Q. Did you, as Pohl's personal assistant, have the right to make independent decisions?
A. No.
Q. Were you, as the personal assistant, given tasks by Pohl in his capacity as a Main Office Chief or Office Group Chief?
A. No.
Q. Were you also Pohl's adjutant?
A. No; Pohl had two adjutants; when he was overworked he even had three adjutants, and so, therefore, I was not concerned with those tasks which dealt with official business.
Q. Did you deputize for Pohl? I ask you this question because the Prosecution has asserted that you did.
A. In no way, at no time. I was only a Hauptsturmfuehrer; I could hardly deputize for a commanding General. Only a General could do that.
Q. Did you advise Pohl in matters concerned with the medical experiments?
A. No; as far as medical experiments were concerned, and concentration camp matters, Pohl never talked to me. Our relations were not those which a private secretary usually has, who is completely initiated in everything. I was handling his private matters. Pohl was a man like that. He is, first of all an extremely reserved man, and he is not the man with whom you make close contact very easily. He was disinclined to talk with me or any other assistants about tasks which were not part of the definite circle of duties of the man concerned. Also, Pohl was busy seeing people all day long. He dictated his letters himself, as the documents show. Therefore, I only had a few minutes to talk to him about his private matters. I always had to be very brief and quick in discussing his personal matters with him.
Socially speaking, I never had any relations with Pohl. I went to his house once or twice in order to see his wife about the tutelage problems.
Q. Did you, as Pohl's personal assistant, have to handle any concentration camp matters?
A. No; the handling of concentration camp matters was not within my competence. As his personal assistant, I was not part of Office Group D.
Q. I am referring you now to Document 4079. Will you please take up that document?
Does that document not show the exact opposite?
A. I am afraid I haven't got the document.
Q. It is a document which was submitted to Baier on cross-examination.
A. This was put to Baier on "cross". It says, I shall read the document aloud first:
"Today I discussed the request of the Deutsche Schieferoel GMBH with SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Sommer and asked him to assign 79 men to Erzingen --"
THE PRESIDENT: It should have an exhibit number if it was submitted to Baier.
DR. GAWLIK: If Your Honor please, I believe it is Exhibit 593. That is what we put down on our document.
It is Exhibit 593, if Your Honor please.
THE PRESIDENT: We have it, Dr. Gawlik.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Please continue.
A. This document shows that I have been telling the truth. The transfer of those 79 men had to be caused by Sturmbannfuehrer Harbohm. By orders of Pohl, I merely discussed the inquiry by the German Slate Oil Company with Hauptsturmfuehrer Sommer, whom I could phone there.
Sommer was not competent for this. Late in the evening, between seven and eight, Sommer said that he would pass the order on to Sturmbannfuehrer Harbohm. Therefore, I was purely Pohl's messenger boy in this matter.
Q. Did you take part in the conferences of the commandants?
A. No.
Q. Please take Document NO-2327, which is Exhibit 35, in Book 3, on page 109 of the English Document Book. Is this document essentially correct?
Volume 3.
A. This document is correct only in part. I was never in the Buchenwald concentration camp. Once, at the Weimar railroad station, which is a distance of about eight kilometers from Buchenwald, I phoned and asked them to give me a car to go to Erfurt where I wanted to see my sister-in-law. The road was impossible, and, therefore, Pister, the commandant, must have made a mistake here. As far as the first sentence is concerned, that I took part in the commandants' meetings, I have to say this: The conferences of the commandants consisted first of all of a social evening with Pohl--in which I never took part. Pister, as far as I can remember, saw me once or twice in Pohl's ante chamber and greeted me there when the commandants came in.
Secondly, the actual meetings of the commandants took place in Oranienburg. They were under the chairmanship, as far as I know, of Gruppenfuehrer Gluecks; who took part in these meetings, I don't know. I assume it must have been the office chiefs of Office Group D, and the commandants. Very probably this document is not very clearly formulated in German when it says, "Pister saw me at the meetings of the commandants."
I think what it should say is, "Pister has seen me on the occasion of the commandants' meetings." Otherwise, my counsel will submit several documents about that.
Q. Did you ever visit concentration camps?
A. I never entered a protective custody camp.
Q Please take Document NO-1030, which is Exhibit 62 in Document Book III on page 74. This is a letter by Mummenthey commenting on Flossenburg. Mummenthey says in this letter, and I shall quote, "SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Volk does not yet know Flossenburg and he would like to go there."
THE PRESIDENT: What is the exhibit number, please?
DR. GAWLIK: 62, if Your Honors please.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q I shall quote from this letter. "SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Volk does not yet know Flossenburg and wants to get to know it. We shall on Monday, the 5th of July, arrive at 1525 in the afternoon in Weiden." Were you in Weiden on that day?
A Yes.
Q What did you do in Weiden?
AAt Weiden we inspected the Messerschmitt Aircraft Works in Flossenburg.
DR. GAWLIK: If Your Honors please, I have drawn a sketch here of Flossenburg Camp and the Messerschmitt plant. May I submit that to the court in order to clear up this point?
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Were the Messerschmitt Works located on the site of the concentration camp?
A No.
Q Perhaps you can explain the sketch to the court.
A To the south you have the village of Flossenburg. Down at the bottom the main street goes through Flossenburg and at the cross roads there is a church to the right, or, to the northeast, the road leads to the concentration camp and northwest it turns around to the Messerschmitt Works, or what used to be formerly the administration office of the DEST. You see, first of all, the administration office of the DEST. Behind that you have various work shops. The first one is the one we inspected.
I shall explain later on what the conditions were. The main street turns off to the southeast. There is the concentration camp, or, rather, the actual area of the commandant's offices starts between the Messerschmitt Works or the site of the DEST and the Commandant's office. There is a street which connects them. We drove through Flossenburg by car in a northwesterly direction. We did not pass the Commandant's office at all.
Q What was the distance between the Messerschmitt Works and the concentration camp?
A I should say, roughly, one kilometer, I can't tell you exactly.
Q Were inmates working in the Messerschmitt Works?
A Yes.
Q Please describe to the court your visit to the Messerschmitt Works.
Q The visit lasted for about half an hour, or, perhaps, twenty minutes. We walked through the plant, Mummenthey and I. I remember at one bench where inmates were working, the foreman was explaining what the inmates were doing. He was wearing overalls on which it said, "ME" which stood for Messerschmitt. I asked him at the end of the inspection what the food was like and I was told that the inmates, apart from their legitimate rations, were given heavy workers' rations and a special additional ration, a ration for workers who worked on aircraft production, a so-called fighter addition. After that conversation I left Mummenthey and the foreman in order to look at what was going on at the various benches. I approached an inmate and wanted to talk to him. At a distance of about three or four meters, there was as SS man as a guard. He came up to me and said this verbatim: "Hauptsturmfuehrer," he said, "It is strictly forbidden to talk privately to inmates." I thereupon walked up to Mummenthey and told him this incident. I asked him whether this was true. Mummenthey said it was allowed only to speak to inmates about business matters. We continued our walk through the work shop and left the works, and I went on alone to Karlsbad.
We were in a hurry. We had to do some negotiating and on that evening I had to be back in Berlin, because Pohl was expected back from his official trip.
Q Were the Messerschmitt Works part of the DEST?
A I am unable to tell you that for certain, but I believe I can remember today that it was simply part of the Messerschmitt Works which had been evacuated to the DEST ground. I assume that from the fact that all the foremen, the civilian foremen, were wearing overalls with the letters "ME", which stands for Messerschmitt.
THE PRESIDENT: When did you visit Flossenburg?
THE WITNESS: In 1943, the middle of 1943.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q When you visited the Messerschmitt Works in Flossenburg, were you able to gain any insight into the conditions of the actual concentration camp?
A No, there was no connection between the Works and the camp. I assume that the inmates who worked there were transported at an early hour of the morning to the works and back in the evening.
Q Was this an official or private visit?
A I assume, as far as Mummenthey was concerned, it was an official visit. I went privately.
Q Now please comment on the contents of the document. Is it correct that you wanted to get to know the concentration camp Flossenburg?
A No, I did not want to get to know the concentration camp.
Q Did you express any such wish to Mummenthey?
A No.
Q What wish did you express to Mummenthey?
A I wanted to get to know the aircraft plant. On the day in question, I was en route to Karlsbad and I asked Mummenthey what was the best way to go to Karlsbad, as the rail connections from Berlin to Karlsbad, were deplorable. Mummenthey told me that he had to inspect the Messerschmitt Works in Flossenburg.
If I would like, I could go along with him and he would see to it that the same car which would take us from Weiden to Flossenburg would take us to Karlsbad. As I had heard from Hummenthey, Office W-I had been working together with Messerschmitt, I had an official interest in how aircraft production was done, and I expressed this wish to Mummenthey.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take a recess, Dr. Gawlik.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, I shall now submit a drawing concerning the dwellings, that is the buildings of the WVHA.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Witness, will you explain this drawing to the Tribunal, particularly the position of your office, and also the position of Herr Pohl's office?
A Mr. Defense Counsel, may I point out a mistake which occurred to me before. Mr. President asked me about the exhibit number of a letter, and that was Document NO-1290, and he wanted to know whether the date in the German Document Book, or the English Document Book was correct. I made a mistake; the date on the English Document Book is correct, and the one on the German Document Book is wrong.
Q What document book is that?
A It is contained in Document Book No. 3. and it is on page 15 of the German.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, this is NO--1290, Exhibit No. 60.
THE PRESIDENT: It should be January and not November?
A In the German Document Book it shows 22 November 1943. This date in the German Document Book is wrong , and the one on the English Document Book is correct.
THE PRESIDENT: The letter was written on 22 January and received on the 30 January?
THE WITNESS: I don't know, you see. In my German Document Book I noted "wrong date", after having compared it with the photostatic copy. I still don't know which one of the two dates is the correct one.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, may I during the noon recess try to get the photostatic copy and submit the correct photostatic copy?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: I shall now explain the drawing. As I stated before, those are the offices of Herr Pohl in 1944, after an air raid had already damaged the house. The house was one story higher at the beginning, and later on it was rebuilt the way it is in this drawing. As I stated before, that was the office where I was closest to Pohl. You can see five windows there some place, and that is where Pohl was sitting, and it is on the east side of the building. I was on the second floor, and on the eastern side of the building you have Dr. Volk on one side, and Dr. Pohl on the other side. I shall now explain to you the offices. The entrance was from the north, where it said "Chief Office". That was the entrance. One went through there and turned to the left, and on the right-hand side of the hall you can find the door, and through that you can get into the adjutant's office. The adjutant was sitting there and also a duty officer. Going on a little bit further you reach another door, which is Pohl's Office. When going from the adjutant's office towards the south, you reach another corridor, whereupon you turn right and you go straight ahead until you arrive at the secretary's office. On the eastern side of the secretary's office were the chief files, we had the secret files there. From his office Herr Pohl could also get out of his office, and go straight to the secretary's office without going through the adjutant's office. There was no passage out of the room without going through the adjutant's office. There was a door there, but that door was always kept under lock. It was always locked. Now Herr Pohl also issued an order that nobody was to go and see the secretary, but there was danger that even if you could go through the adjutant's office without Pohl noticing it, if the adjutant would let one go on through , there was a, constant danger that Herr Pohl could surprise somebody in the secretary's office. That was the reason why it was not possible to go and see the secretary, and the secretary had all secret letters in this folder and chief file, which carried the letters "PO/HA" Miss Hausbeck."
That was Pohl's office position.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Where was this building located in Berlin, with respect to where the Luftwaffe Building was located?
THE WITNESS: The Luftwaffe Building? That building was entirely separated from the Air Ministry. No part of a branch of the Luftwaffe was in the same building.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: I did not ask you that. I am asking you where the building was located, and in relation to where the building of the Luftwaffe was located. How near or how far apart were they?
THE WITNESS: I am afraid the translation came through wrong, that is the reason I did not understand that. The question was, if I understood you correctly, how far was the Luftwaffe Building distant from the WVHA building. Is that what you want to know?
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Yes.
THE WITNESS: You see, Mr. Federal Judge, the building which was once close to the Luftwaffe Ministry - - now, let's see, what part of the Luftwaffe was -
JUDGE PHILLIPS: The Luftwaffe Building was the Wannsee. Where was this building located in relation to that building?
THE WITNESS: Now if Mr. Federal Judge, you are referring to Amtsgruppe-C, then Amtsgruppe -C was opposite of that side right across from there. Amtsgruppe-C, however, was not part of the Air Ministry. It was a special staff of Kammler's and the special staff of Kammler's was an entirely different building compound. It was not within the block of WVHA. Where it was, I don't know, either. For a certain period of time, I believe, it was in the private villa of Dr. Kammler's, and all the experts. As a part of that staff, I could not tell you for sure. Anyway, according to my opinion they were in the Air Ministry.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: All right. Go ahead.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, this drawing concerning Flossenburg will receive the exhibit number Volk's No. 2, and this drawing concerning WVHA is to receive Volk's No. 3, as an exhibit number.
MR. ROBBINS: If the Tribunal please, I believe before these drawings should be received in evidence, the witness should identify them by saying who drew them, and whether or not they are correct in his opinion.
DR. GAWLIK: I shall now ask the question.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Now, Herr Dr. Volk, are these drawings correct. Do they depict the positions and places where they were located correctly?
THE WITNESS: I made these drawings of Flossenburg by heart, to my best knowledge and belief. I could not tell you anything else about that. The drawing about the offices is correct as to that, it could not be any different.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Prior to recess, Witness, we were talking about your visit near Flossenburg. Did you have enough authority to visit concentration camps?
A No, a special permission was necessary for that.
Q Who issued authority to visit concentration camps?
A So far as I know Herr Pohl and Herr Gluecks.
Q. Did you at any time receive such authority?
A No.
Q Did you at any time ask for such authority?
A No. Because I had nothing to do with concentration camp matters. At least, in an official capacity.
Q I shall now come to a discussion on Document NO-1914 -- NO-1914to 1916, Exhibits Nos. 395 to 397, in Document Book XIV, pages 62 to 68 of the German and pages 65 to 69 of the English Document Books. The documents deal with negotiations about the Schlackenwerk factory in Linz.
Was that Schlackenwerk factory in Linz controlled either by the WVHA or the DWB in a supervisory capacity?
A The Schlackenwerks in Linz was a part of the Hermann Goering Works, and they in turn were a part of the Hermann Goering concern. That concern was a Reich Company, which was under the supervisory authority of the agency for the Four Year Plan.
Q According to Document No. 1914, Exhibit No. 395. on the 6 August 1942 you participated in a conference, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q In what capacity did you participate in that conference?
A I participated in that conference as the man in charge of the legal department of Staff-W.
Q What was your task during that conference, Witness?
AAs a lawyer I was to participate in that conference, because contracts were to be submitted to the Hermann Goering Works.
Q What was the purpose of that conference, Witness?
A The conclusion of a contract concerning the delivery of burnt coal.
Q This Document No. NO-1914, Exhibit No. 395, does it describe the results of the conferences correctly?
A It seems that the document describes the results correctly. However, I shall have to add that prior to that conference I knew nothing about the subject of the conference. I was not informed. Even during the conference I could not quite understand what it was all about. I started to work upon conclusion of our contracts I had to check up on the legal contents of the contract.
Q And how far did you at all participate in that conference?
A I only listened to them, that is all. I could not participate because I knew nothing about the subject to be dealt with in advance. If the Economic parties had agreed in all respects, then I would have come into action. Then, of course, I would have had a conference with all the lawyers of Hermann Goering's Works, and I would have drawn up the results of the conference in a legal manner.
However, I never did do that, we never did get that far.
Q.- Who was it that would be competent for the increase in inmate labor provided for in this document.
A.- Office Group D would be responsible for that. To be more specific - Office D II.
Q.- Did you have to make a decision here in this connection?
A.- No, I didn't.
Q.- What was the reason that you participated in the further conferences, which according to Document No. 1915 and 1916, Exhibits 396 and 397, contained in Document Book 14, on page 67 and the following pages of the German Document Book, and page 68 and 69 of the English Document Book, took place on the 30th of July and 25th of September, 1942. Apparently you did not participate in all those enumerated conferences, did you?
A.- All these conferences dealt with purely economic matters, namely about the negotiations for the delivery of burnt coal and inmate allocation. However, I was not competent for the decision in that field. That was the reason why I was no longer invited to participate in those conference.
Q.- What was the reason for your writing the letter of the 15th of August, 1942 which is contained in Document No. 1915, Exhibit 396, in Document Book 14, on page 66 of the German and 68 of the English Document Book?
A.- What the reason was for writing that letter I could not tell you today. I assume, however, that Herr Pohl told me I was to inform Mummenthey and all the other persons listes in this document - namely, that Dr. Hohberg was the leading personality there. That could have been done by telephone, but I thought it would be much better to send out the order in writing so that later nobody could excuse himself by saying he was not informed by me. The persons contained in that letter were dictated to me by Herr Pohl.
Q.- What was the result of the conference with the Schlackenwerk in Linz?
A.- I heard nothing further about the entire matter. I no longer participated in working out or setting up any future contracts. That was the reason I couldn't tell you if any contracts were signed at all and if these contracts were drawn up by one of the lawyers of an affiliated company. It was only in this trial that I heard, from the document which was mentioned before, that Herr Pohl wanted to look through the contracts personally, wanted to draw them up himself. That is shown at the top of the document. That was the reason why the contracts were no longer sent to me.
Q.- Did any labor allocation take place in the Schlackenworks in Linz?
A.- I know nothing about it.
Q.- Did you, as a personal expert of Herr Pohl, help Herr Pohl when taking care of matters in his capacity as Main Office Chief, and did you have to consult with him?
A.- No.
Q.- Who did that, witness?
A.- Herr Pohl had his office groups chiefs to do that, and in the W offices he had his office chiefs and Chief W.
Q.- Is it correct, therefore, to say that you, as the prosecution alleged, were the personal consultant and assistant of Pohl?
A.- Yes, I was the personal consultant of Herr Pohl, but only in his purely private matters. My activity cannot be considered the activity of an assistant of the Main Office Chief and Chief of WVHA.
Q.- Did you, based on your activity as expert on certain private matters, gain any knowledge of those things and matters which Pohl had to deal with as Main Office Chief?
A.- No, I could not gain an insight into the files. The secret files, as I stated before, were taken care of by the secretary.
No one was permitted to enter the secretary's office. As I stated before, you could only enter that office by going through the adjutant's office.
Q.- Did Herr Pohl, at any time, discuss the happenings in concentration camps with you?
A.- No, Herr Pohl absolutely refused to speak with me about other things which were not part of my field of tasks and which did not concern me directly. As I stated before he absolutely refused to do so not only with me but all the other office chiefs as I heard again and again.
Q.- Now, take a look at Document No. 1915, Exhibit 396, Document Book 14, page 66 of the German and page 68 of the English document book. You wrote that letter as a personal assistant of Herr Pohl's, didn't you? Isn't that in contrast with the statement you made before that you did not act as personal referent of Herr Pohl for official matters, but only for personal matters?
A.- As I stated before, I also wrote small letters which concerned the internal inner-office communications and I wrote those letters and sent them out while using the terms "personal referent". That is only within the building because, of course, there were cases when I went in to see Herr Pohl and he told me to inform this or that agency within the building of this or that. For instance, with this letter, everybody was to be informed that all agencies were to contact Herr Dr. Hohberg. Of course, I couldn't tell him this was none of my business, but most of the time, those were things which the adjutant could just as well have taken care of, but apparently since there were few experts he took the nearest person. I was a conscripted SS officer and I couldn't very well tell a general that was none of my business. I probably would have received a hard direct order to that effect and probably would have had to do it anyway.
Q.- After you had been appointed personal referent were you still a member of Staff W?A.- Yes.
Q.- Were you still a Prokurist of DWB?
A.- Yes.
Q.- What influence did you appointment to a personal referent have with reference to your activity in DWB and with Staff W?
A.- For a while I had the activity of a personal referent - that is to say, a secretary - and had so much to do there that I couldn't deal very much with the legal matters of Staff W. That was the reason I had to leave most of my work to my deputy and I also gave him a special field of tasks.
Q.- Now, witness, take a look at Document No. 1280, Exhibit 450, contained in Document Book # 16 on page 90 of the German and page 90 of the English document books. According to this document you, in the month of March, 1942, were promoted to the Prokurist of the Klinker Works Cement G.M.B.H. Is that statement correct?
A.- Yes.
Q.- Who were the members of the company of Klinker Works Cement G.m.b.h.?
A.- The German economic enterprise G,m,b,h, was the only member of the company.
Q.- What tasks did the Klinker Cement G.m.b.h. have?
A.- The company had the task to administrate plants for construction material.
THE PRESIDENT: What document book, please?
DR. GAWLIK: 16. It is on page 90, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: And the document number?
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q.- The document number is 1280, Exhibit # 450, contained in Document book 16. What were the reasons for your having been appointed a Prokurist of that company?
A.- The shares of the cement factory were to be purchased. The only person who had the right to represent that G.m.b.h., as a business manager, was Dr. Bobermin. As two partners were to participate during the negotiations, I was appointed a Prokurist.
Q.- How long did you remain a Prokurist with that company, witness?
A.- I only participated in that one negotiation as a Prokurist. Possibly, there was another negotiation which I cannot recall at the moment. At the end of the negotiations I carried on no further activity with that company and I had no longer the title of Prokurist.
Q.- During that time when you were Prokurist of the Klinker Cement G.m.b.h. were any inmates used in that enterprise or in any of the factories of the affiliated companies?
A.- No.
Q.- I shall now speak about Document NO-2176, which is Exhibit number 402, contained in Document Book No. 14, on page 104 of the German and page 115 of the English Document Book. That is NO-2176, Exhibit 402, Your Honor. It is at page 115 of the English Document Book No. 14.
Witness, were you business manager of the Gemeinnuetzige Wohnungs und Heimstraetten GmBH?
A.- Yes, I was.
Q.- What kind of a company was it, witness?
A.- It was a public company which had the same legal form as the GmBH.
Q.- Herr Doctor, what was your position in that company?
A.- Business manager.
Q.- What other parts of the company were there?
A.- A supervisory council was there which, according to German law, is very seldom in a GmBH, but the Gmbh can be permitted to have a supervisory council. The following people were in the supervisory council. The president of the supervisory council, Herr Pohl; deputy, Herr Loerner, and Dr. Kammler was another member of the supervisory council.
Q.- What was the purpose of that company?
A.- The purpose of that company was to build dwellings, to purchase them, and administer them.
Q.- What was your activity as business manager, witness?
A.- As can be seen from this document, the company had dwellings with 145 buildings, one business enterprise and several restaurants. My activity was to administer those buildings. As far as I can recall, I didnot buy any pieces of land. In any case, to be more exact about it, I would like to add that it was quite impossible that I still would have to sign this or that for some pieces of land that had been purchased there. My activity was limited, as I stated before, to the administration of the already existing pieces of land.
Q.- What was the reason for your appointment to business manager?
A.- I was appointed as business manager because my predecessor, Dr. Salpeter, prior to me, was in charge of the company, although Mummenthey was the business manager, had acted against the legal regulations and purchased large pieces of land for the company, too. The company, according to the community regulations, could only purchase pieces of land of a certain size, purchase them and build them up. Those were supposed to be pieces of land up to 100 square meters. My defense counsel will introduce the prevailing legal regulations in my document book.
Now, I was to tune up the piece of land of the company according to the legal regulations which prevailed at the time. This was necessary because the auditor, Dr. Hohberg, had no right to aduit the company's books according to the community law and all the other regulations which resulted from this community law the Reich Labor Minister had established, a certain association of auditors which had been prescribed by him for auditing work. The company, a public company, had certain privileges as far as taxation was concerned. Now, if the company did not comply with the prevailing regulations, then it was fined a certain amount with reference to the tax. It has to pay for all the taxes which they hadn't paid in a long time. In most of these cases, they became bankrupt.
THE PRESIDENT: You remember on Friday you explained at considerable length the difference between a business manager and a prokurist.
A.- Yes, indeed.
THE PRESIDENT: We understood you to say that you had never been a business manager, but only a prokurist. Did you say that?
A.- If I used those terms literally, I couldn't tell you, Your Honor, but what I meant to say I was never a business manager of the DWB GmBH, you see.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, Was this Home Building Company, House and Home building Company, the only one that you were ever business manager of, the only company?