THE PRESIDENT: I think arrangements can be made.
P A U L M A H L M A N N, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will rise and be sworn: "I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing."
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may be seated. Now, Mr. Rapp, please - we have been switching back and forth and perhaps we have not followed technically the regularity in connection with cross examination of witnesses and rebuttal; and in order that the record may show for what purpose each witness is called, if you will so state at the beginning of the interrogation?
MR. RAPP: This witness is the affiant, or an affiant, for the defendant Rendulic and it has reference to Rendulic Document Book No. 1, Rendulic Document No. 19, Exhibit No. 18. He is here for cross examination by the Prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
MR. RAPP: Very well, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RAPP:
Q Witness, you are PAUL MAHLMANN, born on the 10th of December 1892, at Gispersleben Kreis Erfurt?
A Yes.
Q What is your profession?
AAt present, no profession. Formerly, professional officer.
Q What was your last rank?
A Generalleutnant (Major General.)
Q And what type of unit did you last command?
A The 353rd Infantry Division.
Q Where?
AAt the last that was at the Rhine.
Q You gave an affidavit here which primarily cover a period you served at the Eastern Front. Did you continously, after that period, serve on the Eastern Front?
A No. In between I was in Germany, then in the West, and in between I was some of the time in Russia again.
Q Can you figure out, very shortly, how many months altogether you were in Russia?
A In Russia I was from the beginning of the Russian Campaign until May 1942; and subsequently from January 1943 to November 1943.
Q That figures out approximately to be 22 months - almost two years?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember having given an affidavit on behalf of the defendant Rendulic?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember the date you gave this affidavit?
A I think it must have been about three months ago, I believe. I don't recall the date but I think it will be on the document.
Q I appreciate that, witness, that you called my attention to that; but I still would like to find out whether or not YOU can recall it. Do you remember the month?
A Well, perhaps in October or November - that may have been at that time.
Q What time in October? The latter part of October, beginning of November, or when?
A Well, I can't say exactly when it was.
Q Did you make more than one affidavit for the defendant Rendulic?
A No. Only this one affidavit.
Q How did it come that you gave this affidavit?
A I was asked to do so by the Defense.
Q Well, tell me the nature--how you were invited to give it--I mean how did it come about?
A One day I received a letter from Defense Counsel for the General, asking whether I could recall certain incidents and whether I was in a position to comment on them and make a declaration. I replied that I could recall them and was able to make an affidavit regarding these incidents.
Q Regarding what particular incidents did Defense Counsel want to know whether you could remember them or not?
A Regarding the so-called Commissar Order. That is, as to whether I had knowledge of the Commissar Order, in what way I gained knowledge of it, and whether I had knowledge as to whether any shootings of commissars did take place.
Q And the affidavit which you wrote was the answer or the reply to Defense Counsel's inquiry, is that correct?
A Yes, that was the reply to the inquiry.
Q And what, basically, did your answer say?
A My reply was to the effect that I did know of the order but that shootings of commissars had not taken place, a), because, as far as I recall, the order was made officially known to the troop and, b), the Defense asked me from whom had received the order and I answered that I did not know who transmitted this order to me, and in what way I received it, but I supposed through usual channels. At any rate, I did not receive it from the General himself because it was not customary for Division Commanders to transmit orders to Regimental Commanders.
Q You commanded the 181st Regiment in the 52nd Infantry Division?
A Yes.
Q Do you know any of the other regimental commanders - at that time?
A Yes, I did know them, all of them.
Q Well, how many did you have, besides yourself?
A There were three Infantry Regimental Commanders and one Artillery Regimental Commander.
Q Who commanded the 205th Infantry Regiment?
AAt that time it was Colonel Reimann.
Q Have you seen him lately?
A Yes, I have.
Q When did you see him the last time?
A On Monday.
Q Where?
A In the witness house.
Q And before that - when did you see him the last time?
A Previously I saw him in Russia. It was when he left, shortly before his departure. As far as I recall, he left in January 1942 and that is when I saw him for the last time. Of course, I do not recall exactly when.
Q Did you ever, since you did not see him, have any contact with him in writing or any other way, since the time you saw him last in Russia and the time you saw him again in Nurnberg?
A No, never.
Q Did General Reimann tell you of his experiences here in the Courtroom?
A Yes, he did.
Q What did you discuss?
A He told me what he had been asked - the questions he had been asked and his replies to them.
MR. RAPP: I have no further questions, your Honor.
DR. FRITSCH (Counsel for defendant Rendulic): I have no questions to put to the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there other Defense Counsel who wish to interrogate this witness? Any members of the Tribunal? The witness may be excused.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor, may the Marshal be instructed to call the affiant, MAX PEMSEL, for cross examination?
MAX PEMSEL, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn:
"I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing."
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may be seated.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. Your name is MAX PEMSEL?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your last rank in the German Army?
A. Generalleutnant (Major General.)
Q. How long were you Chief of Staff to General Boehme in the Balkans?
A. Two months; that is, I am only referring to the time when I was assigned in Serbia.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor wants the references to the affidavits?
THE PRESIDENT: The references, and that it is cross examination.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: It is cross examination, your Honor, on the affidavits in List Document Book I, on page 8 of List Document Book I, List Document No. 30, Exhibit 14; List Document No. 29, List Exhibit 62; List Document No. 32, List Exhibit 66; and in Kuntze Document Book I, Kuntze Document No. 2, Kuntze Exhibit No. 30.
BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. You were Chief of Staff, General Pemsel, to General Boehme during the months of September, October, and part of November, 1941?
A. Yes, in Serbia.
Q. Do you recall the affidavits you gave on behalf of Field Marshal List and General Kuntze?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Do you remember the affidavit you gave on behalf of Field Marshal List in which you discussed the field of activities of Staatsrat Dr. Thurner? (This is in List Document Book I, on page 8, Your Honor. It is Exhibit List No. 14.) Do you recall that affidavit, General Pemsel?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What was the field of activities of Dr. Thurner? Was he concerned with reprisal measures?
A. The field of activity -- as I have already stated in my affidavit -- I was the tactical Chief of the Staff of General Boehme. The sphere of Dr. Thurner did not touch my province so that, as I stated, I am not informed in detail. Thurner, as far as I remember, worked in the staff of the Plenipotentiary Commanding General and Military Commander.
Q. You talked about your sphere of activities. Did you have anything to do with reprisal measures?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember signing any orders or reports that had to do with reprisal measures?
A. Yes, some of them passed through my hands.
Q. Which ones do you remember?
A. I can't recall exactly. I do know of a reprisal measure, as stated in my affidavit. In one case, when 20 or 22 German officers and enlisted men had been assassinated in a bestial way, reprisals were exacted.
Q. That went through your hands -- the order for the execution of 2300 Serbs?
A. Yes. The order did pass through my hands but it was dealt with by the Staff of the Military Commander.
Q. Who gave the order for the execution of those 2300?
A. The order was issued by General Boehme.
DR. RAUSCHENBACH: If it please the Tribunal. I merely want to call attention to an error in translation. I do not know whether any significance can be attached to it but it just struck me. It was said that the order was dealt with by the Military Commander. The witness said by "the staff" but it was translated as "Chief of Staff".
BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. This order for the execution of....
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps, Mr. Fenstermacher, you might present the question again, so that the record may be definitely made as this matter, and the witness's comments and answers be properly translated, if they were improperly translated before.
BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. Who dealt with the order, General Pemsel, for the execution of 2300 Serbs in reprisal for the death of 23 German soldiers -- who dealt with that?
A. It was dealt with by the staff of the CommanderSerbia; Lt. Col. Gravenhorst was the Chief.
Q. You mean that the order for the execution of 2300 was given by General Boehme and the actual details of the shooting -- the time and the place -- were arranged by Lt. Col. Gravenhorst's staff?
A. Yes, by that staff.
Q. And you passed that order on?
A. Yes I did. It went through my hands because I was tactical Chief to General Boehme. It was like this....
Q. Never mind, General Pemsel. Now, do you recall any other large retaliation measures which passed through your hands?
A. No, I do not. Major reprisal measures of that kind I do not recall. I said already that only some of them passed through my hands because that was not my province. As the Chief of the Staff reported to General Boehme directly and I was not present at those oral reports, I am not able to testify as to the details. I do know about a serious case in Kragujevac.
Q. How many persons were killed in reprisal on that occasion?
A. In Kragujevac you mean? Kragujevac, to my knowledge, as far as I was informed, was not a reprisal measure. It was an independent operation taken by the local Field Commander, he, being the territorial commander and being subordinate to the Military Commander; General Boehme, when he heard of that, in talking to me, repudiated that case in the most severe terms and initiated a court investigation. As far as I know, an officer from the staff was delegated to investigate the case.
Q. You have mentioned two reprisal measures now, General Pemsel. One that you previously had referred to in an affidavit; I think that one involved the death of 21 German soldiers of the 521st Signal Regiment and, in retaliation for their deaths, 2100 Serbs were executed. That is the first one you mentioned, isn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. And then the second one at Kragujevac. Do you know how many persons were executed on that occasion?
A. I can't say that but to my knowledge it was a great number. Perhaps I may be allowed to remark that particularly workers....
Q. Never mind, General Pemsel. If you don't remember the number that were executed, that is all we are interested in. Now you said that the first reprisal measure of 2100 Serbs did pass through your hands but the one at Kragujevac you had nothing to do with?
A. Yes.
Q. Now do you recall a third reprisal measure which took place while you were in Serbia, as Chief of Staff to General Boehme?
A. Not any major case.
Q. So the only one you do remember is the execution of 2100 Serbs in reprisal for the death of the 21 members of the 521st Signal Regiment?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you please look at this document, General Pemsel. (This is NOKW -560. It was introduced into evidence by the Prosecution as Prosecution Exhibit 84. It is in Prosecution Document Book III, on page 22.) Is that your signature on that document, General Pemsel?
A. I cannot recognize it...Yes.
Q. Well, that document refers to the death of 220 arrested Serbs in retaliation for 10 killed and 24 wounded German soldiers - members of the troop units seized in Valjevo. You do not remember that retaliation measure?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Is the death of 220 Serbs a rather unimportant detail for you to remember?
A. I can't recall this case.
Q. General Pemsel, after you left the Balkans, where did you go?
A. From the Balkans I was transferred to Norway.
Q. During the evacuation of the Northern Norwegian province of Finmark you were Commander of the Sixth Mountain Division under the 20th Mountain Army which was commanded by General Rendulic, weren't you?
A. Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take our morning recess at this time.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, Mr. Fenstermacher.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Thank you, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. General Pemsel, going back for just a minute to the reprisal measures that you first talked about, the one you did have something to do with other than the document I showed you, that was the first reprisal measure you mentioned in retaliation for the death of 21 soldiers who were members of the 521st Signal Regiment, from which agency did you get the order to kill 2100 Serbs in retaliation for the death of 21 soldiers who were killed?
A. From the superior agency this order was passed on to me.
Q. Which agency?
A. I beg your pardon?
Q. Which agency passed it on to you?
A. The order came from the Army and it came to the Staff of the Military Commander and that is where I learned of it.
Q. It came from the 12th Army, didn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. How many of the defendants do you know, General Pemsel?
A. Six defendants.
Q. Which ones do you know?
A. I know Field Marshal List; I know General Kuntze, General Foertsch, General Rendulic, General Dehner and General Lanz.
Q. Under which ones of the defendants did you serve?
A. I served under Field Marshal List, under General Kuntze, as chief of staff under General Foertsch, as company officer once under General Dohner, and as first general staff officer once under General Lanz.
Q. You omitted to mention General Rendulic, I believe.
A. Yes; yes, General Rendulic.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have no further questions, your Honors.
THE PRESIDENT: Any questions by any defense counsel?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITSCH (Counsel for the defendant Rendulic)
Q. Witness, just one question concerning the question last put: you were asked which ones of the defendants you know and you have answered that question.
A. Yes.
Q. And General Rendulic was one of them.
A. Yes.
Q. And then another question was put: under which generals you served.
A. Yes.
A. And in that connection you didn't mention General Rendulic.
A. I beg your pardon; that was an error. General Rendulic was Commander in Chief of an army in Norway. At that time I was in charge of the 6th Mountain Division. I was not immediately subordinate to him but via the Amy group Narvick.
Q. I only understood the last question of the Prosecutor to the effect whether or not you served under General Rendulic.
BY DR. LATERNSER (Counsel for the defendant List):
Q. General, I have just a few questions to put to you. One of them concerns the fact whether or not I understand you correctly. You answered the Prosecutor to the effect that the order for the reprisal measures in the case of the Signal Regiment came from the 12th Army. Do you remember that fact for certain; I mean, that order came from the 12th Army?
A. Yes, it was passed on; that is how I formulated it. That is how I expressed myself. The order itself came on the basis of an order from the OKW, that for every German killed 50 to 100 Serbs had to be shot.
Q. General, what I mean is whether you are quite certain that you received it from the 12th Army.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors, please, I object to that. This is Dr. Laternser's own witness and I submit he is bound by his answers and may not argue with him. The witness has already answered the question three times.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
Q. In that particular case did the OKW issue an order? Did you know anything about that?
A. Yes, I know that instance for certain. At that time I talked to the then Colonel Kuebler. The order for the shooting of these particular Serbs in connection with the massacring of the German members of the Signal Regiment was given by the OKW and it was passed on by the Amy.
Q. And you recall that for certain?
A. Yes. very certain, indeed.
DR. LATERNSER: I have no further questions to put to this witness.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have just one more question, if your Honors please.
RECROSS EXAMINATION MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. General Pemsel, you unfortunately had a lapse in your memory with respect to the execution of 2200 Serbs at Valjevo. You have no similar lapse of memory with respect to how you got an order to retaliate for the loss of 21 German soldiers, members of the 521st Signal Regiment?
A. No, I have only stated that I know nothing about this matter.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: No further questions, your Honors.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there any questions by members of the Tribunal?
JUDGE GARTER: I would like to ask the General a question or two.
EXAMINATION BY JUDGE CARTER:
Q. General, you have testified that this order for the execution of 2100 Serbs was passed on by you?
A. Yes.
Q. That is by virtue of your office or position as chief of staff of the Plenipotentiary Commanding General in Serbia?
A. May I ask what case you are dealing with? Is it the case about which I was questioned first of all?
Q. Yes, the killing of the 22 members of the 521st Signal Battalion.
A. Yes, I remember that order. Since an active combat troops was concerned - the Signal Regiment was part of the active troops -the order was passed on by me by order of my Commanding General who was General Boehme. In this case the active troops were to attack. These cases were being worked on by the Staff of the Military Commander.
Q. In your position as Chief of Staff you were more or less familiar with orders and reports that were issued by General Boehme and came to him by virtue of his command. Is that true?
A. Yes, to the extent to which they concerned my activity as Chief of Staff of the 18th Corps; that is, tactical matters.
Q. The question I really want to put to you is this: do you know whether or not those reports indicated that order for the execution of 2100 Serbs was carried out to the extent indicated in the order?
A. I know that these measures were not carried out to the extent ordered. That was done on the basis of a discussion which we had with the Army. On that occasion I talked to the then Colonel Kuebler and also to General Foertsch and with their consent the reported the reprisal measures as being carried out in compliance with the ratio requested in the official order from higher headquarters but the reprisal measures were not actually carried out to that extent as generally with the consent of the Army these reports to higher headquarters were dressed up.
Q. Can you tell us to what extent it was carried out, if you know?
A. I can't relate that for certain. The carrying out fell into the sphere of activity of State Councillor Thurner. I myself had nothing to do with it and was in no position to check up.
JUDGE CARTER: I have no further questions.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have one or two more, if your Honors please.
RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. General Ponsel, do you recall giving an affidavit on behalf of Field Marshal List?
A. Yes.
Q. This is in List Document Book I. It is List Document No. 32 and it is List Exhibit No. 66.
DR. LATERNSER: If your Honors please, at this moment there may be no questions put concerning new topics. That should have been done at the first questioning. The Prosecutor apparently didn't do that and all he can do now is put questions in conjunction with the questions put by the Tribunal.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Dr. Laternser has done this on many occasions, as I am sure he will recall. This is not a new matter but something which arises out of one or two questions from the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed briefly.
Q. In that affidavit, General Pemsel -- I am talking about false reports which you gave to the OKW -- you said and I quote: "I can no more remember individual examples and figures." Do you want to modify that statement now?
A. No.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: That is all.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be excused.
Pardon me.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q. General, in this affidavit to which Mr. Fenstermacher refers at this point you had stated that you do not recall numbers concerning the individual incidents. Is that correct?
A. Yes, it is.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be excused.
MR. FULKERSON: The Prosecution is ready now to cross examine the affiant, Heinrich von Behr.
THE PRESIDENT: You may call him as a witness.
MR. FULKERSON: Incidentally, this affiant's affidavit appears in Dehner Document Book VII at page 103 as Dehner Document No. 38, Exhibit 34.
HEINRICH VON BEHR, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn.
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FULKERSON:
Q. Please give your name and birthdate--birthplace.
A. Heinrich yon Behr, born September 1887, in Xoenigsberg, Prussia.
Q. What is your profession, please, sir?
A. At last I was Major General.
Q. You were a professional soldier then?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your command during the period July 1943 till March 1944?
A. At that time I was Commander of the 173rd reserve Division in Croatia.
Q. In what Corps Area were you located, General?
A. In the area of the 69th Corps.
Q. Were you subordinate to the 69th Corps the whole time that you were down there?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. General, there are several statements that you made here in your affidavit that I would like to have clarified if I could. You make this statement: "If any of the Croat population were working for the Germans, it was only on the basis of voluntary employment contracts."
A. Yes, that is to the best of my knowledge.
Q. Well, that is one thing I want to find out about -- the extent of your knowledge. What was it? What did you know about the machinery whereby persons who were employed by the Germans were employed? What agency did it? Who was in charge of it? What was the connection between that agency and the Wehrmacht, if any, etc.
? Just describe that briefly to us, if you will.
A. I do not recall that any longer. I am today in no position anymore to make such statements. I only know what I also expressed in my affidavit. To the best of my knowledge, there were some contracts of work. In any case, the population was never forced by the troops to carry out any services for them.
Q. Well, I am going to show you a document here and ask you if you have ever seen it. It is in Book XVI, NOKW-673, page 63 of the English and 110 of the German. Now, I am going to anticipate you to some extent. I realize that this did not have directly to do with your division, but I want you to look it over and with particular reference to paragraph d.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you kindly give the citation again, please?
MR. FULKERSON: Yes, sir. This is NOKW-673. It is on page 63 of the English, of Book XVI. It has to do, if your Honors please, if you don't have your books before you, with the intention of the 2nd Panzer Army of recruiting the male population of the islands off the Croatian coast for employment on the construction of fortifications, and the paragraph to which I direct the witness's attention is paragraph d, which reads, "The rest of the men are available to the Fortress Engineer Staff for construction work on the coastal fortifications."
Q. Did you get a chance to look this over, General?
A. I do not recall ever to have seen this order. Furthermore, the contents are not of any great importance for the troops of the Division because the troops subordinated to me were not committed along the coast. Therefore, I could not remember haying seen this order at any time.
Q. Well, I know, General, but I am just trying to find out the profundity of your information about this subject that you have volunteered a statement about here. Are you prepared to say that -
A. I can only repeat that.
Q. In other words, you don't know anything about these Croatians having been drafted for labor by the Wehrmacht in this particular instance?
A. No, I don't know anything about that. At least in my area I made no observations to the effect that Croatians were drafted for services.
Q. And you don't know what German agencies handled the collection and recruiting, whether it was forcible recruiting or whether it was voluntary?
A. No, I don't know that.
Q. So, when you say -- when you make this statement in your affidavit here that these people were all working voluntarily for the Germans, you really don't know what you are talking about, do you?
A. I have stated that to the best of my knowledge and to the extent to which I can give an opinion about this today.
Q. I know, but, General, you did not even put this qualifications in your affidavit; you just made a bold assertion without any qualification at all.
A. Well, I said it because at the time I did make those observations, but today I can't say what agencies dealt with these matters.
Q. You mean your memory has deteriorated since the 15th of November -of December, when this affidavit was made?
A. No. My memory has not deteriorated since that time.
Q. All right, now, let's pass on down to paragraph 3 of your affidavit. Do you have the affidavit before you, General?
A. No. Could I please have it?
Q. Now, in the last sentence there you say that the German Military Commander Staff could not issue either orders or any other instructions to the German authorities or to the police units -- and I may point out parenthetically for the information of the Court that the phrase "or to the police units" is omitted in the translation. What staff were you talking about here, General?
A The police units which were committed in my area could not be given any orders, neither from me nor from the Commander agencies, as I know and I still remember. They were independent.
Q Well, that is what I am grabbing at. But what agencies? Here you say the German Military Commando Staff -- Do you mean the Staff of the Corps or what?
A Corps and Division. That is what I mean.
Q All right, now, you say they couldn't issue orders be the German authorities or to the police units. What German authorities are you talking about?
AAbout agency of the Division as well as that of the Corps. That is, the 69th Corps.
Q Excuse me, General, we are talking at cross purposes. You state here in this sentence that the Staff--and you have explained that you mean by that the Corps Staff and the Division Staff-couldn't issue orders either to the police units or to the German authorities. Now, what I want to know is, what German authorities you are talking about? Aside from the police units, what other German authorities were there?
A I mean the Wehrmacht agencies -- the agencies of the Wehrmacht. That is what I mean by German Commando agencies.
Q I still think we are talking at cross purposes. You have mentioned two different groups of Germans in Croatia over whom you say the Wehrmacht had no control. Now, one of them is the police. What I want to know is, what were -- what was the other one?
A The offices of the SD which was active down there.
Q All right, the SD. Now what else? You don't include the SD as part of the police. You are making a distinction between the SD and the police. Any other German agencies down there?
A For instance, the German authorities of the civilian administration, the Legation, for instance. But above all, I mean the police units which were down there.
Those could not receive any orders or instructions from the Commando agencies down there.
Q Do you mean that, generally speaking, the German Wehrmacht could not exercise authority over the police, or do you mean that the German Wehrmacht never could exorcise authority ever the police?
AAt the time when I was down there -- and that is the only period of time we are concerned with--that could not happen. It was always stressed even by the Corps that the police was not subordinated to the Division and that it operated completely independently.
Q And it is your testimony now that the police units, including the police troops, were never subordinate to the Wehrmacht in your Corps Area the whole time you were down there?
A To the best of my knowledge, no. During that time there was no subordination.
Q So that if General Dehner testified on the witness stand that from time to time the police troops were subordinate to the Wehrmacht for certain tactical operations, General Dehner didn't know what he was talking about?
DR. GAWLIK: I object. If the witness is to be confronted by statements made by General Dehner, I should like to ask that the witness be furnished the record containing the statements made by General Dehner. I object to the manner in which the Prosecution has submitted it.
THE PRESIDENT: The question was argumentative, and we should avoid that at this time more than at any other state.
Q General, what were the regulations concerning the use of Wehrmacht uniforms by persons who were not members of the Wehrmacht in Croatia? That is to say, were there any regulations which prohibited civilians from wearing Wehrmacht uniforms?
A I am convinced that there were such regulations. However, at the moment I don't knew exactly whether there were such regulations down there and also I can't remember having actually seen them.