AI would answer that by saying that there were twenty-five to thirty people -- that is every day twenty-five to thirty people Would visit the strong rooms so as to carry out some official business there. The activities in this connection were carried out by no more than four to five officials; that is the sorting out and preparation of this material.
QAnd everyone under your supervision were sworn to secrecy? They didn't talk about this business; they were forbidden to do so, were they not?
AThere were strict instructions in the bank that secret matters must not be talked about, not even with colleagues of one's own department so far as that colleague did not himself work in the same matter.
QWell, this was a super-secret matter, wasn't it? It wasn't the ordinary secrecy that attended. Wasn't there a special secrecy surrounding these deliveries?
AThat is right. It was quite an exceptional affair and it had to be kept especially secret, so that I should like to say that it was kept secret over and above the limits of ordinary secrecy. I had been strictly forbidden to talk to anybody about it and I had said at the time when I said farewell to President Puhl, after the first conversation, that I would inform the loading officials in the department of the cashier, because my superiors must be informed about this business.
QWas there a report made about these Melmer deposits to the Directorate?
ANo, that was relayed with exceptional secrecy and the deliveries which had beendealt with were only accounted for in an account called "Melmer". That account was sent to the foreign exchange department by the cashier's department and they, in turn, would deal with it further, together with the Directorate of the Reichsbank.
QWell, the Directorate had to approve the handling of this type of thing, did it not? You weren't allowed to handle materials like this without the approval of the bank Directorate?
AThose matters particularly had to be dealt with and all instructions had to be given by the Board of Directors, or they had to pass on these matters, so that I could never act independently or do anything independently.
Generally the instructions were given in writing and they were signed by at least two members of the Board of Directors when they reached the cashier's department; so that this was quite an unusual case, that in this case there were oral instructions.
QBy the way, Mr. Toms, you have seen the film this neon-time? We have shown you a film, haven't we?
AYes.
QAfter seeing that film, are you able to say whether or not that represents a fair representation of the appearance of some of the shipments that were received by the Reichsbank from the SS?
AI can answer that by saying that this film and the pictures which I have seen in it is typical for Melmer deliveries. Perhaps I should limit it in one sense, though, by saying that the quantities as shown in this film didn't represent the same quantity of gold which came with the first deliveries. Only later did these amounts increase so that the quantities which we have seen in this film were delivered. They weren't dealt with at the Reichsbank at the time, or hadn't beendealt with then. They were, of course, in boxes or trunks which were locked. But generally, as a matter of fact, the material which I have seen in that film is typical for a delivery at the Melmer.
QAll right, sir. Now, approximately -- I don't expect a completely accurate answer, but approximately how many shipments did you receive of this stuff from the SS?
AAs near as I can remember at the moment, there must have been more than seventy deliveries, possibly seventy-six or seventy-seven. I can't tell you exactly how many but that must be about the right figure.
QVery well. I have no further questions.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. SAUTER:
QWitness, what is your occupation?
AA councilor of the Reichsbankrat.
QWhere did you live?
ABerlin, Steglits; and after my home was bombed I lived at Potsdam, No Fahrland.
QDid you volunteer for the examination of the prosecution or how did y happen to be interrogated-
AI was asked.
QPlease, will you wait until I have finished my question so that the interpreters can catch up with us?
AI was ordered here.
QBy when?
AThe prosecution.
QAre you a free man?
AYes, I am free.
QDid you receive that order in writing?
ANo. 1 was asked orally yesterday to cone to Frankfurt -- or rather Nurnberg.
QWhere are you living? In Frankfurt at the moment?
AYes, I am.
QMr. Toms, where did you live on the 8th of May? That is a week ago today?
AOn the 8th of hay this year?
QYou are Mr. Tons, aren't you?
AYes.
QYes, on the 8th of May, a week ago today.
A- I lived at Frankfurt.
QThere you were interrogated, weren't you?
AThat is quite right. I was interrogated at Frankfurt.
QThat is the affidavit.-
AYes, the affidavit.
Q -- the affidavit which the prosecutor has just put to you?
AYes, that is right.
QHow did the affidavit cone about? Did you volunteer as a witness or how did this happen?
AI volunteer, yes. I want to point out to you that already a year ago when I was working at Frankfort, I approached American forces and volunteered to snake a statement about the details of that part of the business which was known to me at the Reichsbank.
QI see. So last year you offered yourself as a witness?
AYes. I wouldn't say as a witness in this matter, though. I merely placed myself at their disposal as far as the clarifying of Reichsbank business was concerned, for American purposes.
QDid you ever discuss this ratter with the President of the Reichsbank. Funk?
ANo, never during my employment, my service, did I have an opportunity to talk to minister funk.
QDid you have positive knowledge, perhaps from some other source, when ther President of the Reichsbank Funk had exact knowledge of these affairs, of these matters, or is that also unknown to you?
AI can't say anything about that either because these matters happened on a higher level which I couldn't judge.
QThen I would be interested to hear something about this deposit or whatever you call it. This was under the name "Melmer"?
AI want to point out that this wasn't a deposit but that these were deliveries which were delivered under the name "Melmer" and that to some extent this was business which the Reichsbank had to carry out and which was the meditating over of those articles; and they were affairs the Reichsbank would deal with. They, shall we say -- the Reichsbank, was acting for the SS in the exploination of these articles.
Q. Why did this item -- whether we call it a deposit or anything else--
why was it given the name 'MELMER'? Did you ask anybody about that, witness?
A.I have already mentioned at the beginning of my examination that this was a particularly secret affair in connection with which the name of the supplier was not to appear. In this case, therefore, there was a specific instruction from the Vice-president, Puhl, which was decisive of the way this affair was dealt with.
Q.In this strong-room, where these things were kept, did only officials of the Reichsbank get in there, or did other persons also have access to it, for instance, customers of the strong-room, of the safes?
A.The Reichsbank didn't have any private customers, that is to say, we didn't have any closed deposits that might have belonged to customers of the Reichsbank -- at least not in those vaults. Deposits from private customers were in another vault, so that a contact between the deposits of the bank and the deposits of the customers wasn't possible.
Q.But officials?
A.Quite a number of them could get there. Of course, Mr. Puhl has said so here.
Q.There is one thing I am not clear about: On one side you have told us that these articles were openly lying about on tables so that everybody could see them and on the other hand you said towards the end of your statement that these things were kept in locked boxes and trunks. Now, what is the situation there? And please be slow.
A.I have stated that these matters were delivered in closed boxes and trunks, and stored in them. On the occasion when they were dealt with, when the individual deliveries were dealt with, the delivery which was about to be dealt with, of course, was opened. The contents had to be counted and weighed, and that, of course, could only be done by spreading the contents out. But once counted, once investigated, then they were locked in new containers.
Q.Did you on your own initiative perhaps talk to Witness Puhl? After all, you were a high official in the bank. And did you say you were against this entire business and had any objections to it. Please think very carefully of the answer to this question, because you are under oath,
A.First of all, I want to answer that I belonged to the group of intermediate officials. And then, of course, as a matter of course or let me put it this way: If an official has worked for thirty years or longer for an authority in which he has discovered during all those years that the directors were without blemish, without blame, then he can't have any objections when in a special case he is instructed to keep secrecy with regard to a business which is something unusual and he wouldn't object to carrying out this order. I have already told you that the conception, "booty," wasn't unknown to us officials in the Reichsbank, because there was the order that captured gold or all booty goods which had been returned by the Armed Forces were to be sent direct to the Cashier of the Reich Government, and we in the Reich Government and we in the bank, of course, thought that any booty of the SS troops would go the way into the Reichsbank, and an official of the Reichsbank can't very well fight against such an order. If the Directors of the Bank give him some instructions, then he will have to carry them cut, and of course he must observe the oath which he swore -- quite.
QSo that, Witness, if I understand you correctly, then you are telling us that at the beginning, at any rate, you considered that the matter was a correct one, is that right, at the beginning?
AAt the beginning, yes. In fact, I considered it correct all the way through.
QDid you ever have any doubt that this might be criminal, to be brief?
AI would have had the doubt certainly if I had had the knowledge and experience then which I have today. As far as that is concerned, I kept my doubts; I couldn't admit them, because the affair wasn't only known to me but the directors of the bank and known to the Chief of the Cashier's Department. The valuables of the strong-room were checked every night by a deputy director of the Cashier's Department. I only had the technical procedure under me, as far as this was concerned, and responsibility for the correctness of this particular action wasn't within my competence.
Q I don't know about responsibility, but, Witness, I asked you, did you ever have any doubts, and when did the moment arrive when you considered the whole affair criminal?
Did you consider it criminal?
A We assumed that these were goods which the SS brought from towns in the East, because they participated in the fight for Warsaw and then afterwards they captured this material in houses, and they delivered them to our Bank as booty.
You can't say that if in this connection a military department supplies us with booty goods an official who is responsible for dealing with such matters could consider deliveries as being criminal.
Q.When taking over these articles, did you think or did the vice-president Puhl, tell you or at least hint to you that these gold articles might have been taken away from victims in concentration camps?
ANo.
QYou didn't think of that, did you?
ANo, never. On one occasion we had the name, Auschwitz, and once the name Lublin, on a slip of paper which we found. I was going to say, if I didn't say it -- but I am telling you know, that in connection with Lublin we found this remark on some packet of Bank-notes which came in to be dealt with, and were then returned to the Polish Bank for cashing in. Naturally enough, the same parcels being dealt with by the bank came back again. Consequently, here the instruction was that these couldn't be deliveries from a concentration camp, since that had come trough ordinary bank channels. The camp at Auschwitz -- well I can't say anything about that today, whether these were deliveries, whether such slips of paper were contained in those deliveries, but it is possible there were slips attached to some notes so that in the case of some foreign bank-notes they might have originated from concentration camps but there Were certainly instructions according to which prisoners of war or prisoners could exchange currency into some other currency in the camp, so that through legal channels such deliveries could have occured.
QIf I understand you correctly, witness, then, the sense, the meaning of what you just told us is that even when in 1943 you saw notes on certain things which said, "Auschwitz" and Lublin," that even then you considered the matter legal, didn't you?
AYes.
QWell, then, why do you say in your affidavit -- though it isn't sworn -dated the 8th of May, 1936 -- why did you there picture the story somewhat differently? Perhaps I can read it to you, and you can tell me whether I misunderstand it or the official might have misunderstood you taking it down.
First of all, it is to be assumed you considered it legal. I quote:
"One of the first indications for the origin of these articles arose when it was noticed that a packet of bills, presumably valuable" -
AThey were bank-notes.
QI see.
"--that a packet of bills were stamped Lublin."
AThis occurred early in 1943.
Q "-- it could be gathered from the fact that some articles bore the stamp "Auschwitz." You are saying, "We all know these places were the sites of concentration camps. In connection with the tenth delivery in November, 1942"-that was earlier, wasn't it -- "gold teeth appeared, and the quantity of gold teeth grew to an unusual extent."
So far the quotation from your unsworn statement dated the 8th of Any will you please tell us, Is this meant to be the same as you just said a little earlier or is there a difference in your opinion?
AWell -
QPlease wait a minute. (Very brief pause.) Go ahead.
AThat in my opinion tallies with my statement. WE couldn't assume chat deliveries which came through the concentration camp had to be absolutely illegal, We only ascertained that gradually as those supplies grow, increased. A delivery of notes from concentration camps, even, need not be illegal. It might have been some official deal. And most of all, we don't know the regulations applicable to concentration camps. It is perfectly possible that these people had the right to sell the articles in their possession or in some way raise some money.
QDollar notes which you have also seen in that film would hardly be sold by anybody.
A May I point out to you that I was not of the opinion that these bank notes necessarily had to come from concentration camps.
I had only said that the word "Lublin" was on some of the packets of bank notes. That might have been a pointer to the concentration camp, but it didn't necessarily mean that these particular notes would have to come from that concentration camp, and the same applies to Auschwitz. The name Auschwitz suddenly appeared. There may have been a certain suspicion, but there wasn't proof as far as we were concerned nor did we suspect that we, on our part, should now have objected to these deliveries of the SS.
QMr. Witness, apparently, and because of this conception of it, you didn't use the occasion to talk to Vice President Puhl or the directorate and report to them or to offer any doubts; you didn't have any cause for that?
AI told Vice president puhl about the composition of these deliveries, and I did so a few months after the first delivery arrived. I told him about the character of these deliveries and that was known to Puhl therefore. If there were any objections to be raised in connection with these deliveries, then they should have come from President Puhl in this connection. He knew what the story was, what the connections were.
QBut you just told us earlier that the character of these deliveries didn't seem peculiar to you. You considered that it was booty. And now you thank that you have pointed out to Vice President Puhl what this character was and that be might have considered them peculiarly.
AI didn't say that President Puhl must have noticed anything peculiar. All I said was that, if any objections were to be raised in this connection, then it had to come from President Puhl since he was aware of the character of these deliveries just as much as I was. And, if a suspicion did arise or had to come, then that should have taken place much more with President Puhl than with me.
QMr. Witness you told us earlier that special secrecy was ordered In this connection, but at the same time you have mentioned that other affairs, otter matters quite apart from this affair, other businesses, also occurred for which, apparently, special secrecy had also been ordered; is that true?
AYes.
Q You needn't give us any names, but I'd only like to know what other affairs, what other business was that?
AThese were matters which had something to do with the conduct of the war, shall we say business, which has something to do with gold, foreign currency, and such.
QThey weren't criminal affairs, therefore, were they?
ANo, not criminal.
QThen, witness, -
THE PRESIDENT:The Tribunal thinks that this is getting too far awary from the point to ask him about other deliveries.
DR. SAUTER:Very well, but the questions are put anyway. BY DR. SAUTER:
QWitness, regarding this secrecy business, I would be interested, with regards to this SS delivery, to know regarding these deliveries whether they were used and when they arrived at the Reichsbank. It appears, according to documents I have, that they were always accounted for. They were accounted for by the chief cashier's department.
AYes.
QAnd to whom were these accounts sent?
AThey were sent to the Reichsfuehrer SS office direct; that is to say, Melmer collected them personnally from the bank.
QDidn't they go to any other departments?
AAnd then they were officially passed on to the foreign currency department.
QTo the foreign currency department, were they? That's the State Deportment, isn't that?
ANo, it's the department of the Reichsbank which in turn is the connection to the directorate.
QDidn't these accounts also go to the Reich Ministry of Finance?
AThe liaison man, Melmer, always received three -- I beg your pardon, two accounts, in duplicate. Whether the Reichsfuehrer's office sent one copy to the Reich Ministry of Finance, that's something I don't know.
QWere these matters treated really secretly in connection with these accounts?
AYes.
QFor instance, when you accounted for the dealings with the Municipal Pawn Broker's Office?
AWhen we accounted for that the supply was not named.
QWhere did those gold teeth go?
ATo the Prussian State Hint. They measured them down and then the gold was separated and the fine gold was returned to the Reichsbank.
QWitness, you had said earlier -- I don't quite know at the moment when but I think it was at the beginning of '43 -- that certain articles had arrived stamped "Auschwitz". I think you said the beginning of '43.
AYes, but I can't tell you the exact date now.
QYou are saying, "We all knew that there was a concentration camp there." Did you really know that as early as the beginning of '43. Mr. Witness?
AI know only now.
QYes, now we all know it. I am talking about at the time at which this happened.
AI can't say that for certain. I made that statement on the strength -- Oh, I beg your pardon; there's something I just remembered. The utilization of these deliveries was probably carried out as late as '45, and at that time something about Auschwitz had become known.
QBut yours aid under number 14 of your statement that one of the first clues of the source of these items, apparently originating in concentration camps, occurred when it was noticed that a parcel of paper was stamped with "Lublin". This was early in '43. And another clue could be gathered when it was found that same items bore the stamp "Auschwitz". "I've already emphasized before for a very good reason that we all knew that these cases were the sites of concentration camps." That's your statement, and I now repeat the question. Of course we all know it now, but did you as an official of the Reichsbank know, as early as the beginning of '43, that there was the huge concentration camp at Auschwitz?
ATo that positive type of question I must say no, I didn't, but -
THE PRESIDENT:He did not say anything about a huge concentration camp at Auschwitz.
DR. SAUTER:No, that was a rhetorical exaggeration of mine. I said that we knew from the trial about the huge concentration camp at Auschwitz.
THE PRESIDENT:Did he know it? Did he know that there was a huge concentration camp in 1943? He has not said so.
THE WITNESS:I will say no to your question, but this is the point: I assumed that this slip with "Auschwitz" came from a delivery which was probably made in '43, but that it was not utilized until much later. And I am stating that after I had been to Frankfurt that the name Auschwitz was known to mo, and I admit that this may be an exaggeration as far as I did retrospectively say to myself that there was a concentration camp there, you see, but I know that at the time, somehow or other, we became attached with the name Auschwitz; and I think we even asked a question about the connections; but I don't think we got an answer and we didn't ask again. BY DR. SAUTER:
QWell then, Mr. Witness, I've got one last question. The prosecution have shown us the document 3947-PS today. I repeat, 3947-PS. Apparently, this is the draft for a memorandum which some department in the Reichsbank seems to have prepared for the directors of the Reichsbank. It is dated the 31st of March, 1944, and it contains the sentence on page 2 which I shall read to you because it refers to defendant Funk and the defendant Goering. This is the sentence:
"The Reichsmarshall of the Greater German Reich, the deputy of the Four Year Plan, informed the German Reichsbank, in a letter of the 19th of March 1944, a copy of which is enclosed," -- incidentally, the copy isn't in my hand -- "that considerable amounts of gold and silver objects, jewels and so forth, at the Main Office of the Board of Trustees East should be delivered to the Reichsbank according to the order issued by Minister of the, Reich," -- that's the defendant -- "Funk and Graf Schwerin Krosigk. The utilization of these objects should be accomplished in the same way as the Melmer deliveries."
That's the end of my quotation.
Defendant Punk tells me that he knew nothing about such instructions and that such an agreement or such a letter was entirely unknown to him and that he did not know anything at all about metal deliveries.
MR. DODD:I must object to the form of the question. I have objected before, and it is a long story of the answer before the question is put et the witness. I think it is an unfair way to examine.
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Sauter, you know, do you not, that you are not entitled to give evidence yourself? You are not entitled to say what Punk told you, unless he has given the evidence.
DR. SAUTER:Mr. President, this is not one of my witnesses. This is a witness who has volunteered for the Prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT:It is not a question of whose witness he is. You were stating what Funk told you, and you were not referring to anything Funk said in evidence, and you are not entitled to do that. BY DR. SAUTER:
Q.I should be interested in hearing from you when you were Reichsbankrat whether you knew anything about this order which is mentioned in the letter of 31 March, which is mentioned in connection with the department of the Reichsbank. Was defendant Punk concerned with this?
A.I think I can remember that, in fact, instructions did exist which stated that gold of the Chief Trustee's Department, East, should be surrendered to the Reichsbank. I am not absolutely certain whether this document is just a draft made by the Deputy Director of the Chief Cashier's Department, made for the Directorate at the time I was there, but I am pretty certain that originally such instructions were given, but I want to point out that the Chief Cashier's Department, on the basis of orders from the Pine Gold Department, were against accepting these valuables since, technically speaking, they were not in a position permanently to assume responsibility for such considerable deliveries of all sorts. Through Funk's intervention, it was achieved later on that this instruction was cancelled. The deliveries of the Chief Trustee's Department, East, to the Reichsbank, especially of the Chief Cashier Department, did, in fact, not arrive when carried out, but I believe I am certain that originally instructions of this type, as explained in this letter did exist.
Q. Did you read that yourself? Did you read the instructions?
A.I think that in the files of the Precious Metals Department, which are in the hands of the American Government, there will be copies of these instructions.
Q.Was that instruction signed by the defendant Punk?
A.That I can not tell you.
Q.Who else might have signed it?
A.I really can't tell you at the moment, but I would not assume that it is the case, because, if the Finance Minister's and Goering's orders are referred to, who were superior to Funk, then there must be some other department that signed.
DR. SAUTER:Mr. President, I have no further questions.
MR. DODD:May I ask one or two questions on re-direct?
THE PRESIDENT:Yes.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DODD:
Q.There wasn't any exaggeration about the fact that you did find a slip of paper with the word "Auschwitz" written on it among one of these ships, was there?
A.No.
Q.Now, I suppose you found lots of things among these shipments with names written on them. There must have been something that made you remember "Auschwitz", isn't that so?
A.Yes.
Q.Well, what was it?
A.I must assume that I now recollect that there was some connection to a concentration camp, but I can't say. I am, maybe, of the opinion that it must have happened later.
Q.Well, I don't care to press it. I just wanted to make perfectly clear to the Tribunal that you told us that you did remember "Auschwitz", and it had such a meaning for you that you remembered it as late as after the surrender of Germany. That is so, isn't it?
A. Oh, yes.
MR. DODD:I have no further questions. BY THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle):
Q.You said there were about 77 deliveries, is that right?
A.Yes, there were over 70.
Q.How large were the deliveries? Were they in trucks?
A.They were different. Their size was different. Generally they arrived in ordinary cars, but sometimes they arrived in lorries. when there were banknotes, they the size was smaller and the weight was lower. If there was silver, silver articles, then, of course, the weight was high, and a small lorry would bring it.
Q.There were several lorries, or trucks, in each delivery, usually?
A.No, they weren't that large. There were, amybe, on the outside, one truck.
Q.One other question: Do I understand you to say that those articles were transferred to new containers?
A.Yes, they were put into ordinary bags by the Reichsbank.
Q.Bags, marked with the Reichsbank's name on the bag?
A.Yes, on which the word "Reichsbank" was written
THE PRESIDENT:The witness can retire.
----------------
(EMIL PUHL, a witness, resumed the stand and testified further as follows)
THE PRESIDENTLNow, Dr. Seidle, do you wish to ask the witness Puhl some questions?
Witness, you remember that you are still on oath?
A.Yes, sir.
DR. SEIDL:Counsel, Dr. Seidl for the defendant Goering.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. SEIDL:
Q.Witness, in connection with document 3947-PS, USA 850, I have to put a few questions to you.
You heard earlier when the qitness Toms was asked questions that in this letter there is contained a paragraph which refers to the Reichsmarshall Goering and which is connected with the Chief Trustee's Department, East.
Is it true that this Chief Trustee's Department was a department which had been established by a law in the Reich and that its right to confiscate had also been settled by a Reich law?
A.I can not answer the second part of your question just like that. I am not a legally trained man. The Board of Trustees, East, was actually, was officially established? whether by a decree or by a law, that is something I can not tell you at the moment.
Q.According to what you know, did the Board of Trustees, East, have contact with the SS Economic Department? Did they have anything to do with each other?
A.I have never observed that.
Q.Is it apparently out of the question, at least when you read the letter, that the Board of Trustees, East, and its deliveries could in any way be connected with the Me liner action?
A.That very probably is so.
Q.You mean there was no connection?
A.That is right, that there was no connection.
Q You mentioned this morning that in connection with the business of the Reichsbank, the Reichsbank did not like to have to do with cases of Customs investigations and the Currency Control Department.
The part of this letter which refers to the defendant Goering contains a sentence which refers to the utilization of objects which originated from the occupied western territories. Is it true that, particularly in the occupied western territories, both the Currency Control Department and the Customs Investigation Department had their officials?
AThe total of the values which were brought in by those two service departments is unknwon to me. I would doubt that they were considerable, unusual, but they were fairly largo sums, mostly, of course, of foreign currency.
DR. SEIDL:I have no further questions to the witness.
THE PRESIDENT:Mr. Dodd, do you want to ask him anything?
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DODD:
QAfter having heard Mr. Toms' testimony, do you wish to change any of your testimony that you gave this morning?
ANo.
QAnd your affidavit that you gave under oath, do you wish to have it remain as it is?
AYes.
MR. DODD:That is all I have. BY THE PRESIDENT:
QDo you know who Kropp, who signed under the word "Hauptkasse" in the letter of 31 March 1944, 3947-PS, is?
AMr. Kropp was an official of our Cashier's Department. He had a comparatively leading position.
QOf which department?
AThe Cashier's Department.
THE PRESIDENT:Thank you. The witness can retire.
--------------
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Siemers.
DR. SIEMERS (Counsel for defendant Raeder): Grand Admiral Raeder, will you come up to the witness stand?
(ERICH RAEDER, a witness, resumed the stand and testified further as follows.)
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. SIEMERS:
QMay I remind you that I put the principal question whether the reconstruction o the navy was to serve aggressive or defensive purposes.
The witness wishes to answer that question by referring to parts of the the speech he made in 1928. It is Raeder Exhibit Number 6, Document Book I, page 15, and the speech, as such, begins on page 17.
Will you go ahead.
AFirst of all, I want to say that Minister Severing, whom I have asked for as one of my witnesses, brought this speech along on his own free will, since he still remembered it from the year 1928.
DR. SIEMERS:This becomes apparent from page 16 of the document book. It is Raeder's letter to Minister Severing, dated October 8, 1928, and Severing sent this speech to me when he came to Nurnberg to appear as a witness.
AI shall quote from page 17, the fifth line from the bottom, and make the sentences shorter for the interpreters:
"The Armed Forces -- I am speaking of course primarily for the Navy, but I know that it is not different in the Army -- since after 1919, its inner solidarity and penetration has been perfected with the greatest devotion and loyalty to duty, in its present structure, whether officer or soldier, in its present form of development and its inner attitude, is a firm and reliable support, I dare say -- even on the basis of its inherent military might -- with respect of conditions within the Reich -- the firmest and most reliable support of our German Fatherland, the German Reich, the German Republic and its constitution and that the Wehrmacht is proud of the fact to be just that."
I then turn to page three, and it is the sixth line:
"If, however, the State is to endure, this power must be available only to the constitutional authorities.
No one else may have it; that is, not even the political parties; the Wehrmacht must be completely nonpolitical and be composed only of servicemen who, in full realization of this necessity, refuse to take part in any activity of domestic politics.
To have realized this from the outset and organized the Wehrmacht accordingly is the great and enduring achievement of Noske, the former Reichswehrminister, whom the worthy Minister Dr. Gessler followed, on this road with the deepest conviction."
Then I talk about the composition of the navy, and then on the fourth page I continue, on line 7; perhaps this is the most important sentence:
"In my opinion, one this is of course a proviso for the correct attitude of the service man, namely that he is willing to put his profession into practice when the Fatherland calls upon him. People who never againwant war cannot possibly wish to become soldiers. One cannot blame the Wehrmacht for imparting to its service men a manly and warlike spirit, not the desire for war or even a war of revenge or a war of aggression striving after which, in the general opinion, would certainly seem a crime of all Germans, but the will to take up arms in the defense of the Fatherland in its hour of need."
Then I pass on to the last paragraph on page four. "It must be understood -- for it is in accordance with the essence of the Wehrmacht -that it is important to be as far as possible in a position to fulfil its tasks, even under the conditions today, dictated by the Versailles Treaty."
I then refer to the tasks of that war navy and that is on page five, second paragraph, line six. "Just picture the extent of the German coastline in the Baltic and North Sea, chiefly the Prussian coastline, which would be subject to attacks and ravages of even the smallest maritime nations, had we not at our disposal modern maneuverable naval forces at least up to a strength permissible by the provisions of the Versailles Dictation. Above all, think of the position of East-Prussia which in the event of a shutting down of the Corridor would wholly rely on overseas import, an importation which would have to by-pass directly bases of foreign nations and in the event of war would be endangered to the utmost, or even be made impossible, if we wer not in possession of fighting ships. Further bear in mind reports about the effects of visits of our school-ships and our fleet in foreign countries, according to which already in 1922 through the model conduct of shipscrews an improvement of internal conditions of the Reich was deduced and the esteem of the German Reich thus helped considerably.