THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, Mr. Fenstermacher.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Thank you, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. General Pemsel, going back for just a minute to the reprisal measures that you first talked about, the one you did have something to do with other than the document I showed you, that was the first reprisal measure you mentioned in retaliation for the death of 21 soldiers who were members of the 521st Signal Regiment, from which agency did you get the order to kill 2100 Serbs in retaliation for the death of 21 soldiers who were killed?
A. From the superior agency this order was passed on to me.
Q. Which agency?
A. I beg your pardon?
Q. Which agency passed it on to you?
A. The order came from the Army and it came to the Staff of the Military Commander and that is where I learned of it.
Q. It came from the 12th Army, didn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. How many of the defendants do you know, General Pemsel?
A. Six defendants.
Q. Which ones do you know?
A. I know Field Marshal List; I know General Kuntze, General Foertsch, General Rendulic, General Dehner and General Lanz.
Q. Under which ones of the defendants did you serve?
A. I served under Field Marshal List, under General Kuntze, as chief of staff under General Foertsch, as company officer once under General Dohner, and as first general staff officer once under General Lanz.
Q. You omitted to mention General Rendulic, I believe.
A. Yes; yes, General Rendulic.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have no further questions, your Honors.
THE PRESIDENT: Any questions by any defense counsel?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITSCH (Counsel for the defendant Rendulic)
Q. Witness, just one question concerning the question last put: you were asked which ones of the defendants you know and you have answered that question.
A. Yes.
Q. And General Rendulic was one of them.
A. Yes.
Q. And then another question was put: under which generals you served.
A. Yes.
A. And in that connection you didn't mention General Rendulic.
A. I beg your pardon; that was an error. General Rendulic was Commander in Chief of an army in Norway. At that time I was in charge of the 6th Mountain Division. I was not immediately subordinate to him but via the Amy group Narvick.
Q. I only understood the last question of the Prosecutor to the effect whether or not you served under General Rendulic.
BY DR. LATERNSER (Counsel for the defendant List):
Q. General, I have just a few questions to put to you. One of them concerns the fact whether or not I understand you correctly. You answered the Prosecutor to the effect that the order for the reprisal measures in the case of the Signal Regiment came from the 12th Army. Do you remember that fact for certain; I mean, that order came from the 12th Army?
A. Yes, it was passed on; that is how I formulated it. That is how I expressed myself. The order itself came on the basis of an order from the OKW, that for every German killed 50 to 100 Serbs had to be shot.
Q. General, what I mean is whether you are quite certain that you received it from the 12th Army.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors, please, I object to that. This is Dr. Laternser's own witness and I submit he is bound by his answers and may not argue with him. The witness has already answered the question three times.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
Q. In that particular case did the OKW issue an order? Did you know anything about that?
A. Yes, I know that instance for certain. At that time I talked to the then Colonel Kuebler. The order for the shooting of these particular Serbs in connection with the massacring of the German members of the Signal Regiment was given by the OKW and it was passed on by the Amy.
Q. And you recall that for certain?
A. Yes. very certain, indeed.
DR. LATERNSER: I have no further questions to put to this witness.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have just one more question, if your Honors please.
RECROSS EXAMINATION MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. General Pemsel, you unfortunately had a lapse in your memory with respect to the execution of 2200 Serbs at Valjevo. You have no similar lapse of memory with respect to how you got an order to retaliate for the loss of 21 German soldiers, members of the 521st Signal Regiment?
A. No, I have only stated that I know nothing about this matter.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: No further questions, your Honors.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there any questions by members of the Tribunal?
JUDGE GARTER: I would like to ask the General a question or two.
EXAMINATION BY JUDGE CARTER:
Q. General, you have testified that this order for the execution of 2100 Serbs was passed on by you?
A. Yes.
Q. That is by virtue of your office or position as chief of staff of the Plenipotentiary Commanding General in Serbia?
A. May I ask what case you are dealing with? Is it the case about which I was questioned first of all?
Q. Yes, the killing of the 22 members of the 521st Signal Battalion.
A. Yes, I remember that order. Since an active combat troops was concerned - the Signal Regiment was part of the active troops -the order was passed on by me by order of my Commanding General who was General Boehme. In this case the active troops were to attack. These cases were being worked on by the Staff of the Military Commander.
Q. In your position as Chief of Staff you were more or less familiar with orders and reports that were issued by General Boehme and came to him by virtue of his command. Is that true?
A. Yes, to the extent to which they concerned my activity as Chief of Staff of the 18th Corps; that is, tactical matters.
Q. The question I really want to put to you is this: do you know whether or not those reports indicated that order for the execution of 2100 Serbs was carried out to the extent indicated in the order?
A. I know that these measures were not carried out to the extent ordered. That was done on the basis of a discussion which we had with the Army. On that occasion I talked to the then Colonel Kuebler and also to General Foertsch and with their consent the reported the reprisal measures as being carried out in compliance with the ratio requested in the official order from higher headquarters but the reprisal measures were not actually carried out to that extent as generally with the consent of the Army these reports to higher headquarters were dressed up.
Q. Can you tell us to what extent it was carried out, if you know?
A. I can't relate that for certain. The carrying out fell into the sphere of activity of State Councillor Thurner. I myself had nothing to do with it and was in no position to check up.
JUDGE CARTER: I have no further questions.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have one or two more, if your Honors please.
RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. General Ponsel, do you recall giving an affidavit on behalf of Field Marshal List?
A. Yes.
Q. This is in List Document Book I. It is List Document No. 32 and it is List Exhibit No. 66.
DR. LATERNSER: If your Honors please, at this moment there may be no questions put concerning new topics. That should have been done at the first questioning. The Prosecutor apparently didn't do that and all he can do now is put questions in conjunction with the questions put by the Tribunal.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Dr. Laternser has done this on many occasions, as I am sure he will recall. This is not a new matter but something which arises out of one or two questions from the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed briefly.
Q. In that affidavit, General Pemsel -- I am talking about false reports which you gave to the OKW -- you said and I quote: "I can no more remember individual examples and figures." Do you want to modify that statement now?
A. No.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: That is all.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be excused.
Pardon me.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q. General, in this affidavit to which Mr. Fenstermacher refers at this point you had stated that you do not recall numbers concerning the individual incidents. Is that correct?
A. Yes, it is.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be excused.
MR. FULKERSON: The Prosecution is ready now to cross examine the affiant, Heinrich von Behr.
THE PRESIDENT: You may call him as a witness.
MR. FULKERSON: Incidentally, this affiant's affidavit appears in Dehner Document Book VII at page 103 as Dehner Document No. 38, Exhibit 34.
HEINRICH VON BEHR, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn.
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FULKERSON:
Q. Please give your name and birthdate--birthplace.
A. Heinrich yon Behr, born September 1887, in Xoenigsberg, Prussia.
Q. What is your profession, please, sir?
A. At last I was Major General.
Q. You were a professional soldier then?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your command during the period July 1943 till March 1944?
A. At that time I was Commander of the 173rd reserve Division in Croatia.
Q. In what Corps Area were you located, General?
A. In the area of the 69th Corps.
Q. Were you subordinate to the 69th Corps the whole time that you were down there?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. General, there are several statements that you made here in your affidavit that I would like to have clarified if I could. You make this statement: "If any of the Croat population were working for the Germans, it was only on the basis of voluntary employment contracts."
A. Yes, that is to the best of my knowledge.
Q. Well, that is one thing I want to find out about -- the extent of your knowledge. What was it? What did you know about the machinery whereby persons who were employed by the Germans were employed? What agency did it? Who was in charge of it? What was the connection between that agency and the Wehrmacht, if any, etc.
? Just describe that briefly to us, if you will.
A. I do not recall that any longer. I am today in no position anymore to make such statements. I only know what I also expressed in my affidavit. To the best of my knowledge, there were some contracts of work. In any case, the population was never forced by the troops to carry out any services for them.
Q. Well, I am going to show you a document here and ask you if you have ever seen it. It is in Book XVI, NOKW-673, page 63 of the English and 110 of the German. Now, I am going to anticipate you to some extent. I realize that this did not have directly to do with your division, but I want you to look it over and with particular reference to paragraph d.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you kindly give the citation again, please?
MR. FULKERSON: Yes, sir. This is NOKW-673. It is on page 63 of the English, of Book XVI. It has to do, if your Honors please, if you don't have your books before you, with the intention of the 2nd Panzer Army of recruiting the male population of the islands off the Croatian coast for employment on the construction of fortifications, and the paragraph to which I direct the witness's attention is paragraph d, which reads, "The rest of the men are available to the Fortress Engineer Staff for construction work on the coastal fortifications."
Q. Did you get a chance to look this over, General?
A. I do not recall ever to have seen this order. Furthermore, the contents are not of any great importance for the troops of the Division because the troops subordinated to me were not committed along the coast. Therefore, I could not remember haying seen this order at any time.
Q. Well, I know, General, but I am just trying to find out the profundity of your information about this subject that you have volunteered a statement about here. Are you prepared to say that -
A. I can only repeat that.
Q. In other words, you don't know anything about these Croatians having been drafted for labor by the Wehrmacht in this particular instance?
A. No, I don't know anything about that. At least in my area I made no observations to the effect that Croatians were drafted for services.
Q. And you don't know what German agencies handled the collection and recruiting, whether it was forcible recruiting or whether it was voluntary?
A. No, I don't know that.
Q. So, when you say -- when you make this statement in your affidavit here that these people were all working voluntarily for the Germans, you really don't know what you are talking about, do you?
A. I have stated that to the best of my knowledge and to the extent to which I can give an opinion about this today.
Q. I know, but, General, you did not even put this qualifications in your affidavit; you just made a bold assertion without any qualification at all.
A. Well, I said it because at the time I did make those observations, but today I can't say what agencies dealt with these matters.
Q. You mean your memory has deteriorated since the 15th of November -of December, when this affidavit was made?
A. No. My memory has not deteriorated since that time.
Q. All right, now, let's pass on down to paragraph 3 of your affidavit. Do you have the affidavit before you, General?
A. No. Could I please have it?
Q. Now, in the last sentence there you say that the German Military Commander Staff could not issue either orders or any other instructions to the German authorities or to the police units -- and I may point out parenthetically for the information of the Court that the phrase "or to the police units" is omitted in the translation. What staff were you talking about here, General?
A The police units which were committed in my area could not be given any orders, neither from me nor from the Commander agencies, as I know and I still remember. They were independent.
Q Well, that is what I am grabbing at. But what agencies? Here you say the German Military Commando Staff -- Do you mean the Staff of the Corps or what?
A Corps and Division. That is what I mean.
Q All right, now, you say they couldn't issue orders be the German authorities or to the police units. What German authorities are you talking about?
AAbout agency of the Division as well as that of the Corps. That is, the 69th Corps.
Q Excuse me, General, we are talking at cross purposes. You state here in this sentence that the Staff--and you have explained that you mean by that the Corps Staff and the Division Staff-couldn't issue orders either to the police units or to the German authorities. Now, what I want to know is, what German authorities you are talking about? Aside from the police units, what other German authorities were there?
A I mean the Wehrmacht agencies -- the agencies of the Wehrmacht. That is what I mean by German Commando agencies.
Q I still think we are talking at cross purposes. You have mentioned two different groups of Germans in Croatia over whom you say the Wehrmacht had no control. Now, one of them is the police. What I want to know is, what were -- what was the other one?
A The offices of the SD which was active down there.
Q All right, the SD. Now what else? You don't include the SD as part of the police. You are making a distinction between the SD and the police. Any other German agencies down there?
A For instance, the German authorities of the civilian administration, the Legation, for instance. But above all, I mean the police units which were down there.
Those could not receive any orders or instructions from the Commando agencies down there.
Q Do you mean that, generally speaking, the German Wehrmacht could not exercise authority over the police, or do you mean that the German Wehrmacht never could exorcise authority ever the police?
AAt the time when I was down there -- and that is the only period of time we are concerned with--that could not happen. It was always stressed even by the Corps that the police was not subordinated to the Division and that it operated completely independently.
Q And it is your testimony now that the police units, including the police troops, were never subordinate to the Wehrmacht in your Corps Area the whole time you were down there?
A To the best of my knowledge, no. During that time there was no subordination.
Q So that if General Dehner testified on the witness stand that from time to time the police troops were subordinate to the Wehrmacht for certain tactical operations, General Dehner didn't know what he was talking about?
DR. GAWLIK: I object. If the witness is to be confronted by statements made by General Dehner, I should like to ask that the witness be furnished the record containing the statements made by General Dehner. I object to the manner in which the Prosecution has submitted it.
THE PRESIDENT: The question was argumentative, and we should avoid that at this time more than at any other state.
Q General, what were the regulations concerning the use of Wehrmacht uniforms by persons who were not members of the Wehrmacht in Croatia? That is to say, were there any regulations which prohibited civilians from wearing Wehrmacht uniforms?
A I am convinced that there were such regulations. However, at the moment I don't knew exactly whether there were such regulations down there and also I can't remember having actually seen them.
Of course, only our troops are permitted to wear uniforms and everybody else who wears German uniforms becomes liable to punishment in some way or other.
Q Well, that is the way it is in our American Army. In other words, it is forbidden for persons who are not members of the American Army to be to be wandering around in uniforms, and I wondered if there was some such provision as far as the German Army is concerned. As far as you know, there was such a regulation and this regulation was competent in Croatia while you were down there?
A I believe so.
Q So that if a Croatian civilian wandered around in a German uniform, he was exposing himself to arrest and punishment by the German authorities? Or, if not by the German authorities, by the Croatian authorities?
DR. GAWLIK: If it please the Tribunal, I object to that question. That question does not go as to what the witness has actually seen or heard, the prosecutor instead, argues with the witness. We asks for a conclusion of the witness. The witness is to state facts; he should not be asked for his opinion.
MR. FULKERSON: If a Major General in the Wehrmacht isn't able to answer that question, I don't know who would be able to answer it.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection is overruled. The question may be answered, but limit it as much as possible.
MR. FULKERSON: Yes, sir.
QUESTIONS BY MR. FULKERSON: (Continued):
Q Will you answer the question, please sir?
A Could I please ask the question again?
Q I simply asked you that if a Croatian civilian wandered around in a Wehrmacht uniform if it wasn't true that he was exposing himself to arrest and punishment just for doing that alone?
A Yes, I am firmly convinced that he became liable to punishment
Q Now, you say here in this affidavit of yours, in describing the partisans, that they were partly wearing German uniformed clothing. That is in the 4th paragraph, General.
A Yes.
Q When troops saw a band of Croatians wearing various articles don't you think that that was enough to put them on notice that those people were an unfriendly group?
A It can rightly assumed that if they did that they could be suspected of being partisans. If they wandered around wearing pieces of German uniform and in that way camouflaged themselves, they might even have become suspects of espionage.
Q Well, now, you say here in the next sentence that even though they did this, they couldn't be distinguished from the civilian population at all. How do you explain that? It just seems to me that there is a slight inconsistency between what you just said and this next sentence.
A In paragraph 4 I said that some of them also wore pieces of German uniform. That is not a matter of principle. It happened that people were caught or seen wandering around who were pieces of uniform, but that was not a general or uniform rule. It was also possible that groups of partisans were sighted which did not wear uniforms bub could not be distinguished at all from the indigenous population. That is what I wanted to explain in paragraph 4.
Q All right, now, let's move over to paragraph 5. You say in the area of the 173rd Division--I am reading from the second sentence-"In the area of the 173rd Reserve Division during the time I was in command of this division, troops of the 173rd Reserve Division had never arrested hostages, killed hostages, or destroyed Croat villages as a reprisal measure for actions in violation of International Law." Did you write that sentence, General?
A Yes, I did.
Q Well, I am going to hand you Document NOKW-053, which is found in Book XIII for the Prosecution, page 117 of the English and 84 of the German.
THE PRESIDENT: Does it have an exhibit number?
MR. FULKERSON: It is Exhibit 333.
Q Have you found the passage that I have reference to down there? The 173rd Reserve Division. It is the next to the last paragraph, General.
A Which starts with "Reprisal measures for attacks on railroad lines, 40 hostages were executed." Is that the one?
Q Yes.
A In that connection, I should like to state that the executions, that is, reprisal measures, which took place within the area of the 173rd Reserve Division -- were carried out by Croatia authorities or by indigenous authorities, but they had to be reported to the Corps. As I expressed in my affidavit, no such reprisal measures were carried out by the troops of the Division-- that is, things like the execution of the hostages, etc.
Q. What was the main tactical task of your division at this time, General?
A. The division had the task of training and also of protecting the military objects in the country. Furthermore, the division was committed for the protection of the civilian population which became necessary in view of the surprise attacks by the partisans.
Q. Well, now, among these military installations, were the railroads included?
A. Railroads were amongst them also.
Q. Well, when you say amongst them, do you mean by that that they were just an incidental - the protection of the railroads was just incidental to the other tasks that you carried out, or did the protection of the railroad form a rather important part of your tasks?
A. It was part of the tasks which the division had to carry out.
Q. Well, now, what part -- was your division assigned a certain length of the railroad, a certain of the railroad and charged with the protection of that?
A. Mainly the Railroad Security Service which was not subordinate to me was competent for the protection of those lines. Apart from that, those troops which were stationed near the railroad line were committed for this purpose the whole area of protection being subordinated into individual sectors. Patrols were established and sent along these railroad lines, particularly during nighttime and allowed us to carry out a certain protection of the railroad lines.
Q. In other words, troops of your division actually patrolled a certain sector of this railroad line?
A. Yes. That is right.
Q. Now, what was the connection between the activities of your troops in carrying out these railroad patrols and the activities of this Railroad Security Service or Railroad Security Staff or whatever it was? Did their activities overlap? Were you coordinated so that they were working on one section and you on another, or how was it done?
A. Well, the activities actually overlapped. To the best of my knowledge, in the individual bunkers there were within my sector Railroad Security Units committed and apart from that, those troops of my division stationed along the railroad line, as I said, carried out their patrols and worked together with the men of the Railroad Security Service the members of the Railroad Security Service, however, were not subordinate to me.
Q. Well, how did they work together? You say there was no subordination?
A. Well, by exchanging information concerning the enemy and their observations and by helping each other when they were attacked by any groups of partisans. That in the way in which they worked together.
Q. Now about this Railroad Security Service -- were the men in it Germans or Croatians or Russians or what?
A. To the best of my recollection, they were Germans. I believe that some of them were also Croatians if my memory doesn't deceive me. I am afraid I can't say it for certain.
Q. How many members of the Railway Security Service do you reckon there were in the sector of your division?
A. Well, I don't remember the actual number. I can't make any statement. At least, the railroad was comparatively strongly manned. In site of that fact now and again the enemy succeeded of course in getting explosives put down along the line and in that way carrying out acts of sabotage. These things were done mainly at night time when it was more difficult to carry out a guarding of the railroad line.
Q. All right, now, when a bower was to be built or a bunker or some kind of fortification to guard a bridge or an over-pass on the railroad, who decided whether it was to be built? You or the Railroad Security Service?
A. I believe that would be a matter of the Railroad Security Service. That was not within the sphere of my competency.
Q. All right, then, after it was built, who would man it?
A. I do not remember that troops of the division manned those installations. I believe for that purpose also the members of the Railroad Security Service were used.
Q. Well, what actually did your troops do? Did they just walk up and down the railroad?
A. They defended against attacks on the railroad lines if that became necessary. There were some skimishes with the partisans at times.
Q. When an attack occurred on a railroad line in your division area, a successful attack that is, did you hold yourself accountable for it? Or did General Dehner hold you accountable for it?
A. First of all, each divisional commander in his area would be responsible. That would be my person in my area.
Q. So if one of these attacks occurred in your division area, you were the person who was held primarily responsible by the higher authorities of the Wehrmacht?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. And this entry that we just looked at says "As reprisal measure for railroad plots, 40 hostages were executed."
A. Yes.
Q. But notwithstanding what you have just said, excuse me -I can give you the page again. It is page 84.
A. Yes, I see, page 84.
These occurrences were reported to the police and to the Croatian authorities. These agencies for their parts carried out these reprisal measures. At least, within my division, I never ordered such reprisal measures nor were any carried out by the troops of my division as I have already stated.
Q. All right, let's look at another document. Perhaps it will be a little clearer. This is in Book XVI. It is NOKW-658, page 25 of the English and 69 of the German
A. Is that contained in the book I have?
Q. Have you got Book XVI, General? Has it got a Roman numeral XVI on the outside?
A. No, it is XIII which I have got.
THE PRESIDENT: You probably forgot to give him the German pagination.
MR. FULKERSON: Yes, I gave him the German pagination alright. But he has the wrong book.
BY MR. FULKERSON:
Q. Here again we have a report to the Second Panzer Army in which the remark is made about the 173rd Reserve Division that 19 communists were hanged at the scene of the detonation in reprisal for railroad explosion. I believe you took this up in your affidavit.
A. It is a report here which apparently was passed on by the corps. It is expressed here that in the area of the 173rd Division this hanging took place, but it is not said that it was carried by the troops. I can as a matter of fact remember one incident which I believe is the same incident -- I refer to that also in the affidavit. It is a case where I myself saw the victims hanging at the spot where the explosion took place. It is the only time where I saw such a sight in Croatia; that is why I remember it particularly well.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take our noon recess at this time.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours.)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom please take their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed.
MR. FULKERSON: Before I continue with the cross-examination, I would like to make a request of defense counsel to let us know whether they have any matters that are still hanging fire from their case, with the exception of those Greek documents of Dr. Mueller-Torgow?
In other words, it has been intimated that they are going to offer some material in sur-rebuttal, and I would like to know now what kind of sur-rebuttal and what is being offered as just sort of left-over which they may have asked the Court's permission to put in later on so that we can separate the chaff from the wheat ourselves?
I am not asking them to tell me what material they intend to offer in sur-rebuttal, of course, but I am simply asking them to tell me what other material which is left over from their own case.
DR. LATERNSER: First, I would like to reply to the prosecutor to the effect that they, just as much as we had no claim to know what they were going to present during re-buttal, they have no claim to know what we will be presenting. I beg to inform the Court that we wish to present various matters; as to the extent, I cannot state it at the moment, but only at such time as I have consulted with my colleagues on the matter. But I assume that it will not be very comprehensive material or very voluminous.
MR. FULKERSON: Well, actually, I would like to point out that we are entitled to know it 24 hours in advance. I am just asking for a few hours notice because we expect to be finished this afternoon.
THE PRESIDENT: My records show that all defendants have rested except the defendants Felmy and Speidel, and that they have been given the right through a reservation to present certain documents to which reference has been made previously in the records.
It is my memory that Dr. Tipp and Dr. Fritsch have one or two minor matters which they have indicated they would like to present to the Tribunal in surrebuttal, and Dr. Laternser. The Tribunal is not ruling on those matters at this time or indicating what its ruling would be, but it is our understanding that those are the only matters which will probably be presented in surrebuttal. I might also state that the 24-hour rule, in the judgment of the Tribunal, does not apply to surrebuttal.
MR. FULKERSON: We are --
THE PRESIDENT: Whatever that means.
DR. GAWLIK: Gawlik, counsel for General Dehner. In order to avoid misunderstanding, I would like to state that I also have offered this document for surrebuttal. I have already signed an exhibit number for identification purposes, and I would like to reserve the right to present one or two documents in the course of surrebuttal.
THE PRESIDENT: Without ruling upon the matter at this time, of course the Tribunal will give you the right to present it. As to what its ruling may be upon presentation, the Tribunal will have to decide at that time. Necessarily, surrebuttal will have to be and should be and necessarily is a matter which should be very brief.
CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued) WITNESS - General von Behr BY MR. FULKERSON:
Q. General von Behr, did you discuss any of these documents that I asked you about this morning during the noon hour with anyone?
A. No, I have not done that.
Q. I assume that you have studied all the ones that I have asked you about so far before you made this affidavit?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Now, let's look at this same Document Book XVI on page 26 of the English and 61 of the German. It is a teletype dated November 8.
There is another reference there under paragraph -- that is -- can you find it?
A. Yes.
Q. There is another reference there to paragraph 3 to the 173rd Reserve Division. It says 21 hostages shot to death as reprisal for an attack on a freight train between two different towns.
A. I cannot recall this incident. At any rate, if this routine took place -- it was effected either by the Croatian or the German police authorities but as I previously stated, was not carried out by any troops of the division.
Q. Could it have been carried out by the SD?
A. Yes, it may certainly.
Q. The SD were operating in your division area, were they?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Do you remember what Einsatzkommandos were there?
A. I do know that certain Einsatzkommandos were active there. For instance, in the little town of Ruma in which I had my divisional staff.
Q. All right now, let's look at still another entry. This is on page 67 of the book you have before you and is page 27 of the English. 20 hostages hanged and 20 shot to death in reprisal for railroad sabotage near some unpronounceable place, and the it refers to a previous daily report of the 173rd Reserve Division. You find the entry there, General, that I am talking about?
A. Yes. In this case also it can only be a report on incidents within the area of the division which happened within the area of the division. I cannot recall details of this incident. I don't know who actually carried out the shooting, nor how and when it was affected.
Q. Did you interest yourself in these things? You say that in the case of these other incidents you said that they must have been carried out by the police or the SD or the Croatians or somebody else.