Counsel for the defendant Beiglboeck may have an order of the Court which will assist him in procuring any record of the witness Hoellreiner at Erlanger. If a request will be presented it will be immediately signed and accomplished so that counsel will be aided in every way by the Tribunal in gaining the information he desires. And, of course, counsel for defense may rebut the testimony of this witness. Under all circumstances the weight to be given to this witness called before the Tribunal is for the Tribunal to determine. Counsel will have the privilege of cross examining the witness. The witness may be recalled to the stand being under custody under order of the Tribunal, he will be under guard at 1:30 o'clock this afternoon.
Dr. GAWLIK: (for the defendant Hoven) Mr. President, in the list of exhibits which are to be admitted which was given to you yesterday there is document exhibit 523, NO-2313. I intend to have a handwriting expert text the correctness of this document and offer an opinion. An expert is here in the building and I ask the decision of the Tribunal that the handwriting expert be allowed to examine the document in the General Secretary's office.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the number of that exhibit, counsel?
Dr. GAWLIK: 523, Mr. President.
Mr. HARDY: Your Honor, I haven't heard the remarks of counsel. I had the switch on the wrong number and didn't get the translation. Repeat it please.
Dr. GAWLIK: Exhibit 523, NO-2313 has a pencil notation on it which was discussed here in court. I want to have a handwriting expert examine it.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel is correct. A handwriting expert produced by counsel for the defendant Hoven may examine the document in the of fice of the Secretary General under supervision by an official of that agency.
The clerk of this court will advise the Secretary General that the Tribunal has made this order for that examination.
Mr. HARDY: What reference is that - to the notation of the date which is on the document?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
Dr. GAWLIK: And then on the list, Mr. President, there are documents, Exhibit 526 and 527, NO-2366 and N0-2380, which are now to be finally admitted. Document 527, NO-2380 is a legal opinion by the SS judge, Dr. Morgan. I believe it is not permissible for legal opinions to be handed in as exhibits.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel may present the objection when the exhibits are offered.
Dr. GAWLIK: Then I should like to call the attention of the Tribunal to the fact that the final decision about the admission of the affidavit of the defendant Hoven, NO-429, Exhibit 281, has not been reached yet. The Tribunal postponed this decision until after the defendant Hoven was examined. I should be grateful if I could have this decision so that I can consider it in writing my closing brief.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that exhibit contained in the list which is before the Tribunal?
Mr. HARDY: Subject to the president it was admitted in evidence due to the fact it was not stricken by the Tribunal I assumed it was admitted.
THE PRESIDENT: The exhibit will be admitted in evidence.
Mr. HARDY: I believe, your Honor, defense counsel was to prepare a list as to how many remainder of supplemental documents would be presented and that list was to be ready here this morning at 9:30. I wonder if they have it ready?
THE PRESIDENT: Has defense counsel prepared the list suggested by the Tribunal yesterday afternoon as to the exhibits they propose to offer?
Any defense counsel now prepared to offer any further documents?
Mr. HARDY: Your Honor, I am not in a position to put any more prosecution evidence in at this time in as much as this document marked for identification, the index, which I checked yesterday afternoon there is a couple of errors in it - inasmuch they skipped some of the documents in cutting the stencils. I am having it recut and the books put together in a proper form. I didn't check it before they cut it but I won't have it ready until afternoon but I assure you I can take up the rest of the afternoon with the witness Hoellreiner and I think I will have my identification documents ready.
Dr. FLEMING: Mr. President, the list of when it might be expected that defense counsel could offer further material has not been completed because we have not been able to get in touch with some of the defense counsel. But, yesterday I talked with the Secretary General about the subject of translations and he told me we had to expect the translation branch to take about 2 weeks from the time documents are turned over to them before completed, Now, in the last discussion which the Court had with defense counsel the Tribunal said that all supplemental documents would be accepted which were handed in to the translation by the 3rd of July. I believe there will be considerable difficult if the Translation actually takes two weeks for completion.
THE PRESIDENT: If counsel understood the Tribunal to answer that all documents handed in for translation by the 3 July would be accepted it is in error. I am informed by the Translation bureau that counsel Fleming for the defendant Mrugowsky on last Friday, June 27 handed in I think 153 pages of a document to be translated. That was entirely too late to hand documents in for Translation. That means a task of 153 man hours to translate. I can't understand why counsel was so slow in handing those to the translation department. To hand them in on June 27 is too late to be presented for admission -- was entirely too late and beyond any human possibility of having them ready.
Dr. FLEMING: Mr. President part of the documents came into my hands only very late but I would like to point out something further. The closing briefs of the defense counsel - I don't have all the figures together, but as far as I can see now will be 1800 to 2000 pages. The Tribunal said that closing briefs had to be ready by 7 July. If the translation takes 2 weeks we will not be able to get the closing briefs in time and Mr. Vartena told me yesterday that would take up this matter with the Tribunal once again.
Mr. HARDY: As I understood it, your Honor, the Tribunal was anxious to have the colsing briefs into the translation department before 7 July and then the translation would have the closing briefs of defense counsel Prosecution could read in German using some of our German speaking attornies. And, if we had any answers to make we could do so but to file the briefs in the original language by 7 July and then it could be send to translation and by the time the case is completed, the Tribunal would have the briefs in very good form.
THE PRESIDENT: My recollection is that counsel for prosecution is correct. That the briefs were to be made by 7 July in the German language and copies of the briefs in German furnished to the Prosecution. The matter of briefs is an entirely different proposition from the matter of the documents which are evidence because as the Tribunal stated the Tribunal has insisted, that the evidence be all before the Tribunal very promptly. I don't know - the Translation department has been working very hard and I understood they would have some of the defense documents available from day to day, today, yesterday and tomorrow. Can any German defense counsel give the Tribunal any information as to how many documents are in the hands of the translation department besides the 153 pages on behalf of the defendant Mrugowsky? Has any defense counsel present before the Tribunal this morning any untranslated documents in the hands of the translation department.?
MR. HARDY: If your Honor please. If your Honor can see fit to rocess for 15 minutes, the Prosecution will endeavor to got our documents marked for identification and bring then here and present them at this time. In the meantime, defense counsel can have a conference and make out a list of just what documents they have at the translators and what documents they intend to produce.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would suggest, or indeed insist, that defense counsel furnish some data of that nature to the Tribunal. Could not the Prosecution call the witness Hollenreiner this morning.
MR. HARDY: We can call the witness Hollenreiner any time your Honor pleases.
MR. PRESIDENT: I suggest that you call the witness Hollenreiner now.
MR. HARDY: It will take several minutes for him to be brought up from the jail, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Naturally.
DR. FLEMMING: Mr. President, this noon, after the recess, I shall hand in a list of the defense documents which are not yet translated.
MR. HARDY: It should also be called to the attention of the defense counsel that attorney Steinbauer should be called to the Courtroom for this examination of Hollenreiner.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recces; the witness Hollenreiner may be called and the Tribunal advised as soon as he is ready. Counsel in the meantime will endeavor to procure this list of his documents.
MR. HARDY: Thank you, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Flemming?
DR. FLEMMING: Mr. President, I have just heard that Dr. Steinbauer has probably gone to Furth in connection with this Hollenreiner matter so that he will not be present. I shall find out immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: I don't understand how Dr. Steinbauer could have done that because the Tribunal has signed no order that will enable him to procure the information which he desires. He has probably gone to his office to prepare the order.
If you can advise him the witness will be called this morning; but he cannot have left, because if he is going without that order it would be useless.
The Tribunal will now be in recess until the Tribunal is advised that counsel is ready with the witness Hollenreiner.
(A recess was taken.)
MR. MARSHALL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. HARDY: The prosecution wishes to recall the witness Karl Hoellenrainer to the witness stand, Your Honors.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal will summon tho witness Hoellenrainer.
KARL HOELLENRAINER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE SEBRING: You will raise your right hand and be sworn. I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(Witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel may proceed.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Witness, your name again is Karl Hoellenrainer?
A. Yes,
Q. Witness, at the close of your testimony the other day, you were proceeding to tell the Tribunal about your activities after your arrival at the Dachau concentration camp?
A. Yes.
Q. How, when did you arrive for the first time at the Dachau concentration camp?
A That was about the middle of July.
Q And then you stayed at the camp hospital for a period of one or two days?
A In Auschwitz?
Q No, in Dachau, after your arrival?
A Yes, Yes, in Dachau.
Q And then you were examined physically and also X- rayed?
A Yes.
Q Then after you had been physically examined and X-rayed, what happened to you?
A Then, we came into a so-called surgical department of the hospital.
There were 40 of us men. Then a doctor came to us, a man from the Luftwaffe, and he examined us. We had to take our clothes off and, line up. And he said, "Now, you will be given good food, as good as you have never had it, and then you will be hungry. You won't get anything to eat, and you will have to drink sea water." One of the prisoners whose name was Rudi Taubmann jumped up and refused. He was in an experiment, a cold water experiment, and he didn't want to be in any more experiments. The doctor from the Luftwaffe said, "If you are not quiet, and want to rebel I will shoot you on the spot. The doctor from the Luftwaffe always had a pistol, and then we were all quiet. For about one week we got cookies, sweibach, and brown sugar. There were about 21 little cookies, and three or four little pieces of dextrose. Otherwise, we got nothing. The eight days...
Q Just a moment. Did you at any time volunteer for these experiments?
A No.
Q Were you asked whether or not you wished to volunteer for the experiments?
A No.
Q Were any of the other inmates asked if they would like to volunteer?
A No
Q Wasn't the young Mettbach a volunteer, the youngest Mettbach?
A I know only one Ernst Mettbach from Furth, but I don't know whether he volunteered.
Q Was Ernst Mettbach in the experiments throughout that is, did he complete the experiments?
A No, he was only there a short time, two or three days maybe. Then, the doctor from Luftwaffe put him out, and where he went I don't know.
Q How, did the Professor ask anyone for their approval before they were subjected to the sea water experiments?
A No.
Q Did the professor or any of the other Luftwaffe physicians talk to the inmates and advise them as to the hazards of the experiment prior to the commencement of the actual experiments?
A. No.
Q Now, will you, in detail, tell the Tribunal just what food the experimental subjects received prior to the experiments, during the course of the experiments, and after the experiments; and in doing so, witness, kindly talk very slowly and distinctly so that the interpreters will be able to translate you mere efficiently.
A Yes. At first we get potatoes, milk, and then we got these cookies and dextrose and zweibach. That was about one week. Then we got nothing. Then the doctor from the Luftwaffe said, "How, you have to drink sea water, and you will be hungry." That was about one or two weeks. This Rudi Taubmann, as I already said, got excited and didn't want to participate, and the doctor from the Luftwaffe said, "If you get excited and mutiny, I will shoot you," and then we were all quiet. Then we began to drink sea water. I drank the worst kind, that was yellowish. We drank it two or three times a day, and then in the evening, we had one liter of the yellow water. There was three kinds of water, white water, and yellow water; and I drank the yellow kind. And then after a few days, the people were cursing, they had foam at their mouth. The doctor from the Luftwaffe came with a cynical laugh and said, "Now it is time to make liver punctures." I know one very well.
Q Talk more slowly, witness. Thank you.
A Yes. The first row on the left when you came in, the second bed, that was the first one. He barked like a dog. He went crazy. He had foam at his mouth. The doctor from the Luftwaffe took him down on a stretcher with a white sheet over him, and then he stuck a needle about this long (indicating) into his right side, and there was a hypodermic needle on it, and it bled, and it was very painful. We were all quiet and excited. Then when that was ever, the other prisoners had their turn. The people were crazy from thirst and hunger, but the doctor had no pity on us. He was cold like ice. He didn't take any interest in us. Then, one gypsy -- I don't know his name anymore -- he eat a little bit of bread once, or drank some water, I don't remember just what he did, the doctor from the Luftwaffe got very angry and mad.
He took the gypsy and tied him to the bed post and sealed his mouth.
Q Witness, do you mean that he put adhesive tape over this gypsy's mouth?
A Yes.
Q Go ahead, continue.
A Then a gypsy, he was on the right, a big strong, husky fellow, he refused to drink the water. He asked the doctor from the Luftwaffe to let him go. He said he couldn't stand the water. He was sick with it. The doctor from the Luftwaffe had no pity, and he said, "No, you have to drink it." The doctor from the Luftwaffe told one of his assistants to go and get a sound. Naturally, we didn't know what a sound was. Then one of his assistants came with a red tube about that long (indicating) and thrust this tube in the gypsy's mouth first and then into his stomach.
Q Just a moment. That tube was how long? How long would that be a half a meter long?
AAbout this long (indicating.)
Q That will be about a half a meter?
A Yes, about a half a meter. And then the doctor from the Luftwaffe, he took this red tube and put it in the gypsy's mouth and into his stomach. And then he poured the water down tho tube. The gypsy kneeled in front of him and beseeched him, but that doctor had no pity.
Q Witness, during the experiments were your temperature taken?
A Yes.
Q Who took your temperatures?
A There were two Frenchmen, one tall thin and one short blond one; and they took the temperatures and the doctor from the Luftwaffe took the temperatures, too.
Q When you say "the doctor from the Luftwaffe" you mean man you refer to as the professor. The professor and the doctor from the Luftwaffe are the same or arc they two different people?
A Yes.
Q I see. Thank you. Now, who performed the liver punctures?
A The doctor from the Luftwaffe carried out the liver punctures himself. Some people were given liver punctures and at the same time a lumbar puncture. The doctor from the Luftwaffe did that himself. It was very painful. Something ran out -- water or something -- I don't know what it was.
Q Well, did you receive a liver puncture?
A Yes.
Q Did the professor tell you what reason he gave you that liver puncture -- for what reason he gave you that liver puncture?
A The doctor from the Luftwaffe came to me and said, "Now, Hollenreiner, it's your turn." I was lying on the bed. I was very weak from this water and from not having anything to eat. He said, "Now, lie on your left side and take your clothes off your right side I held on to the bedstead on top of me and the doctor from the Luftwaffe sat down next to me and pushed a long needle into me. It was very painful. I said, "Doctor, what are you doing?" The doctor said, "I have to make a liver puncture so that the salt comes out of your liver."
Q Now, witness, can you tell us whether or not the subjects used in the experiments were gypsies of purely German nationality or were there some Polish gypsies, some Russian gypsies, Czechoslavakian gypsies, and so forth?
A Yes, there were about seven or eight Germans and the rest of them were all Poles and Czechs, Czech gypsies and Polish gypsies.
Q Were any of the experimental subjects ever taken out of the station room to the yard outside the experimental barracks?
A Yes, at the end when the experiments were all finished; and three people were carried out with white sheets over them on a stretcher. They were covered with sheets but I don't know whether they were dead; but we, my colleagues and I, talked about it. We never saw them again neither at work nor anywhere in the camp. We often talked about it and wondered where they were. We never saw them again. I assume that the people died.
Q Do you know where they were taken to?
A No, I don't know.
Q Well, during the course of the experiments were you weighed every day?
A Yes, we were weighed, too.
Q Was that every day or every other day?
A I don't remember exactly.
Q Well, now, after the completion of the experiments in early September what happened to you?
A When we had finished the experiments?
Q Yes.
A I told you that already. We were sent to the hospital and the doctor from the Luftwaffe came and said we were to take our clothes off and we lined up and were divided into three groups. The doctor from the Luftwaffe said, "Now you will be given good food. You have never had such good food." We were given potatoes, dextrose, cookies, milk -
Q Just a minute, witness. I am referring to the end of the
Q Just a minute, witness. I am referring to the end of the experiments, after the experiments were all completed. Could you tell us what date that was that your experiments were completed and you were transferred from the experimental station?
A The experiment lasted, maybe, four or five weeks altogether. I don't know the date.
Q Well, then, they were completed in early September. Is that correct? You arrived -
A Yes.
Q Now, after the experiments were completed did you then return to the camp proper or to the camp hospital?
A No, into the camp -- about twenty-two -- we couldn't walk. We had to help each other in walking. We were exhausted and I forgot to tell you one thing. Before we began the experiments and we had this good food for about one week the doctor took us out into the courtyard near the hospital. The doctor from the Luftwaffe came. He had a little bottle and he put a number on our chest. I had number "23." It burned and then we went back into the block. On every bed there was a number, the same number that we had on our chest and one man -- but I don't remember who it was -- one of the prisoners, said: "That is what they call the death number." Then I was scared and the prisoner said, "Yes, that is the death number so that the doctor of the Luftwaffe will know right away who is dead."
We didn't want to go on with the experiments but what choice did we have? We were just poor prisoners. We had to let them do with us what they wanted. We couldn't resist. I haven't got the power to relate everything as it......
Q All right. Just a moment. Was your bed number "23"?
A Yes.
Q Then you were considered to be experimental subject No. 23?
A Yes.
Q Were you sick during the course of the experiments, witness?
A Yes.
Q Now, witness, after the completion of the experiments in early September were you then called in and weighed to determine your weight about two weeks later?
A No, not after two weeks.
Q Were you called in and weighed one week after you had completed the experiments? Do you remember?
A I don't remember. But we were weighed.
Q You were weighed every day during the experiments?
A Yes.
Q What I want to know is, were you weighed after the completion of the experiments? For instance, you were weighed every day during the experiments; then the experiments were completed; then you were not weighed again for a period of one or two weeks. Did you get weighed one or two weeks after the completion of the experiments?
A When the experiment was all finished? No.
Q Well, now after you left the experimental block and went to the camp how long before you were able to resume work?
AA few days. Then we were given a detail at a farm in Feldmochingen. We had to work hard and the food was better than in the camp but, you know, if you are a prisoner; what did the farmers give you? A little bread, some soup -- but, in any case, it was better than in the camp; and then every evening we came back to our block and then we got the regular camp food.
Q Now, witness, were you ever subjected to any other medical experiments during the time that you were incarcerated in the concentration camps?
A No.
Q Did you ever suffer from any other diseases while you were in the concentration camps?
A Yes. When the experiments were finished I got phlegmonal. I worked for the farmer for about a week and then I come back to the camp in Dachau and had phlegmonal. That was a few months I was in the hospital. It was the same block -- not the same block where we had the experiment. It was a different building. Then I had phlegmonal. I was there about a fewmonths. Then I came out there. My leg was stiff because I have a big wound there.
Q All right, witness.
AAnd then the doctors didn't help me the hospital and I had to leave the hospital again with my bent leg and I was examined by the SS doctors but they didn't care about my leg whether it was straight or bent. They weren't interested in me at all. They said I had to go to Augsburg and work for Messerschmidt.
Q All right, witness, Did you ever have malaria while you were in the concentration camp?
A No.
MR. HARDY: At this time, your Honor, the prosecution has no further questions to put to this witness. I might call attention of the Tribunal that this witness is Case No. 23, the man -- we examined his charts and graphs, and the ones where the stenographic notes appear on the back thereof have been admittedly offered by the defendand Beiglboeck.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. STEINBAUER (Counsel for defendant Beiglboeck):
Q Witness, what was your father's name?
A My father, Rudolf Hoellenreiner.
Q What was your mother's maiden name?
A Johanna Wagner.
Q What were your grandparents' names?
A My father's parents I know only my grandmother's name, Johanna Hoellenreiner. On my mother's side, Amalia Wagner.
Q When you were examined the first time you said that you had never been convicted of any crime. Do you maintain this assertion?
A No, I have been convicted.
Q When why did you lie?
A I did not lie. I meant from the experiments.
Q The question was whether before you came to the Gestapo you had ever been convicted and punished by the police. Nothing had been said about experiments at that time. That's an excuse. Do you admit that you lied? It's much better for you.
A No, I did not lie.
Q Well, you have been convicted?
A Yes.
Q For theft?
A Yes.
Q For fraud?
A Yes.
Q For assault?
A Yes.
Q For blackmail?
A What do you mean by that?
Q Well, coercion.
A No.
Q For using a false name?
A No, I never used a false name.
Q You have to speak more slowly. We will come back to that. Then you were prosecuted for desertion?
A Yes.
Q You refused to obey your draft order?
A Yes.
Q Isn't that why you were sent to the concentration camp?
A No, just because I am a gypsy. My brothers were in the war and they came back from Russia and came to Sachsenhausen and were murdered there, because there weren't supposed to be any more gypsies in the German army.
Q What kind of a triangle did you wear in the camp?
AA black one.
Q Your wife said that you were in malaria, phlegmone, typhoid and sea-water experiments?
A No, only this one experiment, no malaria.
Q Do you admit that you lied to the young doctor who talked to you?
A No, I didn't lie to the doctor. I just told him the truth. My wife and I weren't allowed to marry. My wife had a child and it was burned in Birkenau. My sister was burned and both her children.
Q Don't get excited. I asked you whether you told the young doctor that you were in four different experiments. All you have to say is yes or no.
A I told the doctor I drank salt water.
Q Lister, Mr. Mettbach, don't evade my question after there fashion of gypsies. Give me a clear answer as a witness under oath. Did you tell the doctor that you were in other experiments, yes or no?
A No. I just drank salt water.
MR. HARDY: Your Honor, the testimony of this doctor is not in evidence before this Tribunal. I don't understand what Dr. Steinbauer is referring to.
DR. STEINBAUER: In cross examination the prosecutor repeatedly read from testimony without offering it in evidence. I have the right to ask him -
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel is correct. He may proceed, but it would be better if counsel would ask the witness when and where he spoke to this doctor and the name of the doctor if he knows it.
Q (By Dr. Steinbauer) In Erlangen did you talk to a doctor from the hospital named Dr. Kloger?
A No.
THE PRESIDENT: Give the witness the date, Counsel. Tell him when that conversation took place or is supposed to have taken place.
Q (By Dr. Steinbauer) A few weeks ago.
A I was under medical treatment in Erlangen, but I don't know any Dr. Kloger.
Q Didn't a doctor come to your house? Didn't he come to see you?
A Yes, I don't know whether it was a doctor.
Q Well, but you talked to a young gentleman?
A Yes.
Q He said he was a doctor?
A No, he didn't say he was a doctor.
Q Didn't you tell this young man that you had been in four experiments?
A No, I just told him I drank salt water, and I had a liver puncture and I had phlegmone. And this malaria and typhoid happened in these camps.
Q Now, I am asking you for the last time, witness. I don't want to waste the Court's time. Did you tell this young man, Dr. Kloger, that you were in four experiments?
A No.
Q Then how can you explain the fact that your wife told me that?
A I don't know. We went through a great deal in the camps. The Jews and the gypsies were all exterminated. We had no value in the camp.
Q Didn't this young man leave a note with his address?
A Yes.
Q Well then, you knew his name?
A How should I know if the man comes and writes this note and says his name is Kloger, but I don't know that he is a doctor.
Q Now you know because you have that note.
A Yes, and he told me to come see him.
Q Didn't you tell this doctor that you wanted to go see Commissioner Auerbach in Munich because of your many sufferings?
A Yes, because we were oppressed here in the concentration camp offices. The Nazis took everything away. We were sent to the camp and the Nazis took all our property.
Q Well then, it's true that you want to ask for a large sum of money?
A No, I haven't taken a penny.
Q But you want 20,000 marks?
A No.
Q How much do you really want?
A I haven't got anything yet. A man named Issner, from whom we made purchases before the war, his brother was exterminated in Auschwitz, and I haven't got a penny from the concentration camp office.
Q Witness, you don't understand me. I didn't ask you how much you got. I believe you are telling the truth that you haven't got anything. I just asked you how much you want to ask for?
A I haven't asked for anything yet.
Q How much do you intend to ask for? Didn't you say that you were going to ask for 20,000 marks?
A No.
Q Aren't you Uncle Karl?
A My name is Karl Hoellenrainer.
Q Didn't your relatives at Herzbruck call you Uncle Karl?
A No.
Q What is your religion?
A I am Catholic.
Q Are you married.
A Yes.
Q When and where were you married.
A I married in Erlangen.
Q When?
A In 1946.
Q What month?
A I don't remember what month.
Q Well, was it in the summer or winter?
A It was in the summer.
Q You said you were in Auschwitz?
A Yes.
Q Were you in the Birkenau extermination camp?
A Yes.
Q Weren't the gypsies in a big camp there?
A Yes.
Q Were there women and children there?
A Yes.
Q Did you have a wife there?
A Yes, my fiancee, Ida Schmidt. She was gassed. She was burned. I never sow her again.
Q Didn't you beat this woman till she bled?
A No.
Q Did you ever beat her?
A No.
Q In what block were you there?