Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A That is NO-111.
Q That is in order, the old organizational chart of the WVHA?
A Yes, that was already contained in the whole plan, which I discovered when I came into the WVHA.
Q Under Pohl we have a whole number of agencies which were directly subordinate to Pohl?
A Yes.
Q Left then is the house commander, and the house treasury belonged to that office?
A Yes.
Q And this agency carried out the payments for all the offices and for all the amtsgruppen?
A Not for all of them; only for the Reich sector in the house.
Q Very well, only for the sector of the Reich. However, in any case, not the Office A-I carried out these payments?
A No.
Q Did the Office A-I have anything to do with payments?
A It is very difficult for me to say if this was possible, for the time before I took over the office; in my time they did not even have a treasury any more, and cash payments could not be carried out by any office. This always had to go through some treasury.
Q That is correct. The Office A-I is called the budgetary office, I think, and therefore it may lead to a possible conclusion, if one believes that, if an office deals with budgetary matters then it has to make cash payments for all the offices and the office groups.
A Well, that has never been done in the budgetary office, in the budgetary system of the Reich.
Q That is correct, and that is what I want you to clarify. Therefore, the Office A-I did not have any financial assignments in that sense?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A It did not carry out any direct payments.
Q And, therefore, there is no connection with the other offices because of that?
A I cannot judge how it was worked out in the budget, and that was why I said previously that I cannot recall any details. I have no information about it. That is exactly as if somebody else really, truthfully testified about my personal matters.
DR. VON STAKELBERG: No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Recess.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
BY DR. GAWLIK: (ATTORNEY FOR THE DEFENDANTS BOBERMIN AND VOLK):
Q Witness, if I have understood you correctly, you said on crossexamination that the Economic Enterprises had been part of Office W; did I understand you correctly?
A Of Office Group W?
Q Did you say that? Did I understand you correctly?
A I don't know whether I said Office Group W or Office W.
Q If you deliberated on that point once more, would you not have to rectify your statement?
A Yes, for instance, speaking of the Economic Enterprises, I can only say what I know from my own knowledge, I could perhaps put it a little more clearly, that the various Economic Enterprises or companies were co-ordinated under the -- Office W concerned.
Q Witness, will you answer this question: were they part or were they not part of Office Group W? Would you have to rectify the answer which you gave on cross-examination?
A I don't know what I would have to rectify. They were outside agencies and branches which were supervised by the various companies. I am not a commercial legal expert. Some of them were kept on a treasury basis and all of them were active under Pohl in the various W-offices.
Q Is it therefore correct to say that you don't know whether the economic Enterprises were part of Office Group W? Please answer yes or no.
Q From my own knowledge, I am unable to judge this. That was too much outside of my department and -
A Therefore, you wish to correct your answer given on crossexamination to the effect that you don't know whether or not the Economic Enterprises were part of Office Group W. Please tell me yes or no.
A It is quite possible that I made a mistake. It was simply an assumption on my part.
Q Then you spoke -
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. What are you trying to get the witness to say? That the Economic Enterprises did not belong in Division W?
DR. GAWLIK: That he doesn't know that they were part of Office Group W.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any doubt about it? Is it disputed?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, of course, it was disputed that the single enterprises were part of Office Groups. The relationship was a different one. The various companies is what I mean. They were independent companies over which Office Group W only had the right of supervision.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, well, all right, if that's the only distinction, you can't make much of it.
WITNESS: May I say something about this?
DR. GAWLIK: Please do.
WITNESS: I said before that I know very little about commercial law and make a very poor distinction about the legal aspects for these measures. I do not have the expert knowledge.
Q Then you said that the German Economic Enterprises, G.M.B.H., had been an authority, a Government Department. Surely you don't wish to maintain that answer.
A I regarded them as various departments, but the Economic Enterprises themselves would not represent a Government department. I don't think I was understood to that effect. That would be quite wrong.
Q Then there is another question. Did the treasury pay the wages of the members of Office Group W?
A I believe I said clearly that neither the personnel office in Office Group A nor the Treasury had anything to do with the civilian employees and wages of Office Group W.
Q What does that show, as far as the position of Office Group W is concerned? That it is independent?
A That they had their own business treasury, so to speak. They had no Reich treasury at their disposal, nor did they have any access to a Reich treasury.
DR. GAWLIK: Thank you very much. No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: No further questions from the defense?
MR. ROBBINS: I only have two short questions, Your Honor.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q Witness, you told us something about Burger. Do you know what position he held in Amtsgruppe D? Burger?
A Yes.
Q What was that?
A He took over the tasks of the Department D-IV as Chief of the Office; as far as I know, he only became active as chief of the office in the autumn of 1944, approximately. He was formally appointed on that date.
Q Do you know what position was held by Mauer in Amtsgruppe D?
A Yes, he was in charge of D-II.
Q Do you know that both Maurer and Burger have been and are in the Nurnberg jail?
A Yes.
Q They would very likely be informed as to the organization of the WVHA and the task that Amtsgruppe D played, would they not?
A Those two, you mean?
Q Yes.
A Yes, they should. They were part of Office Group D. They should know a bit about it.
Q One last question: You weren't drafted into the SS, were you, or coerced to join?
A I?
Q You.
A No.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Mauer and Burger were captured after this case began, were they not?
WITNESS: Yes, I read about this in the newspapers.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: They were not in custody when this indictment was brought against these defendants?
WITNESS: No.
THE PRESIDENT: Any other questions?
DR. VON STAKELBERG: I have no further questions, Mr. President. I would ask that the witness be dismissed.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal may remove this witness.
(The witness was excused.)
THE PRESIDENT: And the next witness?
DR. VON STAKELBERG: Mr. President, the defense of Defendant Fanslau would like to put a few other questions to other defendants. I would ask permission to ask those questions when these defendants are being examined.
THE PRESIDENT: Of course, of course.
DR. VON STAKELBERG: Then at this time I have finished the defense of Fanslau and I will submit a document book later.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. The Defendant Hans Loerner is the next defendant to be heard.
DR. RAUSCHENBACH (ATTORNEY FOR THE DEFENDANT HANS LOERNER): May it please the Tribunal could Hans Loerner take the witness stand as a witness in his own behalf?
THE PRESIDENT: Of course.
HANS LOERNER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
BY JUDGE MUSMANNO:
Q Will you please raise your right hand? I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE MUSMANNO: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. RAUSCHENBACH:
Q Witness, please give the story of your life briefly.
A I was born on the 6th of March, 1893 in Munich. I visited the second grade school and after that a primary school. When my father died suddenly in 1910 I had to interrupt my studies. I wanted to become an engineer. My father had a large locksmith shop in Munich and I had to join the firm in order to preserve the business for the family. When the war broke out in 1914-18 I was drafted into the artillery and in the Spring of 1915 I went to the front where I remained until the end of the war. On the 1st of January, 1919, I was dismissed as a lieutenant of the Reserve. After the war I tried to start my business again. My mother had died in 1918. Through the inflation and heavy losses of some large accounts and by the economic depression and by a guarantee which I had granted for my brother-in-law, I was forced to close the business in 1930.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
After the business had been closed down completely, then from 1st April 1930 until 3rd October 1934 I became a technical adviser and representative in the Munich districts with a Nurnberg firm for special construction materials. That firm had formerly supplied my own business.
On the 1st of January 1932 I joined the NSDAP. On 1st April 1933 I joined the Allgemeine or General SS. On the 1st of October 1934 I became a full-time administrative officer of the Allgemeine SS and therefore left the Nurnberg firm. Until the outbreak of war I worked at a number of agencies, in Wuerzburg, Bayreuth, Munich, and in the end in Nurnberg. In 1936 I took part in some maneuvers with the heavy artillery in Landsberg on the Lech; and as a 1st Lieutenant I was accepted in the reserve of the Officer corps of the new army.
At the outbreak of war the SS did not release me to do service with the Wehrmacht. Otherwise I would have been drafted into the Wehrmacht as a captain. On the 1st of October 1939 as a Hauptsturmfuehrer I was drafted into the Waffen-SS as an administrative officer. I was first of all with the VT Division, and there I had to build up the supply office. In January of 1940 I was relieved by a younger officer, and I joined the administrative headquarters in Berlin. There I remained until the end of the war.
On 5 May 1945 I went to Bayrisch-Zell, where an evacuated office of the WVHA was located, then I became an American prisoner of war.
Q Witness, why did you join the NSDAP and the SS?
A I worked in my business for almost twenty years and in the end we had about forty or fifty employees; so in particular after the end the disunity in the German community became known to me. I believed and I thought that the NSDAP would succeed in eliminating that lack of unity, particularly the disunity caused by the thirty or forty parties. I hoped that the Party would succeed in establishing a national community which would promote understanding between its own classes Court No. II, Case No. 4.and would provide a livelihood and bread for the people.
I joined the Allgemeine SS because I was interested in administrative tasks. Even in my own business I was very interested in accounting; and it was my hope to build up a new livelihood there because I did not like the job of commercial representative.
Q In the Party and in the SS did you work politically?
A No. In the Party I was a simple Party member with the normal Party contributions. In the SS I was an administrative officer.
Q You said just now that you joined the Allgemeine SS because you were interested in administrative services?
A Yes.
Q Now, it cannot be assumed right away that somebody joins the SS because he is interested in administrative matters. What did you think otherwise about the SS?
A The SS was described to me as a select body of men. The SS would select only such people who were decent and above reproach. Two references were required. You had to show a certificate of conduct from the police. An excerpt of fines or other punishment from the files of the competent police headquarters had to be submitted. Decent behavior towards other members of the community was expected from you.
Q Witness, please describe to me your activity in the Allgemeine SS until the outbreak of the war.
A I joined a Munich unit as an auditing official. I had to look after the treasury, after the cashbooks. I had to accept the contributions of the members and look after the small expenses. I did not do any active service. On 1st October 1934 the then sector South Munich suggested to me that I become an administrative leader full time as they had noticed that I did not like being a commercial representative. I accepted that offer.
I was first of all an administrative leader with a unit in Wuerzburg for about two months, in October and November. Then I went to another unit in Bayreuth where I stayed until the end of January 1935.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
There I had to set up the administration. At the end of January 1935 I was transferred to the SS Sector South in Munich where I again had to accept the contributions of the sponsoring members. In 1939 the Allgemeine SS received new directives for its budgets and its accounting system. Thereupon I had to see to it that these new directives were observed, and also I had to train the administrative leaders, who came from all classes of the population.
On the 1st of April 1936 the SS Sector South was split up and I went to the SS Sector Main to Nurnberg. There again the various administrative agencies had to be set up; administrative officers were to be trained; and I believe it was in the autumn of 1938 that the head of the administration of that agency was transferred and I took over his position as head of the administration, where I remained until the 1st of October 1939.
Q Witness, now please describe to me your activity in the Waffen-SS until the establishment of the WVHA.
A As I said previously on 1st October 1939 I was drafted into the Waffen SS, and I became the head of the supply office of the SS Division V, which is the special task group, the former Verfuegungstruppe. There I remained until January 1940 and then I was replaced by a younger officer. Then I joined the Administrative Headquarters in Berlin, There I had to report to Pohl. I was initiated into the new administrative directives of the army, which applied also to the SS. For about six or eight weeks I worked there in Pohl's personnel office. There it was my duty to set up or help in setting up the personnel department, which had just arrived in Berlin.
As that activity did not seem to agree with me and also as Pohl seemed to be impatient with the speed in which the department was set up, and moreover as I was much more interested in troop administration, I got hold of Frank and on 1st May 1940 was transferred to the military administrative office, which was directed by Frank. That was the Higher Office KI. In that administrative office of the SS I worked Court No. II, Case No. 4.on the budget of the troops and supervised also the administration of the Allgemeine SS.
Q Let us talk about your activities in the WVHA. I shall put single questions to you about that part of the activity with which the indictment deals; I will put those questions to you later, but first of all you might give me a general survey about your activities, your duties, quite generally.
A When the WVHA was established, I remained in the budget department which in the WVHA had been extended to the whole of the Waffen-SS. Apart from that I worked on the Administration of the Allgemeine SS and also the Savings Association of the SS, so that in A-1 of Office Group A we had these three fields of tasks. First of all the budget of the Waffen SS, secondly administration of the General SS, and third, the Savings Association of the SS.
Q Witness, please describe to the Tribunal these three fields which had not become too clear from the interrogations and examinations so far. Perhaps you will begin with the budget of the Waffen-SS during the war.
A It is my intention to speak of the budget of the Waffen-SS here because so much has been said already, and in the latest speech which we have heard, all clarity has finally been eliminated. I would, therefore, like to ask the President that I might briefly say something about the budget of the Waffen-SS so that this business will be cleared up once and for all. May I say all this on the basis of the practical example. For the year 1942 and 1943, and then for 1944 and 1945, because around 1943 and 1944 there was a slight change. I believe that it has been stated that the Waffen-SS in war time had an open budget, a budget which had no limitation on it, in contrast to peace time when any single department had to account for its expenses for a whole year, and the exact sum was allotted. To give you a practical example, I am talking about the Garrison Treasury at Dachau; The Garrison Treasury at Dachau needed for the month of October its funds; the Treasury at Dachau supplied all units with money who were stationed at the Dachau garrison. Let us name the concentration camp Dachau, the clothing works of Dachau, the administrative school in Dachau, and the various other schools there, and the various units of the Waffen SS stationed there.
All those were paid by the garrison treasury as the central office. Now, the Treasury Garrison at Dachau in the middle of September demanded from the various units approximate sums which it would need for the month of October for all its expenses. Let us assume that the total sum involved here amounted to twenty million marks. On top of that, the Dachau Treasury had its own expenses, and by letter or by a teletype, directed to the WVHA, it stated that for the month of October its expenses would amount to twenty million marks. Such statements would come from all agencies of the Waffen SS, as far as they were not under the army, or were located outside of German territory. The Treasury Office of Amt II, which was called I believe A-II-2, would compile the various demands of the individual agencies into a total demand and let us assume that would have amounted to eighty millions marks, and that total demand would be passed on to the Reich Minister of Finance as money,required by the Waffen SS for the month of October. The Reich Minister of Finance transmitted that amount for October directly to the various units and agencies. This was not done through the WVHA. In this case, for instance, Garrison Treasury at Dachau for the month of October would have received from the Reich Minister of Finance on its account in Dachau, or Munich, with the Reichsbank, twenty-one million marks. The Garrison Treasury at Dachau then supplied in turn the various departments with the money they had asked for. This concluded the activity of the Offices A-1 and A-II, as far as the October budget was concerned. As far as spending money was concerned, neither A-1 nor A-II had anything to do with it. That was up to the various agencies.
Q What about the foreign countries?
A I shall talk about that later on. May I briefly say something else, because the heads of administration were able to spend all money they needed for the war in their own competence; they did not have to ask for permission from A-1; thus A-1 had nothing to do with payments, nor did the money pass through A-1. Now, as far as the Treasuries, outside had any income, let us assume that the Treasury of the Dachau concentration camp received money for the work done by inmates.
Let us assume a sum of two million marks. That amount at the end of October at the latest had to be sent to the Reich Main Treasury, because according to the Reich Budget Regulations, all incomes of the agencies had to be transmitted to the Reich Main Treasury, and they were not allowed to spend that money. After 1944 it was yet mere simplified, the previous application and the transmission by the Reich Minister of Finance were eliminated. The agencies received from the Reich Minister of Finance special brown checks, and these checks enabled them to cash the money with their Reichs Bank branch which they needed for the various months. Any previous application was unnecessary after that. The examination and check on expenses, that is to say whether the expenses had been justified, was up to the Reich Auditing Court. It had to examine whether the money had been correctly accounted for, and whether the expenses had been justified. How far Pohl took part in this I am unable to say from my own knowledge. Pohl might be able to say something about that. Agencies in foreign countries or in occupied territories had always received the money through these brown checks. Special regulations from the Reich Minister of Finance existed up to 1943 only for the agencies within the territory of the Reich. I believe that on the basis of this example it will have become clear how these budgetary funds reached the agencies, and that the expenses were not accounted for to the WVHA, but were dealt with independently by the agencies concerned.
Q Now, what about the administration of the money, of the private money which had belonged to the inmates of the concentration camps. Did Offices A-1 or A-II have anything to do with that?
A No. That money had nothing to do with the budget of the Waffen-SS. These were private moneys belonging to the inmates, and as far as I know, there was a special administration for money belonging which was probably subordinated to the commandant.
The budget of the Waffen-SS had nothing to do with that money at all.
Q What about the economic enterprises?
A The economic enterprises had nothing to do with the budget of the Waffen-SS, nor with budget of the Allgemeine SS in any sense of the word.
Q Now, let us talk about the administration of the Allgemeine SS in war time. Give us a brief survey, please.
A The Administration of the Allgemeine SS decreased very much during the war because members of the Allgemeine SS were drafted for military service, and, therefore, service with the Allgemeine SS was hardly possible. I would like to point out one peculiarity of the Allgemeine SS. The Allgemeine SS did not have a legal character; it did not have any property of its own; the property was owned by the party, that is to say, the Reich Treasurer who would decide about all important administrative matters.
BY JUDGE MUSMANNO:
Q Pardon me, do I understand that the Reich Party Treasurer -do I understand that the party treasurer and the Reich Treasurer were the same?
A Well, the Reich Treasurer was the party treasurer; they were the same; that was Reich Treasurer Schwarz; he was treasurer of the NSDAP, and he was called the Reich Treasurer Official.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
The Reich Treasurer had nothing to do with Reich funds. He only looked after the funds of the NSDAP. He had nothing to do with the Reich Ministry of Finance. The designation "Reich Treasurer" was only an expression. That was only a title which might be misleading. He had nothing to do with the Reich. He was only a Party official. He was responsible for the Party throughout the Reich. That probably was the reason.
The Reich Treasurer had reserved for himself the right to make all administrative decisions. He bought all houses, sites, lands, and so on. He had his own auditing department. An auditor of the NSDAP was the only man to audit the Treasury of the Allgemeine SS. He reserved the right for himself to establish telephone installations, and he was so potty in these things that it was hardly bearable.
In order to clear these things up, I would like to tell the Court a very brief episode. The Reich Treasurer in wartime insisted upon giving permission to have certain changes in the telephone installations effected, and only after his approval could the repairs be carried out. Bills had to be submitted to him for payment. Now, an agency once transferred a telephone from one room to the next, which amounted to about RM 3.50. The firm submitted the bill to the Reich Treasurer. Because of that small incident, which had not been previously approved by the office of the Reich Treasurer, there was a correspondence lasting for six months, which illustrates the pettiness of the agency of the Reich Treasurer.
BY DR. RAUSCHENBACH:
Q Witness, what did the administration of the Allgemeine SS do in wartime? Please tell us the main things.
A In wartime the administration of the Allgemeine SS concerned itself first of all with preserving property values, houses, furniture, machines, and so forth. Secondly, it looked after members and relatives of members who were killed or of those fighting at the front.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
The main work arose when a new wage scale was introduced by the NSDAP. It was extended to the Allgemeine SS after April 1, 1942. This was a wage scale with entirely new directives which did not lead to any simplification. There were so-called efficiency grades. It was almost a science to figure out how long a man had served, and it took about a year to learn it properly. The smallest planning agency had to be negotiated with the Reich Treasurer. Pohl charged me with the introduction of these measures, and therefore in 1942 and 1943 I was extremely busy.
I could perhaps briefly describe how Office A-I was staffed. The budgetary department of the Waffen SS from the beginning had only one officer. He was a Hauptsturmfuehrer; because actually in wartime very little was to be done there. The Savings Association of the SS at first had only one officer, one non-commissioned officer and a secretary. In 1943 the officer was transferred and only a non-commissioned officer and a secretary remained.
Q What was the activity of the Savings Association?
A The Savings Association was based on an order by Himmler. All full time members of the SS, Waffen SS, had to save. Compulsory deductions were made from their salaries up to a certain amount. That contribution did not bear any interest. It was kept there without any interest, but on the other hand from these saving contributions loans without interest could be granted. The amount saved there, as far as I can recollect, at the end of the war was about RM 8,000,000 or 9,000,000, which, to a large extent, was invested in Reich Treasury Bonds of three and a half per cent.
Q Witness, you were about to tell us the personnel strength of Amt A-I. Will you please continue to do so?
A We discussed the Waffen SS and the Savings Administration. The Administration of the Allgemeine SS was not situated in Berlin, but in Munich. From 1942 onward, until 1944, it consisted -- although I am not able to say precisely -- of five officers and five or six secret Court No. II, Case No. 4.aries.
In 1944 or 1945 they were reduced to about two or three officers.
Q Witness, were you not also charged with supervision of A-II?
A Well-
Q Will you answer my question?
A It was in 1944 at Easter that the Chief of Office A-II, Obersturmbannfuehrer Eggert, because the administration had to be simplified, was transferred to a unit in the field. The position of the chief of A-II was no longer filled because the administration was simplified, and work became less and less. The Office A-II-3 with its treasury was taken out of Office A-II and was put together with the budget department. I was put in charge of the remaining organization. I took part in the supervision there. I particularly took care of the wage-paying department of the Waffen SS, which was not using machines in order to save personnel, and to simplify all the forms to be filled in by the Waffen SS and to centralize them, that was part of the duties of A-II.
I would like to add here that all forms of the Waffen SS were included in this except the forms needed by the concentration camps and Office Group D. These were printed in the concentration camps especially, and we never saw a single one of those forms.
Q Witness, were you later on charged with the so-called simplification of administration, and what was that simplification?
A From 1943 onwards, in order to save personnel, still more simplification and centralization were insisted on. I was active when this was done from the end of 1943 onwards. I believe that it was in the spring of 1944 that the then Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl was ordered by the Reichsfuehrer to see to it that the Todt Organization be simplified. This was based on an order by Hitler to Himmler. Pohl ordered me to take part in this simplification of the Todt Organization, and I worked on it until the end of the war. That took up about ninety per cent of my total work, and this activity took me away from Berlin Court No. II, Case No. 4.about two-thirds of my time.
The staff consisted of three persons-one Ministerial-Counsellor of the Todt Organization, a director of an industrial concern -- I believe of the VIAG, V-I-A-G, but I can not recall the name, and I had to handle the administrative work which was done on a similar basis as that in the Waffen SS.
Q What was the purpose of that simplification?
A The purpose was mainly to save manpower for the front. That was the reason why the Hollerith machines were introduced when wages were paid in the Waffen SS. This saved personnel to almost eighty per cent.
DR. RAUSCHENBACH: Mr. President, this might be a suitable moment for a recess.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess until 0930 tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon the Tribunal recessed until 0930 hours 13 June 1947.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Oswald Pohl, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 13 June 1947, 0945-1630, Justice Robert M. Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II.
Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the Court.
DR. HAENSEL (For Defendant Georg Loerner): Your Honors, since everything went so quickly I must not forget that Georg Loerner will begin his case on Monday. I would appreciate it if the Tribunal would permit that Georg Loerner could possibly be excused this afternoon from the sessions so that I can speak with him. Could his absence possibly be granted for this afternoon?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the defendant's right to be present is his personel right, and if he wishes to be absent that is his privilege. He may waive his right to be personally present, and the Court will excuse him this afternoon.
HANS LOERNER- Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. RAUSCHENBACH:
Q. Witness, how were you paid?
A. In the General-SS I was paid according to the wage scales which were in effect for the General-SS and had been issued by the Reich Treasury and that according to the respective rank. In the Waffen-SS, however, I received my pay according to the Reich Pay Regulation "C" which applied to the soldiers. My last pay corresponded to that of a Colonel.
Q. And what was your pay as a total?
A. My last total pay in the General-SS, that is in 1939, before the war, amounted to approximately four hundred to four hundred and fifty marks a month.