very precious library of the Institute and the very precious equipment. I had an opportunity, thanks to circumstances, to try to escape only on the 15th in the evening, but I did not succeed in catching the train. I was supposed to leave the city on 16 July in the morning,but during the night of 15 to 16 the city was unexpectedly occupied by German troops. All the bridges across the Dneiper were blown up, and I found myself in captivity.
After a certain time, on 20 July, a group of German soldiers visited the observatory of which I was the Director. They took down that I was the Director and that I was living there and that there was also a professor of physics living in the same building.
In the evening of July 20 two German officers came to me and brought me to headquarters of the unit which had occupied Smolensk. After checking my documents and after a short conversation, they suggested that I become Chief of the city. I refused, basing my refusal on the fact that I was a professor of astronomy and that I had had no experience in such matters and that I could not assume this role. They then declared categorically, "We are going to force the Russian intelligentsia to work."
Q.Thus, if I understand you correctly, the Germans forced you my threats to become the Deputy Mayor of Smolensk?
A.That is not all. They told me also that in a few days I would be summoned to the Kommandantur.
THE PRESIDENT:You are spending a lot of time on how he came to be Mayor of Smolensk.
COLONEL SMIRNOV:Will you please allow me to pass to other questions, Mr. President? Thank you for your observations.
BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
Q.Who was your immediate superior? Who was the Mayor of Smolensk?
A.Michagin.
Q.What were the relations between this man and the German administration and particularly with the German Kommandantur?
A.These relations were established and became closer and closer every day.
Q.Is it correct to say that Michagin was the trustee of the German administration and that they even told him some secret information?
A.Yes.
Q.Do you know that in the vicinity of Smolensk there were Polish prisoners of war?
A.Yes, I do very well.
THE PRESIDENT:I do not know what this is going to prove. You presumably do, but can you not come nearer to the point?
COLONEL SMIRNOV:He said that he knew there were Polish prisoners of war in Smolensk, and with the permission of the Tribunal, I would like to ask the witness what these prisoners of war were doing.
THE PRESIDENT:Very well; go on. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
Q.Please answer. What were the Polish prisoners of war doing in the vicinity of Smolensk, and at what time?
A.In the spring of 1941, and at the beginning of the summer they were working on the restoration of reads.
Q.What do you know about the further fate of the Polish prisoners of war?
A.Thanks to the position that I occupied, I learned about the fate of the Polish prisoners of war very early.
Q.Please tell the Tribunal what you know about it.
A.In view of the fact that in the camp for Russian prisoners of war there was such a regime that prisoners of war were dying by the hundreds every day, I tried to liberate men whenever I had the slightest reason to enter this camp.
I learned that in this camp there was also a very well known pedagogue named Chivlinski.
I asked Michagin to ask the German Kommandantur of Smolensk, and in particular von Schwaetz, and try to liberate Chivlinski from this camp.
Q.Please do not go into detail and do not wast time, but tell the Tribunal about your conversations with Michagin. What did he tell you?
A.Michagin answered my request with, "What is the use? We can save one, but hundreds will die." However, I insisted, and Michagin, after a certain amount of hesitation, agreed to make such a demand upon the German Kommandantur.
Q.Please be short and tell us what Michagin told you about the German Kommandantur.
A Two days later he told me that he was in a bad spot be-
cause of my demand. Von Schwaetz refused him, referring to an instruction from Berlin in establish a very severe regime with respect to prisoners of war.
QWhat did he tell you about Polish prisoners of war?
AAs to Polish prisoners of war, he told me that Russians themselves would die in the camps while there were orders to exterminate the Poles.
QWhat conversation took place between you?
AI answered. I said. "What do you mean? What do you want to say? How do you understand this"? And Michagin answered: "You should understand this in this in the very literal sense of these words. He asked me not to tell anybody about it, since it was a very great secret."
QWhen did this conversation of yours take place with Michagin?
AThis conversation took place at the beginning of September I cannot remember the exact date.
QBut you remember it was the beginning of September?
AYes.
QDid you ever mention once more this fate of Polish prisoners of war in your further conversations with Michagin?
AYes. Two weeks later--that is to say, at the end of September--I could not help asking him, "What was the fate of the Polish prisoners of war?" At first Michagin hesitated, and then he told me, "They have already died. It is over with them."
QDid he tell you where they were killed?
AHe told me that they had been shot in the vicinity of Smolensk.
QDid he Mention has exact place?
ANo, he aid not mention the exact place.
QTell me this. Did you, in turn, tell anybody about the extermination, by Hitlerites, of the Polish prisoners of war near Smolensk?
A I talked about this to Professor Ischimov, who was liv-
ing in the same house with me. In addition to that, a few days later I had a conversation about this with Dr. Nipolski, who was a physician in the city. However, I found out that Nipolski know about this from some other source.
QDid Michagin tell why these shootings took place?
AYes. When he told me of the prisoners of war who were killed, he emphasized once more the necessity of keeping it a secret, in order to prevent disagreeable compromises. He started to explain to me the reasons for the German behavior with respect to the Polish prisoners of war. He pointed out that this was only one link in the chain of the general system of German policy with respect to Polish prisoners of war.
QDid you hear anything about the extermination of the Poles from the employees of the German Kommandatura?
AUes, two or three days later.
THE PRESIDENT:You are both going too fast, and you aren't pausing enough. You are putting your questions whilst the answers are coming through. You must have longer pauses, and go slower.
COLONEL SMIRNOV:Thank you, Mr. President. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
QPlease continue, but slowly.
AI don't know where I was.
QI asked you whether any of the employees of the German Kommandatura told you anything about the extermination of the Poles.
ATwo or three days later, when I visited the office of Michagin, I found there an interpreter from the Seventh Division of the German Kommandateur who was in charge of the Russian Administration, and who had a conversation with Michagin concerning the, Poles. He was a German from the country.
QPerhaps you can tell us quickly what he said.
AWhen I entered the room he said: "The Poles are not a valuable nation, and their extermination may serve for the widening of living space for the German Nation." However, he said it in a very general form.
QDid you hear about the concrete fact of the shooting and the extermination of the Polish prisoners of war?
THE PRESIDENT:You are doing exactly what I said just now. You are asking the questions before the translation comes through.
COLONEL SMIRNOV:Excuse me, Mr. President, I will try to speak more slowly. BY COLONEL SMIRNOV:
QDid you hear about the shooting of Polish prisoners of war near Smolensk? You heard it from Michagin and he, in turn, heard it from von Schwaetz. Is that true?
AWhen I entered the room I heard the conversation with Hirschfeld. I missed the beginning, but from the context of the conversation it was clear that they spoke about this event.
QDid Michagin tell you about the shooting of Polish prison ers of war, referring to the Commandant, von Schwaetz?
AYes; as far as my impression goes, he referred to von Schwaetz. But--and this is my deep conviction--he had conversation, about it with private persons in the Kommandatura.
QWhen did Machagin tell you that Polish prisoners of war were killed near Smolensk?
AIt was at the end of September.
COLONEL SMIRNOV:I have no further questions to put to this witness, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT:The Tribunal will adjourn.
(A recess was taken.)