Q. Was the piece of land ever purchased at all on which the protective custody camp was located?
A. I don't know. I had nothing to do with that. Nor did I work too much on that. That was up to A/III, the legal office as I explained on Friday.
Q. Was the piece of land outside the protective custody camp ever purchased on which the school was located?
A. No, for this one should look at Document NO 2157 which is in Volume 14. According to that document, one can see.......
Q. (Interrupting) If Your Honors please, it is Exhibit 388.
A. Under German law, a piece of land is only purchased after it has been entered into the registry, but the document also shows that this entry had not yet been made two and a half years later. I shall quote from this document:
"On 31 March 1944, together with Senior Ranger Neumann, representative of the Reich Forestry Administration, I had the certificate of transfer written out before the Local Court in Tiegenhof and filed a petition for entry."
He only made the petition, in other words.
"Unfortunately the entry will be delayed as:
"1. the Reich Forest Administration had not yet obtained the necessary official permit for the sales contract, and as "2. contrary to the prior statement of the Forestry Office, the Nehrungen Forest land register, volume 1, page 1, is not compiled by the Tiegenhof County Court, but by Danzig County Court.
The real estate dealt with in volume 1, page 1, extends over 70 km and is subject to the jurisdiction of three county courts. Only the parcel of land acquired by us can be separated and entered into a particular page of the land register. Senior Forest Ranger Neumann promised to speed up the affair. I shall make inquiries occasionally."
THE PRESIDENT: Who wrote Exhibit 388? Who signed it?
A. SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Hoffmann.
I should also like to point out that the piece of land cost us 50,000 Reichsmarks with woods thereon, and this becomes clear from the same document on page 41 of the German text. From that price and from the fact that it was only one separate piece of land it becomes quite clear that the negotiations were concerned only with that part of the land where the school was located, not the site of the concentration camp or the price also would have been much higher.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. I shall now come to a different chapter in your activities, where we are concerned with the period of time from the foundation of the WVHA until you became a personal assistant to Pohl. When was the WVHA founded?
A. On 3 March 1942.
Q. What organizational changes did this entail?
A. As far as the economic enterprises were concerned, no changes resulted.
Q. Was there any change in the tasks and duties of the DWB through the foundation of the WVHA?
A. No.
Q. Any change in your duties and activities as the Prokurist of the DWB?
A. No.
Q. After the foundation of WVHA did you merely work on questions of civil law?
A. Yes.
Q. Through the foundation of WVHA did the DWB become part of the SS?
A. No, the DWB remained in the same hands in which it had been before.
Q. Were there any changes in the business policy of the DWB?
A. As far as I can judge, no.
Q. Why were the W offices concentrated in Office Group W?
A. Pohl did not want to have to deal with fifty different managers and legal persons. He wanted to deal with eight to twelve because it would not have been practicable otherwise. He had four office groups and economic enterprises. Therefore, he created the W Offices in order to have better coordination of the concern. They were not offices in the sense of government departments.
Q. Were there any changes, after the foundation of WVHA, in your duties as the legal assistant of Staff W?
A. No.
Q. Were there any changes in the duties of Staff W?
A. No.
Q. Did the foundation of WVHA lead to any changes in the allocation of inmates and the working conditions in the concerns of W enterprises?
A. As far as I could judge, no.
Q. What influence did the DWB or Staff W have, after the foundation of WVHA, on the labor allocation of inmates and the conditions under which they worked?
A. Just as little as they had before.
Q. Did Staff W, after the foundation of WVHA, have the task to purchase sites for the establishment of concentration camps, to evaluate them and to find them?
A. No, those tasks were always part of Office A III/2. I wanted to say on Friday that Office A III was not under the charge of Gruppenfuehrer Frank as the chart on the wall says, but under somebody else as a legal expert. As I remember it, Frank only was in charge for one or two months. Gruppenfuehrer Frank was a General and had no idea about legal matters.
Q. Did Staff W, after the foundation of WVHA, have the task to collaborate with Office Group D?
A. No, that was not the task of Office Group W.
Q. How far did you, as a member of Staff W or as the Prokurist of the DVB, after the foundation of WVHA, collaborate with Office Group D?
A. I did not collaborate with Office Group D.
Q. Please take Document NO 1290........
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. (Interrupting) I want to ask the witness one question.
When was DWB established? What year, do you know?
A. I believe, in 1940, but I am not absolutely certain because, at that time, I was not yet with Staff W.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Please take Document NO 1290, which is Exhibit 60, in volume 3, on page 64 of the English Document book.
The Prosecution, when they offered this document, pointed out that this letter to the various commandants of concentration camps was also addressed to Office Group W, and they added that this represented a liaison between Office Group D and Office Group W and the W industries. Why was that letter of 22 November 1943 sent to Staff W?
THE PRESIDENT: What date did you put in the record?
INTERPRETER: 22 November 1943.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you talking about Exhibit 60?
INTERPRETER: Yes, we are.
THE PRESIDENT: Our copy bears the date 22 January 1943.
INTERPRETER: It should be November.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Robbins, which of these dates is right? The first of the documents says: "Oranienburg, 22 January 1943". Later it says: "Mail received 30 November 1943."
MR. ROBBINS: I'm very sorry. I seem to have left my Book 3 in my office. I will check on it at the recess.
THE WITNESS: If Your Honors please, I checked that on the photostat copy and the date in the English book is wrong. The correct date should be 22 November 1943.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
WITNESS: From this document, no collaboration can be construed because this order was only sent for informative purposes to W. Informative purposes do not amount to collaboration. It merely means that enterprises and offices are being informed which are not actually concerned with this. If that order from Pohl was also sent to Staff W and to the W offices it would not have been submitted to W and to W offices for informative purposes, but directly. Collaboration would also entail that Staff W, in some form or other, would have been instrumental in drawing up the order. This again is not the case which becomes quite clear from the file note "B II".
Q. Can you make a statement on why this letter of 22 November 1943 was sent to W for informative purposes?
A. The letter was sent for informative purposes to the W offices for them to know how long inmates were allowed to work in their enterprises because the enterprises also had civilian employees, and the work done by the inmates and the civilian employees had to concurr. I am bound to assume that similar letters were sent to the private industries which were not under the supervision of the WVHA, so that they would know how long inmates were working for them.
Q. I shall now speak about the next period of time in your service. When you were appointed a personal consultant to Pohl, when did you receive this appointment?
A. At the beginning or middle of May 1942. I am not quite sure of the precise date. Pohl did not want his purely personal matters known all over the office. For that reason, he felt that they should be dealt with only by one single person. I was also to handle Pohl's personal and private matters. A legal expert was needed because a number of legal matters would crop up. Those were the reasons why I was appointed to that position.
Q. What did you do -
THE PRESIDENT: One moment, please. Will the interpreter refer to Exhibit 60, please?
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Yes. We do not have the document, we only have the translation. We are just getting it. I have the document now.
THE PRESIDENT: That is Document 1290?
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Yes, it is.
THE PRESIDENT: The English translation -- just after the address in which the W Offices are listed -- reads: "Message to". Do you see what I mean?
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Yes, I do, sir.
THE PRESIDENT: "Message to Chief, Office W-1,..." and so on.
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Yes, I've got that.
THE PRESIDENT: We are interested in the translation "message to". Is that an accurate translation, does it have any other meaning or possibility?
INTERPRETER KURTZ: I think it should perhaps read "for the information of ". That would be a better translation, I feel.
THE PRESIDENT: All right, thank you.
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: When Pohl appointed you as his personal representative in May 1942, did he outline in writing your duties?
A. No, he only told me orally.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Herr Volk, what were your duties as Pohl's personal assistant?
A. As I said before, I had to handle all private matters of Pohl and those of his family. Also, I had to submit documents for internal circulation which were signed by Pohl as the Main Office Chief. As far as private matters are concerned, I wish to give the Tribunal a brief survey so that the term "personal assistant" (referent) will be correctly understood. For instance, I had to check up on his private bank accounts; I had to remind him of regular payments, his life insurance, for instance; thirdly, I had to remind him of salaries to be paid to him; I had to draw up his annual tax declarations; I had to draw up his will; I had to deal with matters for Pohl's administration of property and money from his first marriage. That type of work took up a large part of my time. As time went on, the circle of people who wanted legal advise grew, demands and requests by relatives and friends who needed legal advise as the war expanded were referred to me. One came along, for instance, and said that his servant girl had been taken away from him. Somebody else said, "My factory is going to be closed." The third had difficulty with the tax authorities. As time went on this work grow to such an extent that it would have fully occupied a solicitor's office.
Then there was those who wanted help, wives of SS men who had been called up, and widows of dead SS men, people who had been bombed out. They were all referred to me. I was to help them all. That was the order which Pohl gave me. He could not receive everybody because he was working from morning until night. These visitors took so much of my time that I could not start on my own work until 4 or 5 o'clock in the afternoon. It was a particularly difficult task because if I did not succeed with the best of intentions to help people, the Sword of Damocles was suspended over me in that these people might go and complain to Pohl about me.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: May I ask a question, please? Witness, this may not be of too much importance, but I am curious just to know the location of your office physically with reference to Pohl's office. Were you actually within the walls of his office or next to it?
A. If Your Honor please, for that purpose I drew a little picture which perhaps my lawyer could submit to you. I made a very bad drawing, not as good as I could have done, namely, the one where I am nearest to Pohl. If you please, my attorney could submit the drawing to you. I was in the same house, but on a different floow. I can explain the drawing. It is important for the reason it shows how keen Pohl was for keeping everything secret.
THE PRESIDENT: I'd like to see it, please.
A. If I may say something about this. This was the location in which I was working in 1944. In 1942, I was three floors above Pohl's office. In 1943, I was a distance of roughly about two hundred meters from Pohl's office, and I'd have to walk across the street for 200 meters until I reached Unter Den Eichen. If I had my drawing back, I could explain it to the Court, how the offices of Pohl were located and where the secret files were situated. Unfortunately, I haven't got the drawing with me, or otherwise, I could do it right away.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Was this a very large building, the one which is depicted in that sketch?
A. Yes, that is the end of this very large building. The whole building was about 300 meters long. It comprised two whole streets. The building went from Unter Den Eichen 126 through 135, and then adjoining there was Schloss Strasse 62 through 65.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Was all of the WVHA with the exception of AmtsGruppe D located in this structure?
A. I can't give you a uniform answer to this question. One must make a difference between the various years. The building was frequently bombed in the war. In 1942 Pohl intended to have all offices in that building, but the WVHA in 1942 expanded with the result that we were short of space all the time; and therefore, the least important offices were located somewhere else, but on the first of March 1943, and in August '43, and in April '44, the building was heavily damaged in an air-raid, the economic enterprises were transferred to the outside. W-VIII went to Kranichfeld, W-I to Oranienburg, W-II was no longer in Berlin anyway, but in Posen since 1940. Office W-III was transferred to Wannsee, a suburb, and so was W-IV. W-V was taken to Mecklenburg, W-VI was looked after by the Office Chief of B-II. They were always in the same building.
Pohl later on only kept Staff W in the house, and Office Group A-- some of it at least -- and Office Group B. Office Group C was transferred also because SS Obergruppenfuehrer Dr. Kammler wanted to lead a life of his own. From the beginning he was very ambitious and one could see at that time that his aim was to be in charge of a Main Office of his own. He wanted Himmler to establish a Main Office Construction, which is the reason why he always had these many special orders such as V-2 and Aircraft Production from Minister Speer.
That was, roughly, the development, if Your Honor please.
Q. Did the Inspectorate Always remain in Oranienburg?
A. The Inspectorate in Oranienburg, when it became Office Group D always remained in Oranienburg. It had its own building there. There was never an office chief or a part of Office Group D in our building; nor did we ever hear of anything of Office Group D in Berlin. We had, it is true, our own teletype machine in Berlin, but Office Group D had a different teletype which was not connected with us but with the RSHA, and Office Group D, furthermore, had its own wireless network which connected it with the RSHA.
We in Berlin did not have a network of our own.
Now, if I may explain to the Tribunal -
BY DR. GAWLIK: (Counsel for defendant Volk)
Q. Just a moment, if Your Honors please, could we perhaps do that after the recess. I have the other plans outside of the courtroom. I shall obtain them during the recess and then submit them to the Court.
The term "personal assistant" or "referent" -- was that a correct designation for your work?
A. No.
Q. What would have been a better term?
A. A better term would have been "secretary." By a personal assistant, or a referent, I understand a man who is present whenever the chief makes a decision, including all the tasks of Office Groups A, B, C, and D; but I was never present when matters pertaining to Office Groups A, B, C, and D were dealt with.
Q. Did you, as Pohl's personal assistant, have the right to make independent decisions?
A. No.
Q. Were you, as the personal assistant, given tasks by Pohl in his capacity as a Main Office Chief or Office Group Chief?
A. No.
Q. Were you also Pohl's adjutant?
A. No; Pohl had two adjutants; when he was overworked he even had three adjutants, and so, therefore, I was not concerned with those tasks which dealt with official business.
Q. Did you deputize for Pohl? I ask you this question because the Prosecution has asserted that you did.
A. In no way, at no time. I was only a Hauptsturmfuehrer; I could hardly deputize for a commanding General. Only a General could do that.
Q. Did you advise Pohl in matters concerned with the medical experiments?
A. No; as far as medical experiments were concerned, and concentration camp matters, Pohl never talked to me. Our relations were not those which a private secretary usually has, who is completely initiated in everything. I was handling his private matters. Pohl was a man like that. He is, first of all an extremely reserved man, and he is not the man with whom you make close contact very easily. He was disinclined to talk with me or any other assistants about tasks which were not part of the definite circle of duties of the man concerned. Also, Pohl was busy seeing people all day long. He dictated his letters himself, as the documents show. Therefore, I only had a few minutes to talk to him about his private matters. I always had to be very brief and quick in discussing his personal matters with him.
Socially speaking, I never had any relations with Pohl. I went to his house once or twice in order to see his wife about the tutelage problems.
Q. Did you, as Pohl's personal assistant, have to handle any concentration camp matters?
A. No; the handling of concentration camp matters was not within my competence. As his personal assistant, I was not part of Office Group D.
Q. I am referring you now to Document 4079. Will you please take up that document?
Does that document not show the exact opposite?
A. I am afraid I haven't got the document.
Q. It is a document which was submitted to Baier on cross-examination.
A. This was put to Baier on "cross". It says, I shall read the document aloud first:
"Today I discussed the request of the Deutsche Schieferoel GMBH with SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Sommer and asked him to assign 79 men to Erzingen --"
THE PRESIDENT: It should have an exhibit number if it was submitted to Baier.
DR. GAWLIK: If Your Honor please, I believe it is Exhibit 593. That is what we put down on our document.
It is Exhibit 593, if Your Honor please.
THE PRESIDENT: We have it, Dr. Gawlik.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Please continue.
A. This document shows that I have been telling the truth. The transfer of those 79 men had to be caused by Sturmbannfuehrer Harbohm. By orders of Pohl, I merely discussed the inquiry by the German Slate Oil Company with Hauptsturmfuehrer Sommer, whom I could phone there.
Sommer was not competent for this. Late in the evening, between seven and eight, Sommer said that he would pass the order on to Sturmbannfuehrer Harbohm. Therefore, I was purely Pohl's messenger boy in this matter.
Q. Did you take part in the conferences of the commandants?
A. No.
Q. Please take Document NO-2327, which is Exhibit 35, in Book 3, on page 109 of the English Document Book. Is this document essentially correct?
Volume 3.
A. This document is correct only in part. I was never in the Buchenwald concentration camp. Once, at the Weimar railroad station, which is a distance of about eight kilometers from Buchenwald, I phoned and asked them to give me a car to go to Erfurt where I wanted to see my sister-in-law. The road was impossible, and, therefore, Pister, the commandant, must have made a mistake here. As far as the first sentence is concerned, that I took part in the commandants' meetings, I have to say this: The conferences of the commandants consisted first of all of a social evening with Pohl--in which I never took part. Pister, as far as I can remember, saw me once or twice in Pohl's ante chamber and greeted me there when the commandants came in.
Secondly, the actual meetings of the commandants took place in Oranienburg. They were under the chairmanship, as far as I know, of Gruppenfuehrer Gluecks; who took part in these meetings, I don't know. I assume it must have been the office chiefs of Office Group D, and the commandants. Very probably this document is not very clearly formulated in German when it says, "Pister saw me at the meetings of the commandants."
I think what it should say is, "Pister has seen me on the occasion of the commandants' meetings." Otherwise, my counsel will submit several documents about that.
Q. Did you ever visit concentration camps?
A. I never entered a protective custody camp.
Q Please take Document NO-1030, which is Exhibit 62 in Document Book III on page 74. This is a letter by Mummenthey commenting on Flossenburg. Mummenthey says in this letter, and I shall quote, "SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Volk does not yet know Flossenburg and he would like to go there."
THE PRESIDENT: What is the exhibit number, please?
DR. GAWLIK: 62, if Your Honors please.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q I shall quote from this letter. "SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Volk does not yet know Flossenburg and wants to get to know it. We shall on Monday, the 5th of July, arrive at 1525 in the afternoon in Weiden." Were you in Weiden on that day?
A Yes.
Q What did you do in Weiden?
AAt Weiden we inspected the Messerschmitt Aircraft Works in Flossenburg.
DR. GAWLIK: If Your Honors please, I have drawn a sketch here of Flossenburg Camp and the Messerschmitt plant. May I submit that to the court in order to clear up this point?
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Were the Messerschmitt Works located on the site of the concentration camp?
A No.
Q Perhaps you can explain the sketch to the court.
A To the south you have the village of Flossenburg. Down at the bottom the main street goes through Flossenburg and at the cross roads there is a church to the right, or, to the northeast, the road leads to the concentration camp and northwest it turns around to the Messerschmitt Works, or what used to be formerly the administration office of the DEST. You see, first of all, the administration office of the DEST. Behind that you have various work shops. The first one is the one we inspected.
I shall explain later on what the conditions were. The main street turns off to the southeast. There is the concentration camp, or, rather, the actual area of the commandant's offices starts between the Messerschmitt Works or the site of the DEST and the Commandant's office. There is a street which connects them. We drove through Flossenburg by car in a northwesterly direction. We did not pass the Commandant's office at all.
Q What was the distance between the Messerschmitt Works and the concentration camp?
A I should say, roughly, one kilometer, I can't tell you exactly.
Q Were inmates working in the Messerschmitt Works?
A Yes.
Q Please describe to the court your visit to the Messerschmitt Works.
Q The visit lasted for about half an hour, or, perhaps, twenty minutes. We walked through the plant, Mummenthey and I. I remember at one bench where inmates were working, the foreman was explaining what the inmates were doing. He was wearing overalls on which it said, "ME" which stood for Messerschmitt. I asked him at the end of the inspection what the food was like and I was told that the inmates, apart from their legitimate rations, were given heavy workers' rations and a special additional ration, a ration for workers who worked on aircraft production, a so-called fighter addition. After that conversation I left Mummenthey and the foreman in order to look at what was going on at the various benches. I approached an inmate and wanted to talk to him. At a distance of about three or four meters, there was as SS man as a guard. He came up to me and said this verbatim: "Hauptsturmfuehrer," he said, "It is strictly forbidden to talk privately to inmates." I thereupon walked up to Mummenthey and told him this incident. I asked him whether this was true. Mummenthey said it was allowed only to speak to inmates about business matters. We continued our walk through the work shop and left the works, and I went on alone to Karlsbad.
We were in a hurry. We had to do some negotiating and on that evening I had to be back in Berlin, because Pohl was expected back from his official trip.
Q Were the Messerschmitt Works part of the DEST?
A I am unable to tell you that for certain, but I believe I can remember today that it was simply part of the Messerschmitt Works which had been evacuated to the DEST ground. I assume that from the fact that all the foremen, the civilian foremen, were wearing overalls with the letters "ME", which stands for Messerschmitt.
THE PRESIDENT: When did you visit Flossenburg?
THE WITNESS: In 1943, the middle of 1943.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q When you visited the Messerschmitt Works in Flossenburg, were you able to gain any insight into the conditions of the actual concentration camp?
A No, there was no connection between the Works and the camp. I assume that the inmates who worked there were transported at an early hour of the morning to the works and back in the evening.
Q Was this an official or private visit?
A I assume, as far as Mummenthey was concerned, it was an official visit. I went privately.
Q Now please comment on the contents of the document. Is it correct that you wanted to get to know the concentration camp Flossenburg?
A No, I did not want to get to know the concentration camp.
Q Did you express any such wish to Mummenthey?
A No.
Q What wish did you express to Mummenthey?
A I wanted to get to know the aircraft plant. On the day in question, I was en route to Karlsbad and I asked Mummenthey what was the best way to go to Karlsbad, as the rail connections from Berlin to Karlsbad, were deplorable. Mummenthey told me that he had to inspect the Messerschmitt Works in Flossenburg.
If I would like, I could go along with him and he would see to it that the same car which would take us from Weiden to Flossenburg would take us to Karlsbad. As I had heard from Hummenthey, Office W-I had been working together with Messerschmitt, I had an official interest in how aircraft production was done, and I expressed this wish to Mummenthey.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take a recess, Dr. Gawlik.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, I shall now submit a drawing concerning the dwellings, that is the buildings of the WVHA.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Witness, will you explain this drawing to the Tribunal, particularly the position of your office, and also the position of Herr Pohl's office?
A Mr. Defense Counsel, may I point out a mistake which occurred to me before. Mr. President asked me about the exhibit number of a letter, and that was Document NO-1290, and he wanted to know whether the date in the German Document Book, or the English Document Book was correct. I made a mistake; the date on the English Document Book is correct, and the one on the German Document Book is wrong.
Q What document book is that?
A It is contained in Document Book No. 3. and it is on page 15 of the German.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, this is NO--1290, Exhibit No. 60.
THE PRESIDENT: It should be January and not November?
A In the German Document Book it shows 22 November 1943. This date in the German Document Book is wrong , and the one on the English Document Book is correct.
THE PRESIDENT: The letter was written on 22 January and received on the 30 January?
THE WITNESS: I don't know, you see. In my German Document Book I noted "wrong date", after having compared it with the photostatic copy. I still don't know which one of the two dates is the correct one.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, may I during the noon recess try to get the photostatic copy and submit the correct photostatic copy?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: I shall now explain the drawing. As I stated before, those are the offices of Herr Pohl in 1944, after an air raid had already damaged the house. The house was one story higher at the beginning, and later on it was rebuilt the way it is in this drawing. As I stated before, that was the office where I was closest to Pohl. You can see five windows there some place, and that is where Pohl was sitting, and it is on the east side of the building. I was on the second floor, and on the eastern side of the building you have Dr. Volk on one side, and Dr. Pohl on the other side. I shall now explain to you the offices. The entrance was from the north, where it said "Chief Office". That was the entrance. One went through there and turned to the left, and on the right-hand side of the hall you can find the door, and through that you can get into the adjutant's office. The adjutant was sitting there and also a duty officer. Going on a little bit further you reach another door, which is Pohl's Office. When going from the adjutant's office towards the south, you reach another corridor, whereupon you turn right and you go straight ahead until you arrive at the secretary's office. On the eastern side of the secretary's office were the chief files, we had the secret files there. From his office Herr Pohl could also get out of his office, and go straight to the secretary's office without going through the adjutant's office. There was no passage out of the room without going through the adjutant's office. There was a door there, but that door was always kept under lock. It was always locked. Now Herr Pohl also issued an order that nobody was to go and see the secretary, but there was danger that even if you could go through the adjutant's office without Pohl noticing it, if the adjutant would let one go on through , there was a, constant danger that Herr Pohl could surprise somebody in the secretary's office. That was the reason why it was not possible to go and see the secretary, and the secretary had all secret letters in this folder and chief file, which carried the letters "PO/HA" Miss Hausbeck."
That was Pohl's office position.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Where was this building located in Berlin, with respect to where the Luftwaffe Building was located?
THE WITNESS: The Luftwaffe Building? That building was entirely separated from the Air Ministry. No part of a branch of the Luftwaffe was in the same building.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: I did not ask you that. I am asking you where the building was located, and in relation to where the building of the Luftwaffe was located. How near or how far apart were they?
THE WITNESS: I am afraid the translation came through wrong, that is the reason I did not understand that. The question was, if I understood you correctly, how far was the Luftwaffe Building distant from the WVHA building. Is that what you want to know?
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Yes.
THE WITNESS: You see, Mr. Federal Judge, the building which was once close to the Luftwaffe Ministry - - now, let's see, what part of the Luftwaffe was -
JUDGE PHILLIPS: The Luftwaffe Building was the Wannsee. Where was this building located in relation to that building?
THE WITNESS: Now if Mr. Federal Judge, you are referring to Amtsgruppe-C, then Amtsgruppe -C was opposite of that side right across from there. Amtsgruppe-C, however, was not part of the Air Ministry. It was a special staff of Kammler's and the special staff of Kammler's was an entirely different building compound. It was not within the block of WVHA. Where it was, I don't know, either. For a certain period of time, I believe, it was in the private villa of Dr. Kammler's, and all the experts. As a part of that staff, I could not tell you for sure. Anyway, according to my opinion they were in the Air Ministry.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: All right. Go ahead.