Q I don't know how big the total number of Jews was as inmates of concentration camps at the time. I only know that it was officially noted that up to the 30th of January 1933 not a single brutality in the concentration camps had been committed against the Jews. At that time mainly the communists were sent to concentration camps and above all the politicians who had a detrimental attitude towards the Party. I believe that the Jews at that time made up a very low percentage.
Q You knew about the Pogrom. Did this not take place in 1938 when properties of the Jews all over Germany were destroyed and synagogues were burned? The SS took a part in that. Did you know about that?
A Yes, I heard of it afterwards. However, I would like to ask you that in the big trial before the IMT it has been clearly explained that the SS on Crystal Sunday in 1938 was the least participant in it, and, if the SS had its fingers in every pie as it is usually alleged, it was the least to have anything to do with this matter. I can remember this very clearly. With many other SS leaders in the evening at eleven o' clock I was standing with 15,000 or 25,000 recruits before the Feldherrnhalle. We had torches with us and Himmler in the presence of Hitler administered the oath to the young soldiers. When I went home from the celebration at eleven thirty, I saw the glow of a fire, and I inquired where the fire was. I was told that the synagogue was on fire. That was the first knowledge I received to the effect that the synagogue was burning in Munich. The SS certainly had nothing to do with this matter, because all the high SS leaders, that is in Munich, on that day, attended the administering of the oath at the Feldherrnhalle and the celebration lasted until eleven-thirty and afterwards all the SS leaders went to the Hotel Vier Jahreszeiten. I saw that news in Munich on the following day. I heard that the store windows had been pillaged, and that plundering and pilfering had taken place, and so on.
Q Who was responsible for the excesses if you exclude the SS?
A In my opinion this was the work of Goebbels.
Q Goebbels himself didn't do it; he is only one individual.
A No, but he had given orders to the SA and the Party.
Q You blame this on the SA?
A The SA and the political leaders. I believe that this matter has been explained in detail in the big trial before the IMT.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q You are quite right, Witness, and the IMT found as a matter of fact after hearing much evidence on the subject that the SS took an essential part in these pogroms. Where did you say you were on that occasion? Were you in Munich at that time?
A I was in front of the Feldherrnhalle when the young recruits were sworn in.
Q In Munich?
A Yes, that was in Munich.
Q You state from your own knowledge that the SS took no part in these pogroms in Munich?
A I haven't seen a single SS man who participated in it. As I have already stated, the celebration was solely a matter of the SS. There were thousands of SS men participating; and all of them were dressed in their best uniforms, that is to say, they were wearing their so-called parade uniforms. I don't think that anybody in his best uniform would take that uniform off in order to cause destruction and to set fires.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the first thing tomorrow morning I'll bring you the report of an SS man who will tell you himself what he did. We'll recess until that time.
THE MARSHAL: Tribunal II will be in recess until 0930 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 0930 hours 10 June 1947.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Oswald Pohl, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg Germany, on 10 June 1947, 0930, Justice Toms presiding
THE MARSHAL: Take your seats, please. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal No. 2. Military Tribunal No. 2 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the court.
AUGUST FRANK - RESUMED CROSS EXAMINATION - Continued DR. RAUSCHENBACH (Attorney for Defendant Frank): Mr. President, I shall withdraw the witness, Kurt Becher, and shall later submit an affidavit in my document book, signed by him, and therefore, this witness can be dismissed, in case he is waiting now.
THE PRESIDENT: Was this witness brought at your request?
DR. RAUSCHENBACH: Yes. He has been brought over here from prison and I believe he is waiting outside. I do not want him.
THE PRESIDENT: All right, the Marshal may dismiss the witness, Kurt Becher, who is no longer wanted as a defense witness.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q. Witness, you attended the speech by Himmler in Posen in October, 1943, did you not?
A. Yes.
Q. And yesterday you spoke about the clothing treasury, the clothing treasury in Lublin, under your supervision. Will you tell us by whom these pieces of clothing were repaired? You said that certain clothing was manufactured in Lublin and other clothing was repaired and mended there. Will you give us more details in that connection, please?
A. You mean only the treasury in Lublin?
Q. Yes, the clothing treasury.
A. That business goes back a long time and I can only reconstruct it from my memory. As far as the manager there told me about the manufacturing of the clothing treasury, new manufactures and repair work were carried out by the so-called textile work, Onjatova, and a few thousand sewing machines were placed there. It must have been that the workers there were jewish craftsmen who had been found by Globocnik and who worked under a German manager, under Globocnik's supervision.
Q In the so-called labor camps?
A I assume so. They must have been billetted in a labor camp, but I am not entirely familiar with the billeting conditions there.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Robbins, may I interrupt?
EXAMINATION BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q I told you yesterday, Witness, that I would show you a statement which indicates that the SS were the men responsible for the terrorism of the nights of November 10 and 11, 1933. By the way, where were you that night?
A Mr. President, that night I was present when young recruits were sworn in, young SS recruits, outside the Feldherrnhalle, that is, a large square in Munich where large celebrations were held, in the open air.
Q Did you observe any disorder and destruction that night yourself? A fire in a synagogue which was burning.
A Mr. President, I said yesterday that this ceremony started at 10:00 o'clock and as was usual on ministry occasions you had to be there an hour before. The whole of the SS that night was assembled at the latest at 9:00 o'clock on the square which I mentioned. At 10:00 o'clock the ceremony started. Himmler made a speech-
Q I know, you told me that everyone was in uniform and of course wouldn't soil his uniform by doing any of the things that have been mentioned and that all you saw was a fire from a synagogue which was burning. Is that right?
A Yes, Mr. President. The ceremony was over at half past eleven. We dispersed then and went home. It was then that I passed by the square where the synagogue was on fire. I saw that something was up and asked a policeman, "What's going on here?" He told me, "The synagogue is on fire. I have no time. I must rush there at once." I went home because it was midnight and I did not notice anything further of the whole action.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
Q That's the only disorder that you observed?
A Yes, Mr. President.
Q On the 10th of November 1938 an order was issued by order of the Group Commander that "all Jewish synagogues in the area have to be blown up or set afire. The operation will be carried out in civilian clothing. Execution of the order will be reported."
A Your Honor, I did not understand who issued the order.
Q I don't have the man's name. I am quoting from the order. I don't know who signed it.
A Mr. President, last night I looked at the testimony of Freiherr von Eberstein, the Higher SS and Police Leader in Munich, that is to say, the most responsible man on the spot. That statement made by the Higher SS and Police Leader of Munich to the IMT makes it quite clear that he had not received any official order to take part in any type of disorder whatever. On the contrary, he stated under oath that in the middle of the night at 1:00 o'clock in the morning he contacted the SS through his commanding officer, saying that any participation in the excesses would be prosecuted with heavy punishment. As he was also in charge of the Munich police, he saw to it that the policemen in Munich went to the most dangerous spots in order to restore law and order. From this testimony it also becomes clear that the Gestapo Chief Heydrich had actually issued an order, which describes the interference of the Secret State Police in the disorder. That was not the SS. It was the Criminal Police.
Furthermore, the testimony shows equally clearly that the same night and at the same hour when the SS was on the Feldherrn Square to be sworn in, Gauleiter Goebbels in one of Munich's biggest assembly halls made a wild speech against the Jews; and the participants of that meeting after the Goebbels' speech, roughly at half past ten, went all over the city, and there started the excesses.
Q It is always some other group or some other person that does these things, isn't it? Either the man that did it is dead or the Court No. II, Case No. 4.organization that did it is one that you didn't belong to?
A I'm sorry, Mr. President, that night the SS in Munich did not take any part at all; and if individual SS men committed excesses that night, one must not conclude from that that the SS as such, as an organization, took part in that particular pogrom. For, I believe.
Q Of course, Munich was just one spot in Germany where the excesses occurred. You don't know who participated in Berlin, in Frankfurt, and all of the other cities, do you?
A No, I am unable to tell you that, Mr. President; but the higher SS and Police Leader whom I mentioned, Baron von Eberstein, who was also responsible for the Nurnberg district, said in his speech, "We were deeply worried because of Nurnberg because of Streicher's being there. The Police President, Dr. Martin, was also strictly opposed to any excesses and took actions in that respect by which he thus made it clear to the International Military Tribunal that in Nurnberg there was a central spot of anti-Jewish agitation because Streicher was there, Streicher being the editor of the "Stuermer"; and he should have assumed that it all started from Nurnberg actually. But it was proved that Goebbels with his speech was the real cause for this pogrom.
Q Goebbels was stirring up the people in Munich and Streicher was stirring them up in Nurnberg?
A That must have been the way it was.
Q While Himmler was conducting graduation exercises for young SS officers?
A Yes, he swore them in.
Q Yes.
A I don't know anything about Himmler's real part in this affair, Mr. President. I haven't the knowledge.
Q Well, you do know that he was safely in the hall swearing in the new SS officers while the synagogues were being burned, do you not?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A That I know for certain, Mr. President.
Q Heydrich was contributing by telling his police not to interfere with the excesses?
A That I don't know but I think that must have been the case because Eberstein said so.
Q Of course. Then it is your belief that no SS man participated anywhere in Germany in the excesses of November 10 and 11, 1938?
A No, I don't believe that, Mr. President. Certainly a few SS men were present.
Q Oh, well, that's some concession.
A -- Just as much as Germans took part in it who wore no uniform at all or were not members of the Party.
Q You mean hoodlums, just lawless civilians?
Q You mean hoodlums and those who acted just as lawless civilians?
A No, they were not hoodlums, Mr. President. They were fellowcitizens who are marching around proudly today after having been denazified, and at that time were also anti-pillaging and plundering the Jewish stores. I am firmly convinced of that. Today these people do not wish to be involved in anything at all, and they claim not to have had any knowledge of these excesses. Today they just blame the SS.
Q They were not hoodlums. They just acted like hoodlums?
A Quite so, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: That makes it hoodlumism in my mind. I have given enough time to this.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Witness, you have stated that some individual testified before the IMT that the SS had not participated in any excesses on November 10th?
A Your Honor, that testimony was given by the competent SS and Police Leader of Munich. Of course, he could speak only for Munich.
Q That is right, and the IMT heard this testimony, and accepted it?
AAccording to the transcript in my hands, yes, Your Honor.
Q And you are under the impression that the IMT in some manner or another obsolved the SS as an organization from any participation in the excesses referred to?
A I didn't believe that the IMT did that, Your Honor.
Q I just want to call your attention to this fact, and, let me say that the Tribunal in any questions which it asks does not do so for the purposes of confusing, embarrassing, or even accusing you but only for the purpose of ascertainment of the truth; and I got the impression yesterday as you testified, which was confirmed even this morning, that you labor under the impression, that you labor under the belief that the IMT accepted this testimony which you have quoted here quite literally, that in some form or another absolved the SS from participation in the excesses of November 10th. Now you seem to be laboring under that belief, and it is only fair you know what is going on entirely and forever.
Now I shall read to you just what the IMT said on that point. It is not a matter of guesswork. The IMT for ten months had been hearing testimony and their deliberation was made, and this is the conclusion: "The SS played a particularly significant roll in the persecution of the Jews. The SS was directly involved in the demonstrations of November 10, 1938; the evacuation of Jews from occupied territories was carried out under the direction of the SS, with the assistance of the SS Police Units. The extermination of the Jews was carried out under the direction of the SS Central Organization," and so on for two pages the IMT enumerates what the SS did before and during the war. I call that to your attention only so that you may clarify in your mind what the IMT did and what their conclusions were regarding the SS criminal activities.
A Yes, Your Honor.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q Witness, after you heard Himmler's speech in Posen, you had no doubt that the policy of the Reich and the policy of the SS were committed to the extermination of the Jews, did you?
A Yes, quite.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Was that in '42 or '43?
MR. ROBBINS: '43; Your Honor, October.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q You say you did not have any doubt?
A It was in October 1943 when I heard Himmler's speech at Posen and I heard it as Chief of the Administration of the Police.
Q And at that time it became clear to you that the policy of the Reich was the extermination of the Jews? I did not quite get your answer?
A No doubt could be possible anymore after that. As a man of thinking faculties I had to deduce from Himmler's speech what he wanted to say.
Q Is that the first time you heard about this, his policy?
A Yes.
Q Is that the first time that you had heard that Jews had been killed in concentration camps?
A I heard for the first time there, that the German Reich had proclaimed an extermination program against the whole of Jewry, who had associated against Hitler.
Q That is not what I quite asked you. Had you heard prior to that time that Jews had been killed in concentration camps?
A No.
Q Had you heard they had died in concentration camps on a large scale?
A No, that people died in concentration camps was clear to me, but not clear in the sense that they would be worked to death, or killed there.
Q You did not know that the death rate was abnormal or alarmingly high in the concentration camps?
A I never formed any figures on the number of people killed there.
Q No, that is not an answer to my question. You did not know that the death rate in concentration camps prior to October 1943 was alarmingly high, abnormally high?
A No.
Q Were any of the other defendants in the dock at the speech at Posen, so far as you know?
A I don't believe so.
Q You know that Pohl was there? You heard him say that?
A Yes, Pohl, yes, of course, that is quite clear. Of course I expected Pohl to be there.
Q We were just speaking about clothes there at Lublin. Could you tell what happened to the clothes after they came under your supervision; what was the ultimate disposition of this clothing?
A I am sorry, I don't understand the question. Do you mean the clothing which had been manufactured?
Q We are talking about the - -
A The underwear, and -- ?
Q Yes, the clothing we were just speaking about from the clothing treasury in Lublin?
A I would like to state that the clothing was paid for by the clothing treasury; the clothing treasury had no interest in sending underwear, shirts, and so forth from Lublin without paying for them, because the officers paid for the underwear which they received and I am not informed who received the money after that.
Q The officers paid whom?
A The clothing treasury where they bought their things.
Q And the ultimate disposition of the clothing was to the SS officers, is that right?
A I think I ought to describe this again briefly. In the whole of Germany, and in the occupied territories -
Q Excuse me.
A - - we had the so-called treasury -
Q You talked about this in great detail yesterday. It is not just clear to me who ultimately received the clothing. You can give a very brief answer to that. Was that the SS Officers?
A Yes, the SS Officers they got it from the clothing treasury, paid the clothing treasury, and the clothing treasury would pay for the clothing received from the textile works in Lublin.
Q Now Globocnik had no authority over you, did he?
A Who?
Q Globocnik?
A Over me, No, he had no authority.
Q He could not give you an order, could he?
A No, Globocnik could not.
Q You knew Globocnik quite well? Did you not?
A Fairly well. I knew him as well as any other higher SS officer.
Q You visited him in the East, didn't you?
A Yes, I visited him. I said so already yesterday.
Q When was that?
A. In 1942 as I remember right, sir. It must have been about May or June.
I think it must have been on the occasion of my big trip to Poland.
Q Was that the only time you visited him?
A I am not quite sure. I went to Poland once a year, because I visited the units in the occupied territories, so, therefore, it is quite possible I saw him again, but I am really not quite sure.
Q When you visited Globocnik did you talk to him about "Action Reinhardt"?
A No, not in that sense, but what I discussed with him at that time in 1942 is that he should look after the SS affairs, because he had an enormous influence on all the things there, particularly on the whole economy in that district. He complied with my wish. He built barracks there, and he even offered to furnish shirts and underwear. As far as I know he looked after the things fairly well. I never discussed the extermination of people with Globocnik. There was no occasion for me to do so.
Q Nor did you discuss with him the utilization or use of the goods and loot that was taken from the Jewish people in the Ghetto's?
A No, that I discussed only with Wippern, who once came and told me.
Q Did he tell you at that time they were carrying out a policy of confiscating valuables from the Jews in the Ghetto?
A Yes.
Q Did he also tell you that it would be your task to regulate the receipt of these goods, and to see that these valuables reached the proper authorities?
A Yes. May I state here that Wippern's visit took place much later.
Q Did you ever receive correspondence from Globocnik concerning the utilization of these valuables other than that one letter you told about, which was in September 1943?
A I am not able to say. It is possible that Globocnik in some way or other wrote to me, but I don't recollect what. I am not able to say anything about that.
Q You did not exclude the possibility that happened?
A It is quite possible. He wrote me in some form or another. It is quite possible but I don't recollect that affair any more today. Why, it is as I said a long time ago, and the impressions I got at that time were so enormous, particularly in the Winter from '42 to '43, with the Stalingrad Front collapsing as we were all extremely excited and nervous, and kept going day and night, to and from, always in a pressing way so enormous that everything else receded in one's mind.
Q. Did you see any of the final reports by Globocnik after the clean-up action had taken place?
A. No.
Q. Did you see any of the reports by Stroop after the clean-up of the Warsaw ghetto had taken place?
A. No.
Q. Did you hear about them?
A. At that time I was with the police, and a police officer in the officers' mess told me one evening about this action. That must have been about the middle of September.
Q. '43?
A. Yes, 1943, which was the first time that I heard more details about this action.
Q. Now, you told us that you knew that the spectacles and the gold teeth that you received from Lublin and from the East had come from deceased concentration camp inmates, is that right?
A. Yes, that is what I had to assume.
Q. And you also said that if you had seen any of the figures, any of the amounts, at that time you would have had to conclude that these spectacles and gold came from inmates who had met a violent death, is that right?
A. Had I seen these reports afterwards, I would have had to reach that conclusion -- had I seen those figures which are contained in Globocnik's report.
Q. Do you maintain today that during that period of time while Action Reinhardt was taking place and around the month of September 1942 when you issued your order, which we have discussed at length - NO 724 do you maintain that you saw no figures, no totals, no amounts, as to the amount of goods that were reaching you?
A. I cannot recollect any such thing.
Q. Well, if you had seen figures, would you be able to recollect today? This must have made a--
A. It is possible.
Q. I should think that you would. That is the conclusion from your statement -- that if you had seen any of these statements, you would have been forced to the conclusion that they came from people who had met a violent death, and that certainly would have made an impression on you. Now, I want you to search your memory and tell us whether or not you saw any figures which indicated that a tremendous number of spectacles or amounts of gold came from the East through these actions.
A. I have asked myself that question. I do not reach any conclusion. I simply do not know if I saw it or not. I am inclined to think that I did not.
Q. I would like to show you a letter that you wrote about that time which I think will help your memory in that respect. This is Document NO 2305, and I offer it as Prosecution Exhibit 550 for identification. This is your letter to Himmler, 8 October 1942:
"Dear Reichsfuehrer: The pieces of gold from the teeth of deceased prisoners will be delivered to the Medical Office in accordance with your order. They will be used there for dental treatment of our men.
"SS Oberfuehrer Blaschke already has a stock of over 50 kg. of gold; that is the anticipated precious metal requirement for the next five years. For reasons of security, as well as in the interests of utilization, I do not consider it feasible to collect more gold for this purpose.
"I request your confirmation that pieces of gold removed from the teeth and supplied in the normal way by the concentration camps may in future be delivered to the Reichsbank against acknowledgment."
You wrote this letter, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. You had no doubt after you discovered that the SS had taken enough gold to last themselves for five years from the concentration camps that this tremendous figure, this amount of gold which would amount to more than 100 pounds, came from inmates who had met a violent death?
A. Do you believe, sir, that it is possible to collect 50 kilos of gold from gold teeth?
Q. I'm asking you that. That is clearly indicated by your letter.
A. That is not true, sir. In these documents I saw a few documents from which I deduced that the gold teeth from inmates amounted to 0.5 g., an extremely small quantity. Therefore, hundreds and thousands of other gold must have been received, quite apart from the fact that in my opinion only every fifth man or every tenth man has any gold teeth in his mouth and that it amounts to only a few grams. How would it be possible for me to assume that four weeks after the decree signed by me a quantity of 50 kilos would be received from gold teeth alone? Millions of people would have had to be exterminated for that purpose in order to get 50 kilos of gold.
Q. General, you have seen in evidence in this case an admission by Rudolf Hoess that he himself killed 3,000,000 people in the East. You're right, it would have taken 3,000,000 people to supply this much gold, but millions of people were killed.
A. But, sir, I might say here that at the time I wrote this letter, in October 1942, that cannot have happened. Even according to the documents, it becomes clear that the extermination of Jews lasted for four years. Whether in 1942 Jews were being exterminated at all or to what extent, I do not know, but I would beg of you to consider that 50 kilos of gold came from gold coins and from uncoined gold, but never could 50 kilos of gold come from gold teeth, which amounts to a few grams. At this speed I am unable to figure out how many grams would be needed for a hundred pounds of gold to arrive at that fantastic figure. How could it be possible, four weeks after this decree, to say that 50 kilos from gold teeth alone had been delivered?
Q. Witness, you are not going to tell us that the SS had its own gold mine, are you? You don't deny that at least a great part of this came from pieces of gold from the teeth of deceased prisoners? You talk about that in your letter.
A. The point of this letter was, and I assume its history is this: Dental treatment in concentration camps and in SS dental stations required a certain amount of gold, which we did not have. Therefore, I was probably given the order to contact the highest dental officer of the SS and supply him with a certain amount of gold -- not I, myself, but some other agency. Now, after Blaschke, who was the supreme dental officer of the SS, had received a total of 50 kilos, in October 1942 according to my letter, I reported to the Reichsfuehrer that Blaschke already had a stock of more than 50 kilos and that, as I say in paragraph three, for reasons of security I did not consider it feasible to collect more gold because the leading dental officer already had a quantity of 50 kilos of gold. I did this for reasons of security, because after all it is a highly valuable possession, and if he had a sufficient supply for the next five years - which incidentally was also put at the disposal of the inmates - for that reason I wrote to the Reichsfuehrer that I did not consider it necessary to transfer the gold from concentration camps to Blaschke but that it should go to the Reichsbank. However, I must emphatically oppose the fact that I should be charged with knowledge or the assumption that the 50 kilos were gold from the mouths of deceased prisoners. That is quite impossible. You could figure it out. We have a dentist here in the court who could confirm this, how many grams could be taken from one dead inmate. I read in the documents 0.8, 1.2, 1.5 grams, so that for one kilo thousands of deceased persons with gold teeth would be required.
THE PRESIDENT: I think you will have to concede, Mr. Robbins, that 50 kilograms, over 50 kilograms, which is about 110.2 pounds, is a lot of gold to have been accumulated by October 1942 from oral sources alone.
MR. ROBBINS: It certainly is a lot of gold.
THE PRESIDENT: Because the extermination program was far from its height at that time. It was going good, but I mean it had not reached its maximum at that time.
MR. ROBBINS: Well, at that time millions of people had already been killed in the concentration camps. I am not concerned with whether or not all this gold came from deceased inmates, but the letter itself, and I would like to ask the witness -
(By Mr. Robbins) The letter itself shows that a part of this gold came from the mouths of deceased inmates?
THE PRESIDENT: That is right.
A Even that, I wish to dispute for the following reasons. Technically speaking it would have been much simpler to have the gold as gold, as pure gold or coining gold, and give it to Blaschke, rather than have a few grams here and there or gather the teeth in bags and to send these bags full of teeth to Blaschke. I have read in the trial that the Reichsbank itself has stated that it, the Reichsbank, changed the gold teeth in the official exchequer in 1943, or from 1943 onward, and only that changed gold was of any interest to Blaschke. What was he to do with a few individual teeth? Was he to change it? Fifth kilos of golden teeth, very, very thin plates, would have been a most enormous bag.
Q I would like to ask you that question. You say in your letter to Himmler that, "I hope the gold from teeth of deceased prisoners will be delivered to the medical office." You tell us what they were doing with it. It is the first sentence in your letter.
A Well, from there it was delivered to the medical office, which is confirmed by all letters in the document book.
Q Why did they do it; why did they do it? Did they just leave it lying around?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, he answers in the second sentence of the first paragraph.
MR. ROBBINS: I think that is perfectly clear.
Q (By Mr. Robbins) Now, Witness, when you saw that the SS had a stock of fifty kilograms of gold and undoubtedly a part of this came from the teeth of deceased inmates, weren't you curious to find out what proportion of this tremendous amount of gold came from inmates; didn't you make any inquiry about that at all?
A In these documents, sir, the books clearly show that from 1939 onward gold from teeth was taken out of the mouths of state inmates, and that gold was to be delivered to the medical office. There is, therefore, no doubt that among these fifty kilos, one, two or three kilos really were gold teeth, of which I have no doubt at all, but all this came from inmates who had died.
Q One, two or three kilos, that is all you had any notion of, one or two or three kilos?
A Within the period of four years, yes. You said before that in 1942 million had been exterminated already. That, sir, is not my impression from the document in 1942.
THE PRESIDENT: Let's not argue any more about this point. I think it is clear what the witness wishes to say.
Q (By Mr. Robbins) Witness, I would like to show you another document and ask you if this is your signature. This is Document NO-2751, and I will mark it as Exhibit 551 for identification.
A May I comment on this?
Q Yes. Wait until the Tribunal gets its copy if you will. May I ask that you don't tell us anything that you have already told us? In other words, don't repeat your previous testimony that you knew nothing about the source of these watches, because that is already in the record and this letter just supplements your other reports of the watches and fountain pens. If you have anything new to add, go right ahead.
A I have never denied, sir, that I wrote the letter about the watches to the Reichsfuehrer. The letter now put before me is a letter written to remind the Reichsfuehrer of my previous letter written, I believe, in May, 1943. It must have been drawn up in my last days in the WVHA and was given to me on 2 September for my signature. Brandt himself said in his letter which you put to Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl as an additional document, he refers to this letter and he says, "I ask Frank to send me a copy." This is the additional letter to it. I fully acknowledge the letter; I wrote it. I never left any doubt that I know that in Oranienburg there were a very large number of watches.