My Lord, there can be no question that these men had knowledge. Again, as the picture unfolds, it will be my submission that everybody in Germany must have had knowledge of what was going on, and if everybody had knowledge, then, my submission is, these men must certainly have had knowledge, and I would urge upon this Tribunal the fact that the conviction of these men does not rely upon the mere chance of how many documents happened to have been captured bearing their signatures.
It might well have been that no documents at all had been captured. But, in the submission of the Prosecution, these men could equally well and equally justifiably have been proved guilty in the part they took, beyond any kind of doubt, upon the evidence of the positions they held and the evidence of the scope and extent of the crimes that were committed by the people they controlled.
My Lord, that is my submission, and in view of that, I would perhaps deal briefly, for the convenience of the Tribunal, with the many small matters that do directly connect him with, as I say, almost every aspect of the crimes and life of Nazi Germany.
I turn to page 6 of the trial brief:
DR. SEIDL:The Prosecuting Attorney just mentioned a sworn statement, neither in the Document Book nor in his presentation. I can, consequently, take no position in regard to this sworn statement. Nor can I investigate the questions that are brought up in it. According to the provisions of the Charter, I should like the Prosecuting Attorney to present me with this sworn statement ...
(The remainder of the interpretation of the statement of Dr. Seidl did not come through the headphone).
THE PRESIDENT:We couldn't hear the rest of the translation coming through.
DR. SEIDL:Mr. President, I am not sure how much of the translation you heard.
THE PRESIDENT:There is some Document that you are saying is net in the Document Book?
LT. COL.GRIFFITH-JONES: The photographs were in the book. The affidavit by the photographer was my mistake omitted from the book, the original is here. I will produce a copy for Dr. Seidl, and I regret it was not done before. It was net a very important document.
My Lord, it might be expected that, in the positions he held, the defendant Hess took a leading part in the acquisition of power by the Nazi Party and in their consolidation of control over the State.
By the law of the 1st of August the office of Reichspresident -
THE PRESIDENT: 1934?
LT. COL.GRIFFITH-JONES: 1934, yes. (Continuing) and of Reichschancellor were joined together under Hitler. Hitler held both offices. That decree was signed by others and by Hess. Hess also signed a decree on the 20th of December, 1934, a decree entitled "Laws of Treacherous Acts Against the State and Party." By Article 1 of that decree penalties were imposed upon anybody making false statements injuring the prestige of the government, the Party, or its agencies; and by Article 2 penalties were imposed for statements proving a malicious attitude against the party or its leading personalities. The decree was signed by Hess and it was Hess who had to issue the necessary regulations for carrying the decree into effect.
He took a leading part in the gaining of control over government appointments. I quote again in all these matters only a few examples. If one wanted to quote every decree that the defendant signed and every act he took in participation of these matters, it would really entail writing a history of the Nazi Party from 1920 until 1941 and a history of Germany from 1933 until 1941. Set out in the trial brief at page 7, it will be seen that there are various decrees, all signed by Hess; of the 24th September 1935, a decree providing for his consultation in the appointment of Reich civil servants; 3rd April 1936, providing for his participation in the appointment of labor service officials; and I refer again to the 10th of July 1937, another decree under which he participated by having to be consulted upon the appointment or other minor civil servants.
With respect to the control the Nazi Party gained over the German youth, again there are various decrees signed by this defendant. I set out in trial brief particularly a reference to the book which has already been put in, Volz's dates of the Nazi Party, where it appears that he appointed a University Commission of the Party, which was under his supervision. The Tribunal will remember that we have already seen from the chart of his staff that he had a department dealing with universities and with teachers.
I am quoting from the same document. On the 18th of July, 1934, the Nazi League of Young Students Was directly subordinated to the Deputy of the Fuehrer.
The defendant, as the Tribunal has heard, was an Obergruppenfuehrer himself in the SS and the SA. His responsibility for an association with those organizations can be seen from three documents. Amongst the papers found in the Krupp files was a circular sent by Hess, apparently to various industries, asking for funds or subscriptions for the Adolph Hitler Fund for German Industry, The document is D-151, which I put now as GB-256, and the relevant extract again is set out in the trial brief for convenience:
"The fund rests upon an agreement between the Reich management of the NSDAF and leading representatives of German industry:
Then its purpose is set out:
"To put at the disposal of the Reich leadership the funds required for the unified execution of the tasks which fall to the lot of the SA, SS, and other political organizations."
He signed a decree on the 9th of June, 1934.
For the convenience of the Tribunal, perhaps I should mention that that last document I mentioned can found at page 5 of the document book.
On the 5th of June, 1934, he signed a decree by which the Security Service of the Reichsfuehrer SS was established as the sale political news and defense twice of the Party, On the 14th of December, 1938, he issued a decree by which the SD, which Himmler had established, was taken off the establishment of the Party, and it was, under that decree, to be organized by the SS.
Those were both Hess decrees, and they are both the same document, PS-3385. They have become GB-257, and they appear at page 172 of the Tribunal's document book, My Lord, there has already been given much evidence of the subversion of the churches in order to eliminate any hostile parties there may have been to the Nazi Party.
Hess again took his share in that legislation, and there are set out in the trial brief, on pages 8 and 9, a series of decrees which, have already been put before the Tribunal during the presenta tion of the case against Bormann.
Bormann, it will be remembered, was at this time, and throughout, until Hess flew to England, Hess' deputy. Therefore, it will be my submission that decrees issued by Bormann as deputy for the deputy of the Fuehrer are, of course, the responsibility of this defendant as well.
For the sake of time, I believe the Tribunal has a reference to the decrees and will bear in mind the evidence that was offered against the defendant Bormann.
I come now, then, to his activity in the general persecution of the Jews. Again it will be remembered that the chart of his organization showed an office of his which described itself as the Office for Racial Policy. His own views about this matter are found in a speech which he made on the 16th of January, 1937, and which is reported in a volume of his speeches which is PS -3124. It is already in as GB-253. The extract I desire to quote is set out in the trial brief. The document can be found on page 98 of the document book.
"The organization of the NSDAP will be used for the enlightenment of the people in questions concerning race and health of the nation, and to increase the population. Just as in the homeland, so in foreign lands Germans influenced in the National Socialist sense are being educated in such a way as to make them proudly conscious again of the fact that they are Germans, to make them hold together and esteem each other. Thus, they are being educated to put Germans above the subjects of a foreign nation, regardless of their position or their origin."
Hess it was who signed the Law for Protection of blood and Honor, one of the Nurnberg decrees of the 15th of September 1935. It is PS-3179. It is already in evidence as US-200. It will be remembered that under that decree and under the other Reich Citizenship Law of the same date, it was the Deputy of the Fuehrer who was to issue the necessary decrees and regulations for the carrying out and supplementing of those laws, the Nurnberg Decrees.
On the 14th of November 1935, it was Hess who issued an ordinance under the Reich Citizenship Law which deprived the Jews of the right to vote or to hod public office. That is PS-1417, and becomes GB-258.
By a further decree of the 20th of May 1938, those Nurnberg laws were extended to Austria, that law of extension again beging signed by this defendant.
PS-2124, GB-259.
As I said, those are only a few examples of the decrees and activities of this man in the acquisition of power and consolidation of power in the Nazi Party.
There are documents which I will hand up to the Tribunal that perhaps they might add to their document books, and there is a copy in German for the learned French Judge.
There are examples in this and other exhibits which I have not mentioned now, but which are already before the Tribunal, put in when the case of Bormann was put before the Tribunal, for which, as I have already said, this Defendant must take responsibility.
You will see that under various headings--there are one or two German copies and the rest are in English--there are various documents set out under the headings, "Association with the SD and GESTAPO," "Subversion of the Churches," and again, "The Persecution of the Jews."
I turn then to the part which he played in the actual planning and preparation for aggressive war. We find that as early as 1932 he was concerned with the rearmament and reorganization of the Air Force. The Tribunal will remember a document, PS-1143, US-40, dated the 20th of October, 1932, which showed that a report on the preparation of material and training of air personnel to provide for the armament of the Air Force was sent to Hess by Rosenberg's chief of staff. That document, for reference, appears on page 43 of the Tribunal's document book.
That was in 1932. Throughout the years we find him connected with the rearmament of the German armed forces. On the 16th of March, 1935, it was Hess who signed the decree for the introduction of compulsory military service. On the 12th of October, 1936, in a speech that he made, he took up Goering's cry of "Guns before Butter," when he said:
"We are prepared in the future, if need be, at times to eat a little less fat, a little less pork, a few eggs less, since we knew/ that this little sacrifice is a sacrifice on the altar of the freedom of our people. We know that the foreign exchange which we thereby save expedites the output of armaments."
The phrase still holds good today--guns instead of butter.
That document is M-104. It becomes 260 and will be found on page 14 of the Tribunal's document book.
In May of 1941 be was making a speech at the Messerschmidt Works, of which occasion the Tribunal has already got a photograph before it.
It was one of those four photographs we were looking at a moment ago.
Then he said:
"The German soldier must understand that for the uniqueness and abundance of his weapons and his material, for these he must thank the untiring efforts for many years of Adolph Hitler."
A report of that speech appears in the Voelkischer Beobachter on the 2nd of May, 1941.
It is M-105 and becomes GB-261. It is on page 15 of the Tribunal's document book.
One of the most important parts that this Defendant took in the preparation for aggressive war was his organization of the famous German fifth column.
He was the responsible person, as Deputy of the Fuehrer, of the Auslandsorganisation of the Party, that is to say, the Foreign Organization of the Party.
A history of that organization, a very brief history, will be found in an American state publication, PS-3258. It becomes 262-GB.
It is on page 147 of the document book.
I would only mention now two matters. In October 1933 that organization was placed directly under Hess's control, and a year later it was Hess himself who gave it its present name of the Foreign Organization Auslandsorganisation.
For the convenience again of the Tribunal a chart is set out in the organization book for 1938, which is PS-2354, US-430, and is on page 69 of the Tribunal's document book, and I think it is unnecessary to refer now in detail.
It had the various offices, civil service offices, cultural offices, press propaganda offices, labor front offices, and the foreign trade offices, the various offices dealing with the German merchant marine, which afforded, of course, an excellent medium for spreading Nazi propaganda to every port through the world.
The Tribunal has heard a good deal about a somewhat similar organization of Rosenberg, the APA.
Very briefly and in a word, I think the distinction between the two can be said to be that the APA was concerned with the enrolment and propaganda for non-Germans, for foreigners, whereas the Ausland Organization was concerned with Germans living abroad, who, of course, were to form the basis of fifth column activities in future years.
I think the Tribunal will see that there are set out under the heading, "Scope of the Organization's Work," two documents.
I think that perhaps it is sufficient to refer to the first of them now, PS-3401, which becomes 263-GB, and which the Tribunal will find on page 173 of that document book.
THE PRESIDENT:Which page in the trial brief?
LT. COL.GRIFFITH-JONES: Page 12, my Lord.
That is an article from the Voelkischer Beobachter, which starts off by saying that, "National Socialism is an ideology which takes hold of our fellow Germans and strengthens them in holding fast to the German nature and customs," and then goes on to say that the place for the practical application of that policy and principle is the foreign organization of the NSDAP, which is directly subordinated to the Deputy of the Fuehrer Hess.
I quote the last three lines of that paragraph.
"The work of the Foreign Organization is literally extended over the entire earth, and the following slogan could, with full justice, be displayed in its workroom in Hamburg, 'My field is the world.
' The Foreign Organization, under the leadership of Gauleiter Bohle, who is aided by a large staff of experts and qualified co-workers, today includes over 350 national groups and bases of the NSDAP in all parts of the world, and in addition to this, is taking care of a largo number of individual Party comrades in most varied places."
My Lord, in view of the time I will not refer to any further documents about the activity and the scope of that organization.
They will be found as set out in the following document, PS-3258, which is at page 150 of the document book.
That is 262, already in evidence.
There is another extract from the British Basic Handbook on Germany, which is in the addendum to the document book.
It is not, I think, actually put into the Tribunal's brief.
It appears under Exhibit number M-122, and becomes GB-264.
Two of the various other organizations which were run by the Foreign Organization were known as the National League for Germandom Abroad, the V.D.A., and the German Eastern League, the B.D.O.I would refer the Tribunal to a document which they will find on page 38 of the document book.
It is PS-837, which becomes GB-265.
That is a letter which it will be seen on the next page is signed by Hess, dated 3 February, 1939.
It is a circular order-
"Not for publication. The subject is the National League of Germans Abroad and the German Eastern League.
I quote from the first paragraph.
"The Director of the Agency for Racial Germans, SS Gruppenfuehrer Lorenz--"The Agency for Racial Germans, which was the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle, was another similar foreign organization, but one run by Himmler and the SS.
All these gentlemen appear to have had their own foreign organizations.
No doubt they were all engaged upon the same purpose.
Himmler's was called the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle.
I quote again.
"The Director for that agency has instigated on my behalf the following nwe ruling for questions affecting racial work and work in the border country.
The National League for Germans Abroad, V.D.A., is the association responsible for national work beyond the frontiers."
I go down to the last two lines of that paragraph:
"The V. D. A. is organized into state associations which correspond in area to the Gaus of the NSDAP."
And the first two lines of the next paragraph:
"The German League, the B. D. O., is the association responsible for work on the border country."
I turn to the next page, paragraph 4 of that letter, Number 4:
"The V. D. A. is solely responsible for racial work beyond the frontiers. I hereby forbjd the Party, its organizations and affiliated associations from all racial work abroad. The only competent body for this task is the Agency for Racial Germans, and V. D. A. as its camoflouged tool. Within the Reich, the V. D. A., generally speaking, is responsible only for providing the means for racial work beyond the frontiers. V. D. A. must be supported in every way by the Party Officers. Any outward appearance of connection with the Party is, however, to be avoided."
Then it goes on to set out the activity of the B. D. O., and in the last paragraph:
"The activity of the V. D. A. and the B. D. O., is to be supported in every way by the Party offices. The National Socialist leaders of both associations will assure energetic cooperation, on their part, in all tasks assigned to them by the NSDAP. Their nature is determined by considerations of foreign policy and the associations must bear this in mind when representing them in public."
My Lord, I turn from the activity, therefore, of the Foreign Organization, which as I say, was the basis of the fifth column movement when war eventually broke out. I pass, then, to consideration of Hess' part in the preliminary occupations of Austria and Czechoslovakia, which led up to the aggressive wars themselves.
Hess is seen to be participating in the preparations to occupy Austria from the very beginning. In the autumn of 1934 it was he that appointed Reinthaler leader of the Austrian Peasants, the Nazi Party in Austria, after the failure of the July, 1934 rising. That has already been given in evidence: P. S. 812, U.S. 61, and the relevant passage was read into the transcript at Page 504.
Another document that has already been put in evidence, PS-3254, U.S.704, is Seyss-Inquart's statement of 10 December 1945, when he mentions that he held meetings with Goering and Hess in 1936.
On the morning that German troops eventually marched into Austria, 12 March 1938, Hess and Himmler, together, were the first of the leaders of the German Government to appear in Vienna, and they were there by midday on that day.
It was Hess who signed the law of 13 March, the next day, for the reunion of Austria with the German Reich, and the Tribunal will, no doubt, remember the occasion, which was described fully by Mr. Alderman, of the shocking celebrations which were held in anniversary of the murder of Dollfus, the celebrations being held the 24th of July, 1938, when the highlight of the occasions was a speech by Hess.
I would refer the Tribunal to a document which appears on page 165 of the document, which throws some light in his own words, both on his activity as far as Austria was concerned and also with Czechoslovakia. This was a speech that he made on 28 August 1938 at the annual meeting of the Foreign Organization. It is 3258 P S. It is already in as 262 GB. I quote from the third but last paragraph on Page 165 of the document book.
"At the close of his talk Rudolf Hess recalls the days last year in Stuttgart, when German men and women, German boys and girls in their native costumes appeared here in Stuttgart aglow with enthusiasm for the ideal of greater Germany. Patiently removed from National Socialism, but nevertheless outwardly 'Volksdeutsche' Germans of foreign citizenship.
'Today', Rudolf Hess continued, 'they also stand openly in our ranks. Proudly and happily they will march in the formation of the National Socialist movement past their Fuehrer in Nuremberg. Withall our hearts we rejoice as we see them. They have fought a long and tough battle, a battle against a treacherous and mendacious enemy.'" --and so on.
And then on the next page, 166, where he turns to discuss the struggle of the Sudeten Germany:
"The German people looks at the German racial comrades in Czechoslovakia with the profoundest sympathy for their suffering. No one in the world who loves his own people and is proud of his own people will find faults with us if from this place here we also turn our thoughts to the Sudeten German. If we say to them, that filled with admiration, we see how they are maintaining an iron discipline, despite the worse chicanery, despite terror and murder.
If it had in general required a proof."
I don't think, perhaps, it's necessary for me to read any more of that document, but it shows his interest in Czechoslovakia, and by Document 3061-PS, which has already been put in as US-126, it has been shown that during the summer of 1938--that speech was made in August of 1938--during the whole of that summer continuous conversations were being held between Henlein and Hitler, Hess, and Ribbentrop, informing the Reich Government of the general situation in Czechoslovakia. That document has been read into the transcript as page 932 of the transcript but, if anything, condemns Hess as participating in this action. It is a letter dated the 27th of September, 1938, which was a letter. It will be read. The Tribunal has had it before them. It was written by Keitel to Hess, asking for the Party's participation in the secret mobilization, which was intended to take place without even issuing the code word for mobilization. That was on the 27th of September 1938 that letter was written. It is 388-PS, and has been put in as US-26 and it appears on page 30 of the Tribunal's document book.
I would refer the Tribunal to one short document on page 120 of the document book, on which begins another speech by the defendant, a speech he made on the 7th of November 1938 on the occasion of the initiation of the Sudeten German Party into the NSDAP.
"If we had to defend our rights, then they would have really got to know us, we, the National Socialist Germans. 'The Fuehrer", he declared amidst the ringing cheers of the masses, 'learned his lessons. He armed at a speed that no one would have believed possible. When the Fuehrer has gained the power and, more specially, since the Fuehrer has awakened the resolution of the German people to put their strength behind their rights, then Germany's right will be conceded."
One might wonder what all those rights were at that time, November, 1938, when already Hitler had said on the 26th of September that he had no more territorial demands, at any rate, to make in Europe.
I turn then to his part of some fragment of evidence of the part he played in the waging of aggressive war against Poland.
On page 16 of the document book there is a report of a speech that he made on the 27th of August, 1939, which shows at least that he was taking part in the official propaganda that was being thrown at the world in those days, two days before the war was declared. I quote from the second paragraph:
"Rudolph Hess, constantly interrupted with strong applause from the German citizens living abroad as well as fellow countrymen from the District of Styria, stressed the unexampled forbearance shown by Germany towards Poland in the magnanimous offer of the Fuehrer that had endured peace between Germany and Poland. An offer that Mr. Chamberlain seems to have forgotten for he says he has heard nothing of Germany's having tried to solve certain acute present day questions by peaceful discussion. What else was the German offer then, if it was not such an attempt?"
Then he goes on to accuse Poland of agitating for war and so on.Poland's lack of responsibility is England. In view of the time, I shall quote no more of that. The document is in evidence and it becomes GB-266.
After the conquest of Poland, it was Hess that signed the decree incorporating Danzig into the Reich, decree of the 1st of September 1939, a decree incorporating Polish territories into the Reich on the 8th of October, 1939, and on the 12th of October, 1939, a decree for the administration of Polish territory, in which it was stated that regulations were to be made for the planning of German Lebensraum and economic scope. Those are all decrees in the Reichsgesetzblatt. I regret that the last two that I mentioned are not actually included in the Tribunal's document book, but the effect of them is set out in the trial brief. That, in view of the evidence that has been given as to his fifth column organization, is all that I propose to offer in respect of Poland. It must be clear that my submission will be that he was deeply involved both in the planning and in the preparation for aggressive war.
I turn to an example of his participation in war crimes and crimes against humanity. I refer only to two documents; one which appears as set out on page 18 of the trial brief, PS-3245, which becomes GB-267.
It was an order issued by Hess through the Party chancellory demanding support from the Party for recruiting members for the Waffen SS; and one paragraph which is set out in the trial brief I quote:
"The units of the Waffen SS, consisting of National Socialists, are more suitable than other armed units for the specific tasks to be solved in the occupied eastern territories due to their intensive National Socialist training in regard to questions of race and nationality."
But, in view of what was happening and what was going to happen in the occupied eastern territories by the Waffen SS, we haven't, I know, forgotten the part they played in the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto. I suggest that the inference that can be drawn from that letter is damning.
There is one further document. That document, I might say, will be found on page 121 of the Tribunal's document book. The other document that I would refer to in this respect is R-96, which becomes GB-268, and again that will be found on page 175 of the document book. It's a letter written by the Reich Minister of Justice to the Chief of the Reich Chancellor on the 17th of April, 1941, and it is discussing proposed penal laws for Jews and Poles in the occupied territories. It shows quite clearly that Hess has been involved in discussions on this subject because it refers to certain proposals that he himself has made. Lord, I would venture to draw the attention of the Tribunal to one or two passages. I quote from the beginning of that letter on page 175.
"It has been my opinion from the outset that special conditions prevailing in the annexed eastern territories require special measures of penal law and penal procedure against Poles and Jews."
And then I go on to the second paragraph, the first two lines.
"The aim to create a special law for Poles and Jews in the eastern territories was pursued further according to plan by the Ordinance dated 6 June 1940. By this Ordinance German penal law, which had been used in the eastern territories already from the outset was formally made applicable.
There I skip three lines.
"The procedure for enforcing a prosecution has been abrogated for it seems intolerable that Poles or Jews should be able to force the German public prosecutor to instigate an indictment.
Poles and Jews have also been deprived of the right to prosecute in their own names or join the public prosecutor in an action. In addition in this special law in the sphere of procedure, some special conditions have been included in Article 2 of the introductory Ordinance. These provisions were established in agreement with the Reich Minister of Interior on the basis of needs which had made themselves felt. From the beginning it was intended to augment the special conditions in case of need. This need which had been apparent in the meantime was to be met by an executive and supplementary order which was added to the original ordinance and which was referred to in the letter from the Fuehrer's deputies."
I turn to the next page, top of the page:
"Later I was informed of the express wish of the Fuehrer. As a matter of principle, Poles, and I presume the Jews, are to be treated differently from the Germans within this sphere of penal law. After preliminary discussions, et cetera, I drew up the enclosed draft concerning criminal law and procedure against Poles and Jews."
I skip to the next paragraph: "The draft represents altogether special law, both in the sphere of penal law and penal procedure.
"The suggestions of the Deputy Fuehrer have been taken into consideration to a far-reaching extent. Number 1: Paragraph 3 contains a general crime formula on the basis of which any Pole or Jew in the Eastern territory can in future be prosecuted an any kind of punishment can be inflicted on him for any attitude or action which is considered punishable and is directed against Germans."
Then I go on to the next paragraph:
"In accordance with the opinion of the Deputy of the Fuehrer, I started from the point of view that the Pole is less susceptible to the infliction of ordinary imprisonment."
And a few lines further down, "Under these new kinds of punishment prisoners are to be lodged outside prisons in camps and are to be forced to do heavy and heaviest labor."
I go to the next page, second paragraph:
"The introduction of corporal punishment, which the Deputy of the Fuehrer has brought up for discussion, has not been included in the draft. I cannot agree to this type of punishment because its infliction does not, in my opinion, correspond to the cultural level of the German people."
My Lord, as I said, the purpose of that document is to show that the Deputy of the Fuehrer was well aware of what was going on in the Eastern occupied territories and indeed was advocating even stronger measures than the Reich Minister of Justice was prepared to accept.
I turn then to give such evidence as I can upon the flight of the defendant Hess to England on the 10th of May 1941.
On that evening he landed in Scotland, quite close, within 12 miles of the home of the Duke of Hamilton, and on landing he at once asked to be taken to the Duke of Hamilton, whom he wanted to see. He gave a false name and was shut up, and on the following day, the 11th of May, he had an interview with the Duke of Hamilton, a report of which is set out in the addendum to the document book, if the Tribunal would now turn to the small addendum to the document book.
THE PRESIDENT:Has this been put in evidence yet or not?
LT. COL. GRIFFITH JONES:My Lord, I am putting it in evidence.
THE PRESIDENT:Is it properly authenticated?
LT. COL. GRIFFITH JONES:It is authenticated, and the original is certified as being a Government report from the files of the Foreign Office in London. There are four reports altogether, which come from the Foreign Office file and which have been certified as reports from the Foreign Office.
The first one that I would refer to is M-116, which becomes GB-269, and is a report on the interview that he had with the Duke of Hamilton on the 11th of May 1941. I can summarize most of the contents of that report by saying that he introduced himself as Hess. He said that he had met the Duke of Hamilton at the Olympic Games in 1936, and that his old friend, Haushofer, under whom he studied at Munich University after the last war had suggested that he, Hess, should make contact with the Duke of Hamilton.
He said that in order to do so he had already tried to fly three times before, the first being in December of 1940, the previous year.
The reasons he then gave for his visit will be found on the second page of that document. I quote from the end of the fourth line.
I beg your pardon. Perhaps I ought to say really before that, that he said that he had said earlier in the interview that Germany was willing for peace with England; that she was certain to win the war; and he himself was anxious to stop the unnecessary slaughter that would otherwise inevitably take place.
"He asked me if I could get together leading members of my party to talk over things with a view to making peace proposals. I replied that there was now only one party in this country. He then said he could tell me what Hitler's peace terms would be:
"First, he would insist on an arrangement whereby our two countries would never go to war again. I questioned him as to how that arrangement could be brought about, and he replied that one of the conditions of course is that Britain would give up her traditional policy of always opposing the strongest power in Europe."
I think I need really read no more of that document, because he enlarges upon those proposals in the subsequent interviews that he had on the 13th, 14th, and 15th of May with Mr. Kirkpatrick of the Foreign Office.
I turn to M-117, which becomes 270, which is another official report of the interview with Mr. Kirkpatrick on the 13th of May. Again I can summarize practically all of it.
He started off by explaining the chain of circumstances which led up to his present situation, which really involved a history of Europe from the end of the last war up to that time. He dealt with Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Norway, saying in each case that Germany was justified and it was all England's and France's fault that they had had to get in it. He blamed England entirely for starting the war. He did say--and I quote one line which is of interest, dealing with Munich. He said "The intervention of Mr. Chamberlain-
THEPRESIDENT: (Interposing) Where are you reading?
LT. COL. GRIFFITH JONES: I am reading from the fifth paragraph, my Lord.
It starts off:
"The Czechoslovakian crisis was caused by the French determination, expressed by the French Air Ministry, to make Czechoslovakia an air base against Germany. It was Hitler's duty to scotch this plot. The intervention of Mr. Chamberlain and the Munich conference had been a source of great relief to Hitler."
If one remembers somewhere having heard in the course of this case Hitler saying that he had of course no intention of abiding by that agreement at all, that that would never do.
I go on with that document. He then says that Germany must win the war. He says that the bombing of England had only just started, and only just started with the greatest reluctance. As he puts it at the tope of page 2, the German production of U-Boats was enormous. They had enormous raw material resources in occupied territory, and the confidence in Hitler and in final victory in Germany was complete; and that there was no kind of hope for any revolution amongst the German people.
He gave his reasons for his flight, his personal reasons again, that he was horrified at the prospect of a long war. England could not win, and therefore she had better make peace now. He said the Fuehrer entertained no designs against England. He had no idea of world domination, and he would greatly regret the collapse of the British Empire.
I quote from the last three lines of the large paragraph in the center of the page:
"At this point Hess tried to make my flesh creep by emphasizing that the avaricious Americans had fell designs on the Empire. Canada would certainly be incorporated in the United States.
"Reverting to Hitler's attitude, he said that only as recently as May 3rd after his Reichstag speech, Hitler had declared to him that he had no oppressive demands to make of England.
"The solution which Herr Hess proposed was that England should give Germany a free hand in Europe, and Germany would give England a completely free hand in the Empire, with the sole reservation that we should return Germany's ex-colonies, which she required as a source of raw materials.
I asked, in order to draw him on the subject of Hitler's attitude to Russia, whether he included Russia in Europe or in Asia.
He replied 'In Asia.' I then retorted that under the terms of his proposal, since Germany would only have a free hand in Europe, she would not be at liberty to attack Russia.
Herr Hess reacted quickly by remarking that Germany had certain demands to make of Russia which would have to be satisfied either by negotiation or as the result of a war.
He added, however, that there was no foundation for the rumors now being spread that Hitler was contemplating an early attack on Russia.
"I then asked about Italian aims and he said that he did not know them.
I replied that it was a matter of some importance. He brushed this aside and said that he was sure that Italy's claims would not be excessive.
I suggested that Italy scarcely deserved anything, but he begged to differ.
Italy had rendered considerable services to Germany, and besides England had compensated defeated nations like Rumania after the last war.
"Finally, as we were leaving the room, Herr Hess delivered a parting shot.
He had forgotten, he declared, to emphasize that the proposal could only be considered on the understanding that it was negotiated by Germany with an English Government other than the present British Government.
Mr. Churchill, who had planned the war since 1936, and his colleagues who had lent themselves to his war policy, were not persons with whom the Fuehrer could negotiate."
My Lord, presumably when he came over he was not attempting to be funny.
One can only conclude from these reports that at that time the people in Germany and the German Government really had no kind of idea of what the conditions in England were like at all, but throughout it appears that this man thought England was ruled by Churchill and a small war-mongering gang.
It only needed him to come over and make a peace proposal for Churchill to be turned out in the course of two or three days.
I go on, then, to the next document, my Lord. I am afraid that it is now half past five.
I have only the other reports and one further document to refer the Tribunal to.
THE PRESIDENT:I think you had better go on. We will finish tonight.