or the order to return to Berlin reached him at the end of January 1942. He said before that in February 1942 his state of health improved. He did not yet say when he was relieved in the East.
THE PRESIDENT: I understood himto say that in February 1942 he had a relapse of the Wolhynian fever. But since he was in Berlin at that time, if he had any fever at all, it would have to have been the Berlin fever.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, I did not -- (Interrruption)
THE PRESIDENT: Don't worry about it, Dr. Heim, it isn't that important.
DR. HEIM: How long were you in the East?
Q Before March 1942 you did not go to Berlin?
Q When did your successor take over the Special Commando SK 4-a? beginning of January, new officers of Gruppe C had been detailed to take over the administration of the current administrative matters.
Q Who was the successor as the leader of SK 4-a?
A My successor was Dr. Weinmann.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, before I conclude with the activity of the defendant as the leader of SK 4-a, I want to cone back to a number of documents of the Prosecution. BY DR. HEIM:
Q A preliminary question. Witness, did you yourself ever order executions to be carried out?
A I never ordered executions, and never carried out executions. In each case I received orders for the execution from my superiors. In cases in which I myself received such orders there was documentary evidence on the basis of which the responsible bearer of the order had decided upon these measures, and which, in my opinion, were justified according to international law.
Thus parts of the Commando under the Army, or under the Higher SS and Police leader who carried out these measures -- these units had been ordered by the commander of the AOK 6 or by the Higher SS and Police Leader to carry out these measures.
on page 27 of the German text. It is exhibit No. 132, document No. N)-4438. In the English document book it is on page 20. It is an affidavit by the co-defendant Radetzky of the 25th of July 1947. Under figure No. 5 which is at the end of page 2 of the original of the affidavit, the defendant Radetzky says, I quote: "I also know that Stadartenfuehrer Blobel ordered executions." End of my quotation.
Witness does this affidavit not contradict your own statements? executions, but in each case 0 have received express orders to carry out executions from superior authority. My own explanation of Radetzky's statements is that he wanted thus to express that I had these executions carried out by members of the SK 4-a. As it becomes evident from the lines just before, in this affidavit, Radetzky hardly knew anything about the executive measures in regard to executions of the SK 4-a, so that he was not in a position to know on whose order these executions were based. 4-a carried out executions which had been ordered by AOK 6 or other authorities. Did you not have any moral scruples about carrying out executions -- that is, did you regard the carrying out of these executions as in agreement with international law and in agreement with humanitarian principles? indulging in espionage and sabotage, and those who were of a detrimental of ect to the German army, were, in my opinion, completely in accordance with the Hague Convention. I believe that the Allies could have acted differently in their advance into Germany if they had been faced with the violations of international law which the German Army faced inthe East. Inhuman treatment of German soldiers, the bestial treatment of such soldiers, and shooting of such soldiers by Russian civilians from ambush, and the unlawful warfare waged by the Russian would fill whole archives.
The AOK 6 collected these incidents as proof. For this purpose special departments were established, and from the very beginning of the fighting, such cases could be established. As far as I know, the German Wehrmacht suffered about ten to fifteen dead each day -who had been killed on the march through these territories on the march to the front - shot from ambush, in violation of international law.
I myself saw one morning, five members of the German army shot and han gthe corpses. The reports from Department 6 show that five German airmen
THE PRESIDENT: There seems to be a question about the interpre tation.
Just a moment please.
INTERPRETER: Your Honor, it is actually "welding machines." I cannot imagine that that is what the defendant said. "Welding apparatus." Yes, it is a welding machine, your Honor.
(witness continuing.) taken part. In those localities which the German army passed on the advance, atrocities increased. The last incident which I know from the report myself, happened in Charkow. In the winter from 1941 to 1942 an engineer company on the march was attacked by Russian panje cars-which are horse-drawn vehicles loaded with straw, and they were attacked from those cars with machine guns and killed. The following Russian armored cars rolled over the corpses of the members of the German army. BY THE PRESIDENT: Eastern front?
been committed by the Allies. Your only experience with the enemy in this war was with Russia, was it not?
A What I am stating concerns only Russia. Yes. "Allies" -- at least, that is theway we got it.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, may I say something here? The witness said, "I believe that the Allies during their march in Germany would not have acted in a much different manner if the same violations of international law had happened to them which happened to the Germans in their march to the East." Your Honor, I have laready noticed that through the translation the subjunctive does not come through. "Had" can mean in the German "Haette" or "Hatte". This, of course, gives the Tribunal a distorted picture.
THE PRESIDENT: He was only stating a supposition, then?
DR. HEIM: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
A (By the witness - continuing) As for this last incident in Charkow, it could be established that many partisan groups collaborated with the Russian army, and that was made possible because the frontal position was arranged in hedge-hog positions with large distances in between. The German dead are many - at least, those who were killed by invisible, armed civilians from ambush. One had to be very careful about the harmless-looking groups of fields workers who, in reality, were armed partisans bands, and only those who fought the Russians can really testify how ruthlessly and how brutally the Russians fought in this war. I wish, your Honor, you could seen these mutilated corpses and the brutality murdered German soldiers in Russia. for instance, where executions took place at the hands of Ukrainians and such people.
The supporters of the propagandists were the danger of the rear of the German army, and measures taken against these, and reprisals against such people are justifiable according to international law, or, at least, I regarded it as justifiable according to international law.
hostages I did not and do not regard justifiable. With such an order I do not agree and I do not agree with it today. the German text. It is Exhibit No. 31, Document No. 3825, and in the English document book it is on page 129. It is the affidavit of the Defendant Blobel of the 6th of June 1947. I refer to No. 7 in this affidavit, that is in the German document book on page 162, and in the English page 131. Your Honor, it is on 131 of the English document book. It says here, beginning with No. 7 end I quote:
"The Sonderkommando 4-a has killed women and children too." That is the end of my quotation. Witness, this sentence is in the affidavit which you gave to the Prosecution. Is this statement correct? children for espionage and sabotage and a military court martial passed judgment on them. women and children?
A Not under these circumstances. Every spy and saboteur knew what he had to expect when he was arrested.
Q Why did you have no moral scruples? losses and damage on the German side, if the individual was sentenced to death by the German Wehrmacht. I must, however, call those executions as morally indefensible if special units had to take a part in the shooting of women and children, as for instance in Kiev where I cannot say whether women and children were actually shot. I myself have never seen an execution of women and children and I never experienced such an execution. 1947. As Mr. Wartenberg confirmed when he was on the witness stand, this affidavit is an escerpt from your interrogation by the Prosecutor.
tion. Witness, were you ever during this interrogation, before you made out this affidavit, warned by the Prosecution that you had the right to refuse to give testimony about any facts which might incriminate you?
Q Did you make out this affidavit yourself, or did you dictate it? an affidavit was there submitted to me. in this affidavit? changes, whereupon a new affidavit was made out. On the afternoon of the same day I was called in again to sign the new affidavit and after I had read through this new affidavit I told Mr. Wartenberg that there was an erroneous and distorted picture in this new affidavit and that some additional remarks concerning the individual points would have to be inserted. Herr Wartenberg told me then that the text must not be changed, and that we would have many discussions about it in the future and any desired additions could be made then.
Q Were you called in again for an interrogation? to explain in how far the present affidavit does not correspond to the contents of your interrogations?
the shooting of women and children. I have already dealt with it during my direct examination and I do not have to explain my attitude now.
Q Witness, under No. 5 of your affidavit it says: "It is page 161 in German, it is 130 of the English, and I quote:
" According to a superficial estimate the correctness of which I cannot guarantee - I presume that the number of executions in which the Sonderkommando 4-a took a part lies somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000."
correct in this form, or can you give us a few further explanations as to these figures? a maximum number of the executed people in which the SK 4-a together with other units participated, insofar as a commando or even one man of the SK 4-a was concerned, This number, in my opinion, includes all operations which were ordered by superior authorities and which were made known to me at the time. I stick to this estimate and this limitation of this particular figure, even after having been made acquainted with the documents in this trial. Apart from the retaliatory measures which had been ordered and the measures carried out by a order of the Higher SS and police leaders, or of the Supreme Commander of AOK 6, SK 4-a only then carried out other executions if actually cases were established and based on investigations in the files of the office of the Supreme Commander of AOK 6 or his deputy, as long as I was leader of the SK 4-a. During this whole time of my command I never had to make an independent decision to carry out an operation. the English Document Book I of the Prosecution, and it says, and I quote:
"Q I witnessed several mass executions and in two cases I was ordered to direct the executions." That is the end of my quotation. Witness, do you have to make any explanatory remarks as to this? the Einsatz Commandos in Sokal in the neighborhood of the headquarters of the AOK 6, which was ordered by Field Marshal Von Reichenau, executions of perpetrators which had carried out tortures and brutal measures against German soldiers and I had to report the carrying out of these two executions to the Field Marshal.
6 of the affidavit, and I quote:
"In August or September, 1941, an execution took place near Korosten. 700 to 1,000 men were shot and Dr. Rasch was present at the execution." End of quotation. The impression could be created that this mass execution was carried out by you or that,is, by the SK 4-a, if the preceding and subsequent sentences are scrutinized; will you comment on the wording of this particular sentence?
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Heim, don't you think it will be better merely to call his attention to the statement and then let him give his comment? You proceded your question by indicating what the impression was. Now that may or may not be the impression of any one who reads it neutrally. Merely direct his attention to the sentence or paragraph which you think is subject to an interpretation in two ways and let him comment on it.
DR. HEIM: Thank you, Your Honor, for calling my attention to it. BY DR. HEIM:
Q Witness, you have heard the quotations from the affidavit. Please comment on the statement of that dry? Leader in August of 1941 near Korosten. The Higher SS and Police Leader had detailed police units as well as Ukrainian militia for this operation, and I found out about this operation because I received an order from Group "C" to look around among the prisoners and pick out members of the Ukrainian bandera and to bring them to Shitomir. At this time there were three interrogators and also a driver of SK 4-a who had been sent to Korosten to the community building in order to carry out interrogations. These officers had informed the G-2 of AOK via the Eastern Commandatura that the Higher SS and Police Leader had ordered the shooting of the arrested people, and as I have already explained AOK 6 had a special department for Ukrainian matters.
These people were in contact with this department and it was immediately ordered to pick these people out. The cause for this special operation by the Higher SS and police leader was the blowing up of the water tower and the railroad facilities in Korosten itself.
Q Will you further comment on your own connection with this, witness? fuehrer Mueller who was the Ukrainian interpreter in order to seek out 10 - 12 members of the Ukrainian bandera and to carry on long interrogations of these prisoners. These men were members of the bandera group who were active only in making propaganda for their own Ukrainian Nationalist idea. I picked out these people and took then with me to Shitomir and they were taken to Lemberg the next day. out in your own presence in Korosten?
A No, during my own presence no execution was carried out. When I had these people picked out in Korosten I found out that in a large operation in the whole area near Korosten, 700 to 100 persons had been arrested. I did not see the arrested people. The number of prisoners in Korosten from which I picked out those ten to twelve people, amounted to about sixty to seventy people.
Q In your affidavit you say that Dr. Rasch was present. How do you know that if you yourself were not present at the execution?
A I met Dr. Rasch at my departure from Korosten, having received a report by the AOK he had gone there to get his own information. Execution orders Rasch did not give in Korosten, as officers of Jeckeln, the Higher SS and Police Leader, were in charge of all of these operations there.
Q Witness, in your affidavit it says, under No. 6, page 130 of the English document book, and I quote: each". That is the end of my quotation. Does this statement refer to the statement of the executions in Korosten.
Please comment on the context and connection between these statements which you made to Mr. Wartenberg. an answer to the question as to the position of SK 4-a. At the time of the interrogation I said that the execution commandos of the SK 4-a were sub-commandos of the SK 4-a and at that time there were two sub-commandos which had been assigned to the front area, which contained 30 men of the protective police and approximately 30 to 35 People, state police, security police and men of the SD and, of course, drivers and interpreters. Each commando had half of the last mentioned category. In my interrogation I made this statement in answer to the question as to what was the strength of these execution commandos. But to put this sentence into the actual affidavit under No. 6 is illogical.
Q Furthermore, under No. 6 of your affidavit you describe explicitly the executions and that the President considered you as an expert in executions. Have you any comments or explanations or additions to make to that? answering individual questions about the actual carrying out of an execution, for instance. These statements are generally the description of an execution itself as they were carried out in the AOK under my leadership, and I think they also explain the matters regarding interrogations and sentences and examinations. The actual way of reproducing my statements were in a sort of a condensed form, as it is in paragraph 6 of the affidavit, and, of course, gives a distorted picture to the effect that the SK 4-a with the police and with the Ukrainian militia subordinated to it, actually carried out executions in Korosten and this is not the case. page 131 of the English document book. Have you any further comments regarding figure 8 of your affidavit, or have you anything to say in addition to it?
the following owrds are missing: "By order of the Higher SS and Police Leader took part in an operation."
Q This paragraph 8 of your affidavit deals with Kiev. In your testimony so far you have already commented on it, so that it is not necessary to repeat this subject. have you anything to say in addition to it, especially referring to your own person or your successor or your deputy, when you yourself were absent? Meyer who was in charge of SK 4-a when I was not present myself. I found this out later and I have already mentioned this during my testimony. come to Book 3-B of the Prosecution. It is on page 24 of the German text, it is Exhibit 119, it is Document No. 3842. BY THE PRESIDENT: Witness, you say Mr. Wartenberg did not indicate to you that you were not compelled to make any statement which might be interpreted as being adverse to your own interests?
Q Yes, that is what you said. Now had he said that, would you have withheld some of the statements which do appear in your affidavit? as I have already said.
Q Just a moment, please. You have gone over this affidavit paragraph by paragraph and almost sentence by sentence and we have understood your explanations so don't let us go into that. The question I am asking you is entirely separate and apart from what you have already told us. My question is simply this: Mr. Wartenberg failed to tell you that you were not required to make any statement which might be adverse to your interest? 1615
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Now my question is, if he had told you that would you have withheld some of the statements which you did make?
A No, I would not have withheld anything, your Honor. I said that I have nothing to withhold.
THE PRESIDENT: So the fact that he did not tell you that in no way prejudiced your case, because you would have spoken freely anyway, is that correct? this situation was only mentioned briefly in one point in the affidavit, and I had told him, Herr Wartenberg, this gives an erroneous and distorted picture.
THE PRESIDENT: I am not addressing myself as to that point of the affidavit at all. You have given us un some detail your version of what the interrogation really brought out, and you quarrel with some of the statements made here in the affidavit, and we understand that -
THE PRESIDENT: I will repeat it. Mr. Wartenberg didn't say to you "You are not required to make any statement which may be against your own interest."?
A No, he didn't say that.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. Now let us suppose he had said to you, "Herr Blobel, you are not required to make any statement which may be against your own interest." Let us now suppose he did say that. Would you have told your story to him in any way different from the way in which you did tell it to him?
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, that is all.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. I just wanted that answer, and you gave it to me very clearly.
BY DR. HEIM: It is Exhibit No. 119, Document No. NO-3842. I am not in a position unfortunately as to give you the English page. It is the affidavit of Eugen Steimle on 14 December 1945. On page of the German copy Steimle describes you as a bloodhound, brutal, and without any inhibition, and not very well liked. That is the end of the quotation. I want to ask you, witness, did you as leader of SK-4-A over have any dealing with the co-defendant Steimle? past activity as leader of SK-4-A? seen him, and I didn't know him.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, I shall now proceed in questioning the witness concerning the further events after his return and his further activities. BY DR. HEIM:
Q Witness, you were speaking of your recall to Berlin?
Q You mentioned your return to Berlin, didn't you?
Q For what reason were you detailed to Berlin?
Q When did you arrive in Berlin?
Q To whom did you report and what instructions were you given there? me that Heydrich would decide as to a further appointment, and I would have to wait for the return of Heydrich.
Q Where did you go after you had reported to Streckenbach?
immediately, I went to see my family in Solingen.
Q Give us the details of your visit to Heydrich? Heydrich personally, in the middle of May 1942 I reported to Heydrich in his office. Heydrich sat at his desk. He looked at me, sitting in his chair, "Well, you have developed a "tummy" - a stomach. You are a soft person. You can only to be used as a china manufacturer," and this statement of his followed me through the years. "You will only be used in a porcelain or china factory, but I will put your nose very much deeper into it. You will report to Obergruppenfuehrer Mueller." I reported to Obergruppenfuehrer Mueller and he was very short. I was asked about my billet, then I was ordered to go to my accomodations in Berlin Wansee, and to wait for further instructions from Mueller. Department-IV, Obergruppenfuehrer Mueller? was assigned by Obergruppenfuehrer Mueller, who was chief of Office-IV, to deliver the order about burning of the places of execution to the Commanders of the Security Police in the east. this order?
A I had already been given the instruction to see Dr. Thomas, who was in charge of Security Police in Ukraine, in order to pass on this order to him. I had to wait further instructions, and, therefore, I could not leave immediately. In August '42 Obergruppenfuehrer Mueller ordered me to go to Litzmannstadt, and to report to the State Police Office there. In the vicinity of Litzmannstadt there were old tombs from the time of the Poles, where corpses had been cremated. Various kinds of cremations were carried out there. In September 1942 I had to pass on the order to the commander of the Security Police in the Ukraine. Dr. Thomas, Chief of Group-C, and at this time the commander of Security Police in Ukraine refused to carry this out pending a conference with Reichfuehrer Himmler.
He thought that this was a very foolish order, and this I reported to Mueller after my return. It was in May 1943 that I had to see Thomas again in order to report to him, that the Reichfuehrer-SS, in disregard of his objection, demanded a burning of all these places on the whole Eastern Front. Dr. Thomas in June, July and August 1942 began with this work. According to his express wish, I had to prepare special fuels in Berlin for this purpose fuel quotas which were to be supplied from the fuel plants in the Ukraine. That demanded constant travel from Berlin to Ukraine. In September 1943 the front shifted within the Ukraine sector. Until that point only a few places had been scorched. With the front going back, the work was discontinued. In September 1943 I had to pass on the same order to the commander of the Security Police in Eastland, who was Brigadierfuehrer Piffraner. Piffaner was in Berlin for a conference and had already received directives from Mueller in Berlin. The Higher SS and Police Leader Jockeln, who was Piffraner's superior, in his own sector begun with the scorching in October but he had discontinued this activity during the winter, and, only in June and July 1944 did he begin again. Here also the work was discontinued when the front shifted.
Q In what territories were these schorchings carried out? the eastland. ditions caused that?
Q What was your further assignment? RSHA, the Reich Security Main Office, and Gruppenfuehrer Roesner, in Leibach, and I was to be assigned in the partisan warfare. he had refused to deal with me, giving the reason that he had been assigned the mission of fighting partisans from the Reichfuehrer-SS, and he himself would make his own arrangements. I was supposed to go back to Berlin.
Court II-A Case IX
Q Did you actually work as liaison officer at any time?
Q Where did you spend the following months?
A The following months I spent in Marburg, on the Drau River. In January 1945 I developed a liver and gallbladder ailment there, and until 15 April 1945 I was in the hospital of Dr. Greiner.
Q Did you ever receive a further assignment? gave me a teletype on 13 March -- rather, the 13th April 1945, a teletype from the Reich Security Main Office in Berlin to the effect that on 11 April that was to be two days before - was to be in Berlin and report to Office-I. Therefore, the deadline had already passed.
Q Where were you during the last months of the war?
A From Marburg on the Drau I went to Salzburg. During the end of April 1945 Kaltenbrunner arrived and I reported to him. He presented me to his staff, he said: "Please, gentlemen, dispose over him," and without awaiting any further orders or assignment, I went in a volkswagen to the south, and joined the troops there, and crossed the High Tower Mountains.
Q When and under what conditions did you become a prisoner? went back the same way, because the Russians were pressing towards the north. My car burned down and to save myself I was dressed in my undershirt and a pair of trousers - I went to Rastatt where I was arrested by the Americans on 8 May.
Q To what camps were you sent?
A The first camp was in Rastatt; then Wagrheim, and after that a camp in a forest that was called Edelfing - and the Eidling Reid (Lake); then the Field Hospital 504. From Field Hospital 504 I was moved to Hospital 2057. That was in Garmisch. That was in August 1945. you were arrested? times, and thirty-five centimeters of intestines had to be removed. These were the after effects of the Wohlhynian fever. Then I also had trouble with my heart muscle. On 23 May 1947 I arrived in Nurnberg.
DR. HEIM: I have finished with the direct examination of the witness Blobel in his own defense.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: Defense counsel may now cross-examine Blobel if any defense counsel desires to cross-examine.
DR. RATZ: Dr. Ratz for Radetsky. BY DR. RATZ: affidavit contained in Document Book I, page 159 of the German text, page 129 of English. In the last paragraph in your affidavit you have said verbatim the following, I quote:
"9. Since, during the period from June 1941 until January 1942, I was several times seriously ill, and confined to various hospitals, I cannot be charged with responsibility for all the executions of the Sonderkommando 4-A. During the period of my absence the kommando was taken over by Dr. Rasch, Haupsturmfuehrer Waldemar von Radetsky, and Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Beyer; under their direction a number of mass executions took place too." that it was not Radetsky but Hauptsturmfuehrer Mayer that commanded Special Kommando 4-A in your absence. I now ask you to explain in detail how this No. 9 in your affidavit came to be made out.
A Paragraph No. 9 of the affidavit of on the 6th of June, 1947, came to be made out in the following manner: Mr. Wartenberg asked me who commanded the kommando during my absence, and he named a few officers who belonged to the Kommando. I certainly did not know for the simple reason because of illness I was absent and when I left I did not order that this man or the other man assume command, for I was unconscious and had high fever. Only later when I returned to the kommando in Zhitomir, I heard that Hauptsturmfuehrer Mayer had been in charge of the kommando. He was the permanent deputy of Group C with the Higher SS and Police Leader Jeckeln, and he was also present with him in Lutsk. At that time the SS and Police Leader Jeckeln ordered him to assume command of the Kommando. That is what I learned when I returned to Zhitomir; during the entire period of my absence Mayer actually did lead the kommando.