DR. BERNHARD LAUBER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE MUSSMANO: Please raise your right hand and repeat after me. I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE MUSSMANO: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McHANEY:
Q. What is your full name, Dr. Lauber?
A. Dr. Lauber. My first name is Bernhard.
Q. Your last name is spelled L-a-u-b-e-r?
A. Yes.
Q. When and where were you born?
A. In Wojnicz, Poland, 1911, on the 3rd of November.
Q. Are you a Polish citizen?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. Are you Jewish?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. What is your profession?
A. I am a physician.
Q. Where did you study medicine?
A. In Bologna, Italy.
Q. Did you practice medicine before the war?
A. Yes.
Q. Where?
A. At Tarnow, Poland.
Q. When did you begin to practice there and how long did it continue?
A. In 1937, the second half, until the outbreak of the war when I went to a place near Przemisl where I continued my practice.
Q. How long were you there?
A. In Przemisl until 1943, until July, 1943.
Q. Did you have to live in the ghetto there?
A. No, I did not live in the ghetto there because before July of 1943 all Jews were resettled, some of them were killed, and I was the only physician which was allowed to remain alive, I was passed over, I and my wife and my little child which was eleven months old, because I was working in the hospital. My wife and my baby of eleven months were shot by the Gestapo. I was then in the hospital working there. The hospital was half a kilometer from my home. When I returned home at lunchtime I found strange people, told me that my wife and my child had been shot, and I was looked for to be shot myself. I then went into hiding, into a farm, at a farm where I remained for two weeks. Then I ran away from there. I walked to Przemisl, to the ghetto.
Q. Have you ever seen you wife and child again?
A. No, never.
Q. And what did you do after you got to the ghetto?
A. I lived there under an assumed name. I got identity papers, and I was a street cleaner.
Q. Did there come a time when you were sent to a concentration camp?
A. That was in August 1943.
Q. And were you sent to Auschwitz?
A. No, I was sent to Schebnik, that is in Polish Galicia. I was there for about nine weeks, and from there one day, in the evening with only underwear, without any clothes, without shoes, I was loaded on a wagon and sent to Auschwitz. That was roughly on 6 November.
Q. 6 November, 1943?
A. 1943, yes.
Q. How many other persons were sent on this transport to Auschwitz with you?
A. Approximately 2500.
Q. You were sent there in freight cars?
A. In cattle wagons, in movable cattle wagons, not wagons for persons.
Q. How long did the transport take to Auschwitz?
A. Roughly three or four days.
Q. Were you provided with food and water while you were on the transport?
A. Nothing at all.
Q. How many people were there in each car?
A. About seventy to eighty people.
Q. Were you able to lie down and sleep?
A. No, there was no room.
Q. And you say that you were not provided with clothes?
A. Only underwear, but no shoes.
Q. Now, what happened after you arrived in Auschwitz?
A. The wagons were opened and we were beaten while we got out of the wagons, and we were assembled in rows and a camp doctor asked us what our professions were. Some were sent to the right side and the others to the left side. The ones on the right-hand side were loaded on trucks. I said, "I am a physician. I am thirty-three years old," so I went to the left-hand side. The ones on the right-hand side sat down, and then they were loaded on trucks and driven away. I heard later when I was in the camp, I heard that they had been sent to the gas chambers. We were driven to the camp barefoot. Snow was on the ground. It was November. We were given very dangerous beatings. One SS man cried, "Beat fast," and the other SS man beat us, "and drive slowly". So under beatings we arrived at Auschwitz. I remember very well when I entered the gate an SS man showed me the chimney and said, "Come along, there is only one road to freedom here. That is the chimney."
Q. How long did you stay in Auschwitz?
A. About one year.
Q. What work did you do while you were in Auschwitz?
A. I was what was called a nurse in one block.
Q. What was the number of the block?
A. It was I worked in Block 6, the quarrantine station, and then in the hospital of the Camp F, which was Block 15.
Q. Do you know the name of the doctor who made the selections of prisoners in your transport?
A. Dr. Mengler and Dr. Thilo.
Q. Now, Dr. Lauber, are you able to tell this Tribunal from your observations in Auschwitz that large numbers of people were being exterminated there?
A. No, I cannot give you the figure but it must have amounted to millions. I cannot say the exact figures. I cannot estimate it.
Q. Do you remember the arrival of Hungarial Jews in 1944?
A. I remember that very well.
Q. When did these transports arrive with Hungarian Jews?
A. These transports arrived between May and July, three or four trains a day, roughly three or four trains per day. They arrived either by day or by night. The tracks were in the camp, and from my place of work I could observe when these transports arrived. The transports were lines up in rows, and Dr. Mengler and Dr. Thilo and other SS men stood there, and Dr. Thilo or Mengler pointed with his thumb, his right thumb, right-hand side, left-hand side, and I remember even that on that occasion he whistled a sort of tune. The people who went to the right-hand side remained near the train, and the ones on the left-hand side went to camp. The trucks came along, and the people who stood near the train were loaded on the trucks and driven away towards the crematorium.
At that time we saw how all the chimneys of the crematorium were smoking, and the holes which had been dug near the crematorium showed big fires.
Q Did these transports of people in Auschwitz, did these persons bring with them trunks of clothing and other personal effects?
A Yes, they brought everything along. Some of them were very well dressed.
Q Do you know whether or not these Jews who were sent into Auschwitz were told that they were being resettled?
A The Jews said that they were being sent to Poland to do some work.
Q But I mean, when the Jews, for example, were evacuated from the Ghetto, were they told that they were going to be resettled by the Germans and that they should bring along all of their moveable effects, all of their moveable property?
A Yes, they were told to bring everything along. When they left the train in Auschwitz everything was taken away from them.
Q You say everything was taken from them in Auschwitz?
A Immediately, they had to leave everything in the train. That was a special order. So a group of inmates formed who occupied themselves with taking the things away from the people on arrival.
Q And were they forced to surrender the clothes which they were wearing?
A No, not at the train. The clothes were taken away from them when they took a bath.
Now, do you know what happened to this property which was taken from the inmates then they arrived, clothing?
A Yes. All clothes was assembled in the so-called material camp and from there they were sorted out and they were loaded on trains and called "presents for Pohl." They were sent to Germany.
Q Do you know whether the hair was shaved from the heads of the women before they were executed?
A Yes.
Q Do you know what was done with that hair?
A No.
Q You were going to explain about the cutting of the hair. Will you go ahead with that?
A The hair was cut off immediately on arrival, when washing in the bathing room. I didn't know where the people who were executed had their hair cut.
Q Were there large quantities of clothing and other property which were shipped out?
A Immense quantities.
Q And you say that property was called "presents for Pohl."
A Presents for Pohl. That was quite generally known in the camp.
Q Do you know who Pohl was?
A I was not interested in that. I do not know.
Q You mentioned the name, Dr. Mengele. Do you know anything about medical experiments performed in Auschwitz on inmates?
A Yes; in Block 15, where I worked, Dr. Mengele assembled roughly 60 or 80 inmates, twins. Everybody came along there every two or three weeks. He took from them about 30 or 40 cubic centimeters of blood, and before he did so the twins - they were usually children - had to starve for 24 hours.
He took X-ray photographs and a number of medical examinations. Then some of them were taken away from the Block. And what happened to them afterwards, I do not know.
Q You say he was interested in research on twins, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q Do you know whether he ever made any experiments with the ovulation of women, in an effort to determine whether a method could be devised for causing women to have twins?
A No.
Q Have you ever heard of a Dr. Klauberg?
A No.
Q Do you know anything about sterilization experiments on inmates at Auschwitz?
A Yes, I do. In my Block there worked a man who lived in the office, and he had been sterilized.
Q He had been sterilized at Auschwitz?
A In Auschwitz, yes; he had been sterilized in Auschwitz by X-ray treatment. I think he was a Czech too.
Q Do you know the doctor's name who performed these X-ray sterilizations?
A No.
Q Was he castrated after having been sterilized with X-rays or not?
A No.
Q How old a man was he?
AAbout 26 or 28 years of age.
Q Do you know of any other medical experiments in Auschwitz?
A I heard that many were castrated and that many were sterilized and Dr. Thilo carried out a number of operations, but I myself did not see it.
Q Now, Doctor, you left Auschwitz in November, 1944?
A Yes.
Q And where did you go?
A We went to Oranienburg, where we stayed for two weeks in the quarantine station. From there, we went to Sachsenhausen for two days, and from there some of us were sent to Ohrdruf. And the other part probably to Stutthof.
Q And the camp, Ohrdruf S-3, was an outside camp of Buchenwald.
A Yes.
Q Approximately how far from Buchenwald was it?
AAbout 60 kilometers.
Q And will you describe the camp in Ohrdruf?
A Yes, certainly. It was about 2 kilometers distance from the town, on a hill, and formerly these were SS barracks - at least we were told so. When we arrived there were no beds and no equipment of any sort. We had to, from a so-called prisoner-of-war camp at a distance from our camp of about half a kilometer, fetch certain equipment such as tables, benches, beds and so on, and take them to the North camp. That was done, of course, in the first case after our arrival, and we had to run to and fro and were beaten by the SS men.
Q You mentioned the North Camp. Was there also a South Camp?
A Yes, there was a South Camp. Near Ohrdruf another two camps were founded - Krawinkel and Zeltlager.
Q Now, was the North Camp a work camp?
A Up to the first half of January it was a work camp.
Roughly in the middle of January it was used as a hospital place.
Q In other words, before the middle of January, 1945, the North Camp of Ohrdruf S-3 was a work camp.
A Yes.
Q And then afterwards it was a convalescent camp.
A It was a camp for ill people.
Q What sort of work were they doing at Ohrdruf?
A I was a male nurse
Q I mean, what type of general construction work was being done in the camp of Ohrdruf?
A Twelve kilometers from Ohrdruf they built in the mountains, tunnels, underground.
Q Were the tunnels very large?
A It was a very large operation and very heavy work. We started it.
Q And how many inmates did they have working there?
A From the North Camp and the South Camp - people worked from all four camps, in other worked there. But I could not give you the number. As far as our camp was concerned, which was at first a work camp, there worked up to 4,000 people.
Q Do you know how many there were in the South Camp, roughly?
A No, I do not.
Q Now, what were the living conditions in the North Camp?
A The conditions were terrible.
Q Did they have good hospital facilities?
A We had no hospital equipment at all. Most of the ill people, the so-called Group 4 - those who were not capable of working - they were accomodated in the stables.
There were no beds in those stables. It was a concrete floor. The sick people lay on the bare floor, without straw, without covers and blankets; no drugs; and these ill people were given 50 per cent of the food which we were given. They were so ill that they couldn't eat very well. They lay there, with open wounds and they were not dressed, and they died there by the thousands. On one occasion, for two or three weeks, these people accomodated in the stables were examined for transport and some were transported away. And Dr. Gremius said they were going to Bergen-Belsen to recover.
Q Did you ever hear what happened to them in BergenBelsen?
A I do not even know whether they went to BergenBelsen, or what happened to them.
Q Who was the SS doctor in the North Camp?
A Dr. Gremius.
Q Now, can you tell us anything about the nationalities of the inmates working in Ohrdruf?
A There were many nationalities there: Hungarian Jews, Polish Jews, Jugoslavs, Greeks, Russians, and Italians.
Q Were there some French there?
A Not very many but there were some Frenchmen.
Q Were there any prisoners of war?
A Yes; Russian prisoners of war.
Q Did you ever hear that actually what they were constructing at Ohrdruf was a headquarters for the Fuehrer?
A No, we were told that underground factories would be constructed.
Q Now, Dr. Lauber, can you tell us approximately how many inmates died in the hospital in the North Camp during the period that you were there?
A In the North Camp, between the middle of January up to the beginning of April, there died - according to my estimation - three to four thousand people. Then another two thousand were sent to what was described as "recreation" and that 2,000 add up to about 5,000. Until the middle of January, whenever the commanders left the parade ground, there remained on the parade ground, roughly, about ten to twelve dead each day; and in the evening when the commanders came back. And about twenty each day were loaded on those trucks and I - as the nurse at the beginning of the camp - and the nurses of the blocks had to know how many had died, and had to go to the mortuary and identify the people in their blocks because the SS people had to know that for their roll call.
Q Can you state what clothing was given to the inmates in Ohrdruf?
A The inmates in Ohrdruf were given wooden shoes, trousers, and a jacket - nothing else at all. That was in the middle of winter. Although the prisoners worked throughout the night, they worked in those clothes. I, myself, worked in a detachment in a Kommando for three weeks, building a tunnel.
Q What food was given to the inmates?
A In the morning we were given black coffee and bread. Sometimes it was given only in the morning, sometimes in the evening, about 300 or 250 grams of bread; twice a week we were given additional bread. Twenty grams of muffin or a bit of sausage, or when there was no sausage, we were given jam - a minute portion of jam. When we returned from our work in the evening we were given some soup; sometimes it was beet soup, sometimes it was potato soup. One could almost always call it water.
Q Is the name Dr. Pook familiar to you, witness?
A Dr. Pook? I heard the name Dr. Pook mentioned once. The chief doctor of our outside hospital told us Dr. Greumius was with the Obersturmbannfuehrer or something--I don't know the ranks. In any case it was the dentist in the camp, and he said: "Teeth must not be treated--only extracted; and no anaesthesia must be used."
Q Now, can you tell us what happened to Ohrdruf at the end of the war?
A Yes; on or about the second of April we heard the American Army guns and we were told that the American Army had reached the town, and we were certain that the Germans would leave us behind. I, for instance, worked in a hut where there were about 400 people ill with typhus. Many of them were unconscious; they had very high temperatures. And in other huts there were also grievously ill people, and we were quite certain that we would be left behind because there is no sense in transporting dangerously ill people to various places; that would be a great danger, and we were quite certain that we would be left behind. Suddenly--roughly at three o'clock in the afternoon--there came somebody with the camp Dr. Greumius, together with SS men and a man called Stuebitz, and they cried that all prisoners, whether they were ill or not, should assemble on the parade ground. People walked out and the ill were loaded on trucks. Those who were a little better were driven off on foot and they marched away in little groups guarded by SS men. We nurses and doctors remained behind to the last. Many people were hiding in various corners in the huts because they believed if they could last until the next day, the American Army would liberate them. These, the Camp Leader Steubitz and the Camp Dr. Greumius found and shot them down. I, myself, saw how Camp Leader Steubitz used an automatic machine-pistol and Dr. Greumius also had a gun in his hand; and they walked around the camp with other SS men, and I heard shots fired in the huts and between the huts. I saw groups of prisoners who were shot down. Then some of the ill--a small part of the ill persons, perhaps 30 or 40 or 50 persons, where it was not possible to load them on trucks--were also shot. We, the doctors and the nurses, left the camp last, and after about twenty minutes we saw an enormous fire, and we knew that the camp was already on fire.
Q Did you receive a tattoo when you entered Auschwitz?
A Yes; my number is 161374.
Q Will you show the Tribunal your tattoo, please?
A Certainly. (Witness rises, unbuttons shirt and bares forearm to Court)
Q Doctor, what are you doing now?
AAt the present time I am a so-called Camp Doctor in the UNRRA camp near Aschau, which is a children's camp.
Q And how many people are under your care there?
A Fourteen hundreds.
Q And what is your exact address, Doctor?
A Dr. Lauber, Bernhardt -
Q No; I mean the place where you live.
AAschau, near Milldorf; UNRRA Camp 1068.
MR. MCHANEY: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Does anyone wish to cross-examine the witness?
DR. RATZ: (Counsel for the defendant Hermann Pook) BY DR. RATZ:
Q Witness, you said that you heard of Dr. Pook once, and you also said that there had been an order that teeth must not be treated but only extracted, and no anesthesia should be used. It was not quite clear who told you this, and whether it was an order. You referred to the Chief Doctor of the SS Hospital.
A Certainly. The chief doctor was a Pole; his christian name was Joseph, and he told me -- and he said that the doctors (I lived among them always) -- he said that Dr. Pook had given an order to other doctors that teeth must hot be treated--only extracted, and no anesthesia must be used. After all, the teeth could not be treated because there were no dentists stationed there.
Q There was no dentists stationed there?
A No, there was not.
Q Was there no dental station because the camp was so new a camp, or did you observe that there was no equipment there anyway so that patients could be treated?
A I was there from beginning to end, and throughout that period there was no dental equipment there at all.
Q Do you know whether a camp dentist was used in Nordhausen, was active in Buchenwald?
A Not that I know of.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there other cross-examination? If not, the witness will be excused, and the Tribunal will recess until onethirty.
(Witness excused)
MR. MCHANEY: If the Tribunal please, if I might again ask the indulgence of Defense Counsel, we have a man by the name of Bielsky who was an inmate of Auschwitz -- but who shall not testify to these matters as we have heard this morning. He will relate how he worked for some time in the gravel pit -- or sand pit -- which was run by the DEST industry in Auschwitz; and DEST was under the direction of the defendant Mummenthey. And we would like to call him this afternoon -if there is no objection. He will also testify, I may say quite frankly, that he observed the defendants Pohl and Bobermin in Auschwitz, during the year, I think, 1943 or '44.
DR. FROESCHMANN (Counsel for the defendant Mummenthey): I have had no opportunity to talk to my client about the witness. I must therefore contradict the idea that there should be this witness this afternoon.
MR. MCHANEY: Well, if there is a substantial objection to it we will hold him then until Monday.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, could you not talk to your client between now and one-thirty sufficiently?
DR. FROESCHMANN: May it please the Court, time would not be long enough.
THE PRESIDENT: Could you be ready by two o'clock. Could you have time to talk to him by two o'clock?
DR. FROESCHMANN: I am unable to say so before I have seen the defendant Mummenthey. I would like to ask to hear this witness on Monday.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't want to appear to take any advantage of you, but if you could consult with the defendant between now and two o'clock, perhaps you would be ready to hear his testimony then.
Do you care to do that?
DR. FROESCHMANN: I will certainly talk to the defendant, sir, of course. But if time is not sufficient to receive sufficient information -- in that case I would ask to follow my proposition.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
Mr. McHaney, have you other proof to be offered this afternoon?
MR. MCHANEY: Yes, we can present that document from BOOK IV -Book IX.
THE PRESIDENT: I was under the impression that it was the witness -- or nothing.
MR. MCHANEY: No, no; however, it would be quite convenient to hear him this afternoon. He won't take a very long time.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we will recess until two o'clock, instead of one-thirty.
MR. MCHANEY: Very well.
THE MARSHALL: The Tribunal is in recess until 1400 hours this afternoon.
(A recess was taken until 1400 hours.)
(The hearing reconvened at 1400 hours, 11 April 1947)
THE MARSHALL: All persons in the courtroom please take their seats The Tribunal No. 2 is again in session.
MR ROBBINS: May it please the Tribunal I have Jelzy Bielski to call as a witness for the Prosecution.
DR. FORESCHMANN: Dr. Foreschmann for the defendant Mummenthey. May it please the Tribunal, during the noon recess I have talked with the defendant Mummenthey, and he is of the opinion that quite a number of questions have to be cleared in regard to the personal-technical relations on hand, and this will take up a more extended period of time, so this afternoon I would not be able to ask the appropriate questions on cross-examination. However, in order to assist the Prosecution in order to utilize the time of the Tribunal, I would agree that the witness who is examined this afternoon be examined, and that cross examination to take place on Monday morning. I believe that I will assist the Prosecution by doing so, so that they will be able to carry on.
DR GAWLIK: Dr Gawlik for the defendant Bobermin. I agree with the statement of my colleague, and would also agree that the witness be examined this afternoon and for the cross examination to take place Monday morning. However, I want to be taken into consideration that on the 8th April the Tribunal has made a ruling that before an interrogation of each witness on whatever subject, it is important in the event later if Prosecution has not informed us to what extent the testimony of this witness will be important as evidence in regard to the defendant Obermin. I, therefore, request the Tribunal to ask the Prosecution to state to what extent the defendant Obermin will be mentioned by this witness, in particular on the war crimes as indicated in the indictment, as well as crimes against humanity that will be charged against the defendant Bobermin by this witness.
MR. ROBBINS: I believe that McHaney stated before lunch that the witness would testify that he had seen Bobermin at the gas chamber at Auschwitz. As far as continuing his cross examination until on Monday, I think that will be all right, that is if the defense counsel at the end of his examination thinks it is necessary to hold him over until Monday. I believe, however, that defense counsel will find that is not necessary.
THE PRESIDENT. That, of course, if for the defense counsel to decide. Is this witness in custody of the American Forces here?
MR. ROBBINS: No, Your Honor, he is a voluntary witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Does he lives in Nuernberg?
MR. ROBBINS: No, he lives in Weiden.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any difficulty in keeping him until Monday?
MR. ROBBINS: I think that can be arranged.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you satisfait, Dr. Foreschmann with the statement as to what the witness will testify to in reference to Bobermin?
DR. FROESCHMANN: Yes, then perhaps I would like the Prosecution to state if this is already evidence as to war crimes and crimes against humanity, if one defendant happened to stand near a gaz chamber?
THE PRESIDENT: That is a legal argument which we can indulge in after we heard the witness testimony. Perhaps after you have heard him there won't be any doubt in your mind that he is not guilty of any of them. We will reserve that argument. Very well, the witness may be called for examination in chief with the understanding that his cross examination will deferred until Monday if desired.
let the witness raise his right hand and repeat after me: I swear by God Almighty and Omniscient that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
