My assignment contained reporting, conditions and development in all spheres of the cultural life within the SD sector of Kassel.
In details there were the subjects of education, university education, art, press, films, literature.
These reports served the purpose of information for the higher administrative authorities.
Q.Did you have anything to do with the executive?
A.No, my activity mostly consisted of compiling reports from other offices which were received in the office of the SD sector.
Q.What kind of material was it then?
A.There were reports by the sub-offices which were re ceived for the individual subjects of culture.
These reports were worked out by me, together with special subjects, and they were then submitted to the special department experts, and then they were re-shaped into full reports of the whole subject, which were prepared for the superior chief of the SD sector.
Q.What happened to your reports?
A.Those reports were submitted to the chief of the SD sector, who examined them, and who passed them on to his superior office.
Q.Could your reports be used as the basis for persecu tion of any people, by the Gestapo?
A.No, these reports, in shape and content matter, dealt only with the explanation and description of the general factual conditions and developments.
Q.Did your activity change when the war broke out?
A.Yes. With the beginning of the war in September 1939, I received the special order, of reporting on the morale of the population; and to the evaluation of propaganda end film and the taking up measures for the population issued by the government and conditioned by the war.
This reporting was done first daily, and, later on, it was modified and became a matter of two or three times a week.
Apart from this, from the middle of 1940, approximately, I translated Russian material concerning the Russian emigration in France, which was submitted to me from the agency of the Reich Security main Office in Paris. This work I continued until May 1941, that is, until I was detailed to Pretsch.
THE PRESIDENT:I think that seems a very likely point at which to stop for recess, Dr. Mayer.
DR. MAYER:Your Honor, I have two questions to ask before I start on a new subject. There questions are very brief. May I put them to the witness?
THE PRESIDENT:Certainly.
Q.Witness, these situation reports which you issued after the outbreak of the War, could they be used against people on the part of the prosecution authorities.
A.No. The whole nature of these reports about morale was the same as the nature of the reports which I had issued before the War.
Q.Your Honor, thank you. I think the next question can be put after the recess.
THE PRESIDENT:Very well. The Tribunal will be in recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken)
THE MARSHAL:The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Mayer proceed. DR. MAYER for Klingelhoefer:
QWitness, how did it come about that you were assigned to an Einsatzkommando?
AAt the end of Hay 1941 my section chief in Kassel received an order from the RSHA according to which I was to be sent to the Police Training School in Pretsch immediately. The purpose of this order was not given.
QWhat happened in Pretsch?
ANothing of importance happened in Pretsch. I was merely uniformed and equipped suitable for a frontal campaign. I was taken to the neighboring village of Schmiedeberg where I was injected against typhus, cholera and pox. BY THE PRESIDENT:
QWitness, before you wont to Pretsch were you already in uniform?
AOf course I wore the uniform, Your Honor, as a member of the SD.
QThen you wore a different kind of a uniform in Pretsch, a field uniform?
AYes, in Pretsch I received a new uniform. When I received the order it said expressly I should go there in civilian clothes and that I would get a new uniform in Pretsch.
QDid you sometimes wear civilian clothes during the war?
AWhen I was on leave, yes.
QI see. Thank you. BY DR. MAYER:
QWitness, was the purpose of these measures made known to you?
AAfter about two weeks all the officers who had been celled to Pretsch were called for a roll-call. On that occasion Streckenbach appeared together with a number of SS officers. There the officers and men who were lined up were divided into groups end Kommandos.
I myself came to Kommando VII-B as an interpreter. During this rollcall the officers and men were told by Streckenbach that this was an assignment which required from all officers and men their utmost in duty and the utmost in discipline. The Reichsfuehrer expected everyone to do his duty to the bitter end. After this roll-call the Einsatzgruppen were distributed. BY THE PRESIDENT:
QHow many men were at this meeting, please?
AYour Honor, this was not a meeting. This was a roll cell in the open air. All the men were lined up there who were assigned to all the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C, or D, and during this roll call all the men were subdivided into Kommandos or Groups.
QWell how many men in all were at this roll call?
AYour Honor, it is very difficult to estimate this. I cannot do that.
QWas it the entire personnel of what later became the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C and D?
AYes.
QAnd who made speeches, only Streckenbach?
AOnly Streckenbach spoke at this roll call. He just stated general instructions to the men for this assignment, without further instructions.
QDid he go into details of any kind?
ANo. Not at all. It was just e general speech.
QYes. Did Heydrich appear at this meeting?
ANo. Heydrich arrived later.
QI see, and do you remember the date of this roll call?
ANo, Your Honor, I cannot remember that. That was about - well, I was ordered from Kassel in the end of May or the beginning of June and about two weeks later this roll call took place - about the middle of June.
QVery well, thank you.
BY DR. MAYER:
QPlease continue to answer the last question.
AThe Einsatzgruppe to which I was ordered was stationed in Bad Dueben in the following time.
THE PRESIDENT:Proceed, Mr. Mayer. BY DR. MAYER:
QWhat was said about the purpose of the tasks the Einsatzkommandos were going to perform; what did Streckenbach say about this?
AOn that occasion Streckenbach did not talk about the tasks of the Einsatzkommandos. The speech was merely limited to general orientation about the duties of officers and men as soldiers during an assignment.
QWhat tasks were carried out in Dueben?
AMy commando chief, Sturmbannfuehrer Rausch organized the Sonderkommando 7b, and subdivided it. It was split up into two executive platoon and one SD platoon.
QWhat tasks and orders did you yourself receive?
AThe RSHA actually intended to employ me because of my knowledge of the Russian language, as an interpreter in the commando. The Commando Leader Rausch, however, gave me, being on SD man, the special order to organize the SD platoon. From the men I had. I selected those men who had come from the SD, or who because of their ability and their previous training seemed suitable for intelligence tasks.
QHow and when did you hear about the events which were about to take place?
AA few days before the beginning of the assignment, that is, before the Einsatzgruppe left Dueben to go to the Russian border, my Commando Chief Rausch made a roll call of his commando on which occasion he announced that Russia was the destination of the assignment.
QWhat tasks of the Einsatzkommando were named by the commando chief?
ARausch first gave general instructions about the tasks concerning the security of the territory in the rear of the fighting units and the reporting on of important material, and also the usual reporting of the SD.
Concerning the manner of warfare with Russia which was to be expected, Rausch said that Russia neither has recognized neither respected international law nor the Geneva Convention nor The Hague hale of Land Warfare, and therefore are had to expect that the enemy would conduct this war by all means possible and ruthlessly. Therefore, we would have to combat them in the same manner, and in the came ruthless manner. Therefore, the war laws and the courts martial were rescinded for this assignment by an order of the High Command of the Army as to the treatment of this enemy.
THE PRESIDENT:Pardon me, may I have that again? I didn't quite catch it. BY DR. MAYER:
QWitness, would you please repeat?
AFrom the beginning?
AYes.
QFirst of all Rausch gave general instructions about the tasks consisting in the securing of the rear Army territory, reporting of all important material, as well as the general reporting of the S.D. Concerning the manner of warfare with Russia which we had to expect, Rausch said that Russia disregarded international law and the Geneva Convention or The Hague Convention of Land Warfare, and therefore, it had to be expected that the enemy would conduct this war ruthlessly and by using all possible means to achieve their end.
THE PRESIDENT:Yes, now I did get that much of it. It is from this point on that it was a little difficult to grasp. How, state what you are going to state now a little slowly, please. BY DR. Mayer:
QPlease continue slowly.
ATherefore, we had to fight them just as ruthlessly and harshly, Therefore, the war laws and the courts martial were not to be applied concerning the enemy.
These laws had been given by the Sigh Command. and they were to be disregarded as far as the enemy was concerned.
THE PRESIDENT:Well, here is where the difficulty arises. You say these laws had been given by the High Command and were to be disregarded so far as the enemy was concerned?
THE WITNESS:Yes, the commando leader said this, that this military law and this martial law should not be applied concerning the enemy in this case the USSR at the order of the High council.
THE PRESIDENT:Oh.
THE WITNESS:In this case this means Russia.
THE PRESIDENT:Could I state it this way, that the laws concerning the treatment of the enemy did not need to be followed in the fight against Russia because Russia itself was disregarding those some love?
THE WITNESS:Yes, that is the meaning.
THE PRESIDENT:Yes.
THE WITNESS:Since great activity on the past of the opponent had to be expected in the rear of the fighting unit, all officers and men must be prepared to do their duty to the end. BY DR. MAYER:
QWhat did Rausch say about the manner of securing the territory?
ARausch announced that a very difficult task did exist for the Einsatzkommandos because of the fact that the Fuehrer had given an order to the effect that the Jews in the USSR were to be shot as being the strongest bearers of Bolshevism in Russia. The commander of the Security Police and the SD realized fully how hard this would be for the officers and men psychologically to execute this task. An attempt had been made to revoke,this order, but nothing was of avail, the order must be carried out by the commandos because of its necessity for the security. He refusal can be allowed because it is en order from the Supreme Command.
For he same reason, according to this Fuehrer Order, all political functionaries and Gypsies were to be shot as factors of danger in the occupied territory,
QDid commando Leader Rausch also say that according to this order women and children should also be shot?
ANo, women and children were not mentioned expressly. It merely said, "Jews, functionaries end Gypsies".
QDid Rausch make any difference between the Sonderkommandos and the Einsetzkommandos?
AYes, Reusch stated at the end of his explanations that it was his opinion that his commando, as a Sonderkommando, would have nothing to do with these measures. The Sonderkommandos would follow the advance troops without delay and would merely have to carry out the first security tasks; while carrying out the measures contained in the Fuehrer Order would be dealt with only by the following Einsatzkommandos who had been especially assigned to do this, and who would be stationary.
QWhat was your attitude towards the order announced by Rausch, the orders for the Einsatzkommando?
AThe impression I gained of the Fuehrer Order from the very beginning was that something extremely severe end sinister was to come about, My inner reaction was immediately to evade this as far me possible, although I fully realized at the time that the special situation raising from this war, this war again Russia, required special measures, and although I fully realized that the Jewry in Russia in its entirety as convinced followers of Bolshevism would constitute a great danger in the rear of the German Armies, my inner attitude however objected to this, that people should be killed without prowled any guilt. On the other hand, there was the order by the Supreme Commander of the State, and no one could contradict it, and not understanding the higher conceptions and ideas behind this, which the higher political and military Leadership of the state had, I had to assume that this measure was absolutely necessary in the interests of the successful ending of the war in the East, and therefore in the interest of the people and the State.
In this dissension of my feelings I avoided discussing this, and therefore did not mention it to anyone so as not to let anyone see too much of my reaction. I also noticed that the other officers and men felt similarly. The Fuehrer order was hardly mentioned, therefore, and was hardly ever discussed. Everyone knew that he would be forced to carry out this order if the situation should arise, and therefore, considered all discussions about it as useless.
THE PRESIDENT:Witness, after this inner conflict that you have described, your feelings as against your conception of patriotism, your sensibilities as against your obedience to your superior officers, including the Chief of State, did you finally come to a conclusion?
THE WITNESS:Your Honor, I Came to the conclusion that the order had to be carried out, and that I also would have to carry it out if the situation should arise for me, but that I would use every opportunity in order to evade this order as for as possible.
THE PRESIDENT:You felt that your sense of duty was stronger than your aversion to the nature of the deed you were culled upon to perform?
THE WITNESS:My sense of duty, of course, was stronger.
THE PRESIDENT:Yes. BY DR. MAYER:
QPlease continue.
AIn all this, it was my opinion that I personally, because of the task I had been given as an expert in the SD, would have nothing to do with these executive tasks and therefore I would not be forced to carry then out. In fact, during my entire assignment in Russia. I never was given an order to carry out the Fuehrer Order.
QCould you have objected to your being ordered to Pretsch?
ANo, there was no reason for this, because the purpose was not known to me. Beyond that, this was a military order in wartime which I could not disobey, for that reason alone.
QAfter you heard about the Fuehrer Order, could you have objected to staying in the Sonderkommando?
ANo, I was a member of a military formation of the Security Police and the SD, and was under military laws.
QWhen did you cross the Russian border?
ASonderkommando 7b crossed the Russian border on 25 June 41 at Brest-Litowsk.
Q what road did it take?
AThey advanced from Brest-Litowsk via Prushani-Slonim to Minck. The advance on this route Jested from 25 June until about 9 July, 1941.
Q what was your work in Sonderkommendo 7b after crossing the Russian border?
ABecause of the branching off of the commando which was split up into an executive platoon end an SD platoon. I as chief of the SD platoon, merely had to deal with the reporting. At the locations where the commando stayed for a short time while advancing, I searched the offices of the YKWD, the party and the state organization, and looked for important documents, and I inquired from the population about any questions which might be of importance for the information services. Also the members of my SD platoon who were partly new to this task I introduced Into these tasks, and I gave lectures about the people and the country in Russia.
QIn Sonderkommando 7b, did you have anything to to with executions?
ANo.
QWas it your task to select the people who were to be executed and to name them?
ANo.
QHow long were you a member of Sonderkommando 7b?
AFrom 22 June, 1941 ,until my transfer to the VIGI, on 10th or 11th July, 1941, in Minsk.
QWhy were you transferred to the Advance Kommando Moscow?
AI was transferred to the Advance Kommando Moscow because of my local knowledge and my knowledge of the language.
QWho was the chief of the Advance Kommando Moscow?
AThe then SS-Standertenfuehrer Professor Dr. Six.
QWhat were the tasks of the Advance Kommando Moscow?
AThe Advance Kommando Moscow had the task to advance immediately with the troop behind Moscow or in Moscow, and to secure important buildings and material that might be of importance concerning information, culture, politics or science.
QWhat was your took and your work?
AMy task in the VEN, because of my knowledge of the land and the country, was limited to this: I determined which objects in Moscow were to be secured.
QWhat route did the Advance Kommando Moscow take?
AThe Advance Kommando Moscow moved from Minsk to Toleschino where they remained without any verb for sometime. On 21 July, 1941, Six sent me to Smolensk to arrange for billets where I arrived the same dry and arranged for billets for the Advance Kommando Moscow in the NKWD building in Smolensk.
THE PRESIDENT:In Moscow?
THE WITNESS:In Smolensk.
THE PRESIDENT:You never got to Moscow, did you?
THE WITNESS:About five or six days later the entire Advance Kommando Moscow left. BY DR. MAYER:
QWhat was the situation for the Advance Kommando Moscow in Smolensk?
AFirst of oil the Advance Kommando Moscow could not carry out any work because Smolensk was still being attacked by artillery. After the situation had calmed down, the Advance Kommando Moscow first searched the MKWD offices of the "Soviet House" and other objects for any remaining material. Apart from that the general conditions in Smolensk were considered.
QWhat was the result?
AThe city was badly damaged and void of any people. A provisional city administration had been set up which the Army had appointed, but they could not handle matters. They asked the Advance Kommando Moscow to support them end to give them instructions for the work.
QWhy did the city administration of Smolensk ask Advance Commando Moscow for this support?
ABecause at that time the Advance Kommando Moscow was the only German troop in Smolensk who had personnel knowing both languages and being familiar with the country.
QWhat fields of work did Advance Kommando Moscow deal with in Particular?
AThe cultural equipment like museums, collections, etc., which were left in Smolensk were secured from looting. The cathedral, where there was a Pagan museum was opened so that the population could attend service, was a pagan museum.
THE PRESIDENT:I din't catch that word, a museum of what?
THE INTERPRETER:A pagan museum. I said atheists.
THE PRESIDENT:A pagan museum. Very well.
A (Continuing) The search for important material was continued.
QWhat was your personal work there?
AI personally bud the task to select all material suitable for evaluation and to evaluate it, and to obtain and work on in this connection by questioning the population a survey about all spheres of public life and to make reports about this.
QWhat happened with the material you found?
AThe material which was intended to be worked through in more detail was prepared to be sent to Berlin.
Q when did the group staff of Einsatzgruppe B arrive in Smelensk?
AAs far as I remember, on 5 August 1941.
QWhere did the group staff take up its quarters?
AThe group staff moved into the same NKWD building where the advance commando Moscow already was stationed.
QWhat was the effect on the work when the group staff arrived?
AThe arrival of the group staff had no effect on the work of the advance commando Moscow.
QDid your own function change after the group staff arrived?
AMy personal activity was not changed at all because of this. I simply dealt with the so-reporting and evaluation of material, as I have already explained.
QWhat happened when your chief, Dr. Six, went away?
AWhen on 20 August 141, Dr. Six left Smolensk in order to return to Germany, the chief of Einsatzgruppe B, Nebe, on instructions from Berlin, took over personally the Command of the advance commando Moscow until the new commando chief arrived.
QDid this change affect you personally?
AYes, insofar as I was made deputy chief of the advance commando Moscow, in case Nebe should be away from the garrison.
QDid you carry out this function as deputy?
ANo, I never was active in this function because in this pending period Nebe was continually in Smolensk. The case never arose that I had to act as deputy, therefore, the individual departments of the advance commando Moscow worked quite independently reporting immediately to Nebe, so that I beyond the tasks of the SD, was not informed about the activity of the other departments except for the work done in my section. Also Nebe gave his orders immediately to the persons he had personally appointed. Nebe never made a differentiation between 'Group Staff' and "VKM". The VKM at that time, until the now chief arrived, was practically an independent unit.
QBecause of these circumstances, could you explain this with the summary expression "VKM" and "Group Staff" as meaning the same thing or working on the same field?
AYes, since the instructions to the individual departments of the VKM were sent by Nebe immediately as chief and, therefore, the advance commando Moscow was closely connected with the Group Staff, the reports of the different departments were immediately sent to Nebe or to the competent departments in the Group Staff. This explains the fact that the reports submitted as documents contained formulations like Group Staff and VKM as one unit.
QWhen did the new chief for the advance commando Moscow arrive?
AAs far as I can recollect, the now chief for the advance commando Moscow, SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Koerting, arrived about the middle of September 1941 and was in charge of the advance commando Moscow after that.
QDid you remain in the advance commando Moscow after that?
ANo. I myself at the same time, that is, about the middle of September 1941, transferred to the Group Staff of Einsatzgruppe B, to the SD Deportment as expert for Russian captured material and as interpreter.
QHow long worn you in Advance Commando Moscow then?
AI was in the Advance Commando Moscow from 10 or 11 July 1941 until the middle of September 1941.
QYou explained before that from the middle of September '41 onwards you worn transferred to the Einsatzgruppe B Group Staff to the SD as export on Russian captured material and as interpreter. How long did you work in that capacity?
AFrom the middle of September 1941 until the and of October 1941.
QAfter the end of October 1941, what did you do?
AAfter the now offensive had been started against Moscow, about 9 October 1941, at the and of October 1941, Nebe set up a small advance commando, the advance commando group staff, and I was put in charge of it. This Advance Commando Group Staff went to Gshatsk together with me where I reported to the competent army high command.
QDid Nebe recognize anything else?
AYes. About the middle of October 1941 people from the group staff and various exports in the advance commando Moscow were formed into another subcommando, the so-called Sonderkommando Moscow, that is, Special Commando. This was under the charge of the up till than SD men of the staff of the Einsatzgruppe B, the SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Buchardt.
DR. MAYER:Your Honor, in order to illustrate the following questions,I have made a sketch, and in order to make it easier for you to understand it, I would like to submit it.
PRESIDENT:We would be very happy to receive it.
DR. MAYER:There are three sketches, Your Honor, each sketch for a certain period about which the witness will speak now. BY DR. MAYER:
QWitness, please explain this rather confused situation -- the development after taking over the subcommando -- advance commando was taken over by Koerting -please describe to us what happened chronologically.
AKoerting took over the command of the Advance Commando Moscow in the middle of September 1941;apart from the advance commando Moscow of which Koerting was in command, Note created in the middle of October 1941 the Sonderkommando Moscow, and at the end of October 1941 he created the advance commando group staff of which I was in command. At the end of October 1941; therefore, three different commandos existed -- simultaneously, which were under Einsatzgroup B. Apart from those commandos known; namely, first, the Advance Commando Moscow; second, the Sonderkommando Moscow; third, the Advance Commando Group Staff.
QWhat was the purpose of creating these two later new commandos?
AThe Sonderkommando Moscow and the Advance Commando Group Staff had the same tasks, namely, to occupy important buildings in Moscow immediately and to secure all documentary material. Nebe had the ambition that if Moscow should be taken that he and his office should establish themselves there.
as soon as possible, so that the destruction of document material which can always be expected when a town is captured, be reduced as far as possible. He, therefore, created the two commandos I mentioned, attached each one to a different army and, therefore, he felt guaranteed that one of the commandos would certainly be on the spot when Moscow was captured. Therefore, every commando was given the special task to look for quarters for headquarters of the staff of Einsatzgruppe B immediately. The advance commando Moscow, which originally had been intended for those purposes, I just mentioned, retained its name, but at the period last mentioned it had lost its original purpose. Its Moscow experts had been taken away, when the Sonderkommando Moscow was set up and the Advance Commando Staff, and its task was only that of a normal Sonderkommando. This may sound strange, but it was like that. The designation "Advance Commando Moscow" was retained for reasons of convenience.
QPlease describe again the task of the Advance Commando Group Staff of which you were in command.
AThe Advance Commando Group Staff had been given the mission to go with the combat unit, or immediately behind them, to Moscow and there to deal with the tasks of the security police and the SD and to secure all the buildings and equipment important for this; apart from that, to set up headquarters for the group staff.