Q. And before?
A. Promotions before had nothing to do with this. I only served in the SS Special Task Group.
Q. The entry date into the Waffen SS therefore was 1 April 1938, was it not, or is it correct to assume that it was an earlier date than that?
A. The date remains 1 October 1936 because we must include the time when my position was not listed in the budget, Otherwise, I would have been at a disadvantage, because my income as Civil Servant had already been much higher than that of an Obersturmfuehrer.
Q. This was an retroactive promotion?
A. We can call it that. On 1 October 1936 I was given a special promotion to Obersturmfuehrer because there was no position provided by the budget. However, I continued to receive the salary of an Inspector.
Q. During your cross examination you said that the files of your office had to be destroyed and you have already hinted that this had happened for official reasons -- was this destruction of files ordered in the Document Classification Code?
A. Yes. It had been agreed with the auditing court that all the files which dealt with the auditing court, except the cash books, could be destroyed. The cash books had to remain and had to be kept for ten years.
THE PRESIDENT: Does the witness mean that the files were destroyed in the regular course of business or were they destroyed to prevent capture?
A That was the normal office procedure: that had nothing to do with the enemy. I had left quite a number of files which I gave to the hospital at Hohenlychen; those files which were destroyed could only be destroyed with the approval of the Auditing Court.
Q Do you mean it was customary to destroy all old papers ever so often after they were no longer of use?
AAccording to the regulations that was customary and we were forced to do so because there was no room to keep them, but only as far as the Auditing Court approved of it.
Q. It had nothing to do with the approach of the enemy?
A No. It had nothing to do with it.
BY DR. SCHMIDT:
Q This destruction of files took place before the year 1945?
A Yes.
Q And it normally happened even earlier than that?
A Yes, from fiscal year to fiscal year the material which already had been dealt with by the auditing court was destroyed, but the cash books had to be kept.
Q Witness, the Prosecution asked you whether it was a part of your routine work to give information to the other departments of the WVHA, about the economic position of the various agencies rendering their accounts. Did your office ever compile such a report to other offices, or did you lend these files to other departments?
A No, never.
Q For such an action, would it not have been necessary that the Auditing Court should know about these matters, and that it should give its approval?
A No, I don't think so, but I can not imagine what reports they could have been.
Q Witness, would it have been possible for you at all from the bills which were submitted to you to exactly see the situation as far as the balance of the treasuries went and to form a judgment?
A The whole accounting system was not an economic department, or a commercial enterprise but the treasures were just offices where income and expenses were examined, but with the economy or the balance of other commercial matters this treasury had nothing to do.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Dr. Schmidt, you are surely not going to go into this entire subject of his duties and his activities, are you?
DR. SCHMIDT: I could not understand the translation, I am afraid. Please repeat the question.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: The purpose of your examining the witness at present is merely to clarify anything which may have arisen in cross examination and I don't suppose that you intend to re-examine him on matters which you have so thoroughly covered in your direct examination?
DR. SCHMIDT: No, Your Honor. It is not my intention to repeat myself, I only felt that during the cross examination this point was not clarified sufficiently, and, therefore, I asked these questions.
Q Witness, you said or at least I understood you to say, that after the examination at Lublin and during the time of your staying there, you thought that this foreign currency and jewelry and valuables could be the property of Jews who came from the Warsaw ghetto, and in this connection you mentioned the fact that through newspaper reports, it had become generally known that in Warsaw bloody actions had taken place. Do you know, witness, in giving us this information, that in Warsaw two actions of that kind took place - one which we have heard from in the document book of the Prosecution, Document Book XX, a heart-rending document. And another action which had nothing to do directly with the first action, and which took place very much later. The actions concerning the Warsaw ghetto, and about which a number of reports of the SS and Police Leader Stroop have been submitted, this action had taken place already in the year 1943, in April or May, according to these documents at least. The other action of which I am talking now took place, as far as I know, a whole year later -- during the year 1944. Which action are you talking about when you speak about the Warsaw actions which you referred to in Connection with the valuables and foreign currency at Lublin?
A I am not informed about the actions in Warsaw. I have read in these document books of the ghettos. However the ghetto at Lublin was also dissolved and these objects may have come from there; I couldn't know; I have seen no more information about this; whether some Jews were killed in Warsaw, I do not know, and whether any were killed in Lublin was also not made known to me. I don't know whether the action in Warsaw in 1942 was known or another action.
Q Is it known to you, witness, that the papers in Germany at that time gave reports about the action at Warsaw which was called " armed riots in Warsaw", and "armed combat by the police and units of the army"; and that this action which was reported by the newspapers took place only in 1944?
MR. ROBBINS: If Dr. Schmidt is going into this, he should let the witness give his own explanation and not make long speeches to the witness and then ask him - is it what you understood. They are extremely leading questions.
THE PRESIDENT: You see, Dr. Schmidt, you practically read the newspaper to him in your question.
DR. SCHMIDT: I only wanted to ask the witness which action he means. when, as I understood him from the cross examination, he says that he had assumed at the time that these valuables and foreign currency in Lublin came from Jews from the Warsaw ghetto.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you think -
DR. SCHMIDT: If Your Honor please, the witness then said that he had assumed it from the newspaper reports which were given about the riots and combat in Warsaw. These are two different matters which the witness has confused and I want to clarify it.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you think it is very important?
DR. SCHMIDT: I think so, Your Honor, because what the witness can have taken from newspaper reports that could only have been in the course of 1944, but certainly not in 1943, when he dealt with the auditing in Lublin.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you mean the events that he read about in the newspapers occurred after he came back from Lublin?
DR. SCHMIDT: According to my knowledge it was towards the end of 1944 that this riot in Warsaw took place, when the Russian front had come close to the Polish capital. The witness can only have connected this affair with the Warsaw affair after it was published in the newspapers.
MR. ROBBINS: Now that the witness has been told what he reads, it seem to me the simplest, the most direct way to get at the answer would be to ask him when and what did he read. That would have been the simplest thing in the first place, without telling him what he reads.
BY DR. SCHMIDT:
Q Witness, it is interesting - it would be interesting to hear from you - have you read in the papers about the Warsaw uprising, and when was it according to your memory; and what did you read.
A When it was, I can not remember today; and what it said in the papers I can not remember either.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Haensel, you know the Shakesperian play, "Much to do About Nothing?"
BY DR. SCHMIDT:
Q Witness, during the cross examination an affidavit was shown to you of the former SS Judge Morgen, and in this affidavit you are being connected with Illegal dealings on the black market. Can you say anything to that; how is it possible that Dr. Morgen Connected you with black market activities at all?
A I would like to know myself: how come this man Morgen connects me with the black market. I never had any dealings with the black market. When I was in foreign countries, that was about three or four times, and for my personal use during my travels I bought myself some things, then I bought them at the proper place at the economic office of the army, and at the normal PX price, and with the money provided for my journey.
But on the black market I never bought a thing. I had no foreign currency anyway.
Q During these journeys to foreign countries, did you make big purchases in these canteens or were they small matters?
A They were small matters for the journey or to bring back for somebody some cigarets perhaps or tobacco or chocolate, but never a suitcase, or something of that sort. I had no money. I would have liked to buy things.
Q Witness, in your official capacity were cases of corruption within the SS ever made known to you?
A My office did not deal with criminal investigations. There was a special committee dealing with corruption which had been founded for that purpose. My office could only act when the regular SS Court made the application for the auditing office to carry out an audit in this or that matter. The criminal aspect of it, was not my task. During my whole activity only once I was asked to carry out an audit of that nature. That was at the beginning of the war when the SS and Police Court in Cracow asked me to send an auditor in the matter of Obersturmbannfuehrer Leckebusch. This auditor later on became the collaborator of Morgen. That was the only time that the SS Court needed my services in furnishing an auditor, but an auditing just because some judge or a prosecutor or we ourselves were interested, that did not happen.
I had nothing to do with any legal procedures of any kind.
Q Witness, how do you account for Dr. Morgen, after you have given this explanation of your activities as to cases of corruption, how is it then that Dr. Morgen can state a matter of that nature against you? Did you have any arguments with Dr. Morgen of any kind?
A Never, I do not understand the whole matter. Morgen is apparently not well-acquainted with my tasks. otherwise he could not make a statement of that nature which I can only call a libelous statement. I have not seen Morgen since that discussion about a witness. I have never seen him since. He was the judge there. I only heard later on that he and Steinberg, who was then an auditor had been appointed to the corruption committee and were auditing in Buchenwald.
DR. SCHMIDT: I have no further questions, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Any further questions from defense counsel? Apparently not. Dr. Robbins, have you anything more?
MR. ROBBINS: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: This witness may be taken from the witness box to the dock.
DR. SCHMIDT: Your Honor, with this, for the time being my presentation of evidence has been concluded.
THE PRESIDENT: Next witness.
DR. HAENSEL: I would ask you, your Honor, to now deal with the case of Georg Loerner and I call the defendant Georg Loerner as a witness on his own behalf.
GEORG LOERNER, defendant, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Will you please raise your right hand and repeat after me? I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(Witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE MUSMANNO: You may be seated.
DR. HAENSEL: The questions which I want to ask the witness, Georg Loerner, are three fold. The first part is: Who are you? - how did you live? The Second part is - what did you do? And the Third part is: -What have you not done. This trinity occurred to me when I think of the old dogmatism about the contritio, the confessio and the satisfactio. Contritio has been translated by Martin Luther and is called Zerknirschung in German. That began with the surrender. The confessio is the matter itself and it will be dealt with during the next days, and a satisfactio is, according to Luther's translation, a purification.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. HAENSEL:
Q Count 1. Georg Loerner, give us your full name and the date of your birth.
A My name is Georg Loerner, and I was born on the 17th cf February 1899 in Munich.
Q Could you tell the Court something about your parents?
A by parents were good bourgeois. My father had a smith, a locksmith shop, a large locksmith shop. We were six children and this locksmith shop supported us quite Well.
Q And the first misery of your life was the death of your father, was it not? When was that?
A My father died on the 21st of February, 1910.
Q How old were you at that time?
A I was eleven.
Q And what did you do?
A I was a pupil in the fifth class of the elementary school, and I was just about to go to the secondary school.
Q What influence did the death of your father have on you, and on your whole family, and on your further life?
A The death of my father hampered the development of our life and our finances deteriorated, and the family had to live in lower circumstances. Then the planned studies of my brother and my own studies could no longer be carried out and therefore, I left after the sixth year the secondary school. In 1916 I entered the bank house of Sinn and Company.
Q Herr Loerner, Sinn and Company, was that banking house a Jewish firm?
A Yes.
Q You had no doubts about entering a Jewish firm?
A No.
Q How was it during the first World War? What influence did that have on you?
A In June 1917 I was drafted into the infantry. After the normal basic training and after finishing the rifle course and the heavy machine gun training in January or February 1918 I came to the front, the western front.
There I took part in the fight, hard fighting, and on 10 July 1918, two days before I was to enter an officers' training course, during combat near Reims I was wounded.
Q Did this wound have any effect on your physical welfare?
A Yes. In 1918 I was retired as a veteran with an 80% disability and my heart had been seriously damaged.
Q What did you do after the war?
AAfter the war I began studies at the commercial training school for economy from 1919 until 1921. In 1921 I passed my examinations and became a certified merchant, a Diplom Kaufmann, merchant with a diploma. At the same time I entered the Munich branch of the Commerz and Privatbank, the Commerce and Private Bank, and on the 21st of January 1923 I entered the enterprise of my brother as commercial manager.
Q Is that your brother, Hans, who is also one of the defendants?
A Yes, my third brother, Peter, died already in 1901.
Q How as your collaboration generally?
A It was generally very good. We understood each other well and for this reason we agreed that I should enter his firm.
Q What was the development of this firm?
A The firm, after the end of the inflation, had to be started again from the beginning. From that time, however, it developed satisfactorily, but of course, during the depression in the years 1928 and 1929 it was impeded, and through the bankruptcy of two large debtors in the spring of 1930, it had to be liquidated.
Q Did that happen often?
AAt that time it happened very often indeed.
Q What happened after this liquidation?
AAfter this I had no work at all, as my wound, my leg gave me considerable trouble and at this point I had to have an operation which was the tenth operation. The Chief of the Surgical Clinic in Munich, Geheimrat Lechser, operated on me himself and he succeeded in making my leg flexible again.
Q.- In this time of your involuntary leisure did you come to think about political questions? Were you a member of any Party at all?
A.- Yes. In 1928 I joined the Bayerische Volkspartei, the Bavarian People's Party. In 1931 I left the Party and on the 1st of November 1931, I joined the National Socialist Party.
Q.- Did you at that time also join the SS?
A.- Yes, I did. Inspite of my efforts, I could not find a jog. Then, in June 1932, a friend of mine, Max Humbs, who had a full-time job with the SS, came to me and offered me a job in the department of the Office I-1. I accepted this offer gladly. At that time, I had heard or seen hardly anything of the SS. During this activity I became acquainted with the ideals and the aims of the SS. I became very enthusiastic about them, and I applied for membership in the SS which was not very easy at that time, as I was limping, and the SS only accepted completely healthy people, but my application was accented, and approximately in November, 1932, I became a voluntary member of the SS.
Q.- At that time were you an enthusiast in military matters, the aims of warfare?
A.- No, I was never a militarist, since I had been into war and sustained a series of wounds and I had enough of it. I was mainly interested in the construction work from nothing.
Q.- Did you have any hobbies?
A.- Before my wound I was an active sportsman. I indulged in quite a number of sports, and I achieved quite good results, too, but through my wound this field did not exist any longer for me. However, I had a great love for nature and plants, and I used all my spare time to climb mountains.
Q.- What was your attitude toward women: were you married?
A.- I married late when I was forty. That was on the last day of peace, the 31st bf August, 1939.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Is there an association between the fact that was the last day of peace and his getting married?
DR. HAENSEL: Yes, indeed. The effects of a marriage are difficult to judge, Your Honor.
BY DR, HAENSEL:
Q.- Well, then let's now leave your curriculum vitae for the time and let us turn to your field of work. Tell the Tribunal briefly what positions you held before 1939.
A.- In May, 1933, I was transferred to the Administration Office of the SS. I was employed first in the FM department, In December, 1939, I received from my chief, Oberfuehrer Schneider, the order to open a clothing department.
Q.- Were you transferred then into the Special Task Troops?
A.- Yes, On the 1st of Aprils, 1936, I was officially transferred to the Special Task Troops as Obersturmfuehrer. I signed the contract in which I pledged myself to serve the Reich until I was 45 years of age.
Q.- Were you an active leader of a Sturm, or what did you do in the Special Task Troops?
A.- As I said, before, I was only active in the Administration.
Q.- What did this task consist of, administration of the Death Head Units?
A.- Yes.
Q.- What else?
A.- Clothing. First of all was clothing for the Special Task Troops which had to be supplied and put at their disposal, and from 1936 an additional task to clothing of the Death Head Units was the clothing of the inmates of the concentration camps.
Q.- Witness, you say that you dealt with clothing in addition to the Death Head Units also for the inmates of the concentration camps. Do we have to understand by that you supplied it to every individual inmate, or how was it?
A.- No. The Inspectorate of the concentration camps sent us its report yearly, or every half year. These supplies were bought and put at the disposal of the concentration camps. The individual camps were responsible for the clothing of the individual inmates.
Q.- We have now arrived at the beginning of 1939. What change did this year bring about in the event of war? What change did it bring about for you?
A.- In May, 1939, I was transferred to Berlin, and I was put in charge of Office I of Budget and Construction.
Q.- Could you tell us in order to clarify this how this Office SS Budget and Construction was organized?
A.- The Office Budget and Construction consisted of two departments : 1 was Budget, and the other, 2, was Construction.
Q.- That is where the strange name is derived from. Was Office I-1 subordinated to you?
A.- Yes, I was its chief.
Q.- And the Main Office, Office I within this Main Office, now did that have a number of departments within itself?
A.- Yes.
Q.- Could you tell us something about the main departments in order first to understand the organization of the office, the SS Main Office Budget and Construction.
A.- Office I consisted originally of four main departments, first I-1 Budget, which dealt with the Reich Budget. At that time the budget in 1939/40 had been finished. Four months later the war started. At the beginning of the war the so-called "Open War Budget" came into force about which we have heard so much here. Budget negotiations did not take place at that time. The preliminary auditing department which was mentioned today by Vogt had the only task to carry out the preliminary audits of this office, as for instance clothing stocks and so on. The preliminary auditing of the Waffen SS was carried out in the admi nistrative office of the Waffen SS at the operational Main Office, and the preliminary audit of concentration camps was carried out in the Administrative Office of the Inspectorate of the Concentration Camps.
Q.- That was I-1, was it?
A.- The next department was I-2 which only dealt with legal matters and purchases of property. I-3, Clothing had the same task as the main department of the Administrative Office SS. The next department was I-4 Accommodations and Billeting which had to deal with the furnishing of billeting and equipment.
In Spring, 1940, Himmler ordered two new main departments to be established which were made Department I-5, Allocation of Labor, which I shall talk about later, and Main Department I-6, Food.
DR. HAENSEL: May I suggest, Your Honor, of these departments which we have heard about, Food and Clothing we shall have to deal with later, and we shall hear much about the Main Offices. We have only to speak about I-5 which is Allocation of Labor, but I do suggest that tomorrow morning we shall start with new energy, and I should suggest that we now would finish with the general subject, be shall then start tomorrow morning with the subject I-5, Allocation of Labor, or would Your Honors like to proceed now?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, wit the utmost reluctance, we will recess now.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess until nine-thirty tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 18 June 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Oswald Pohl, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 18 June 1947, 0940-1630, Justice Robert M. Toms presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Take your seats, please. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II. Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the Court.
GEORG LOERNER - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
DR. HAENSEL (ATTORNEY FOR GEORG LOERNER): May I please continue with the direct examination of Georg Loerner?
BY DR. HAENSEL:
Q: Last night we stopped in the Year of 1940 when we were discussing the MainOffice, Budget and Building. Herr Loerner, I would like to ask you, how did the Main Department 1/5 fall within your field of tasks? I shall show you a chart which the prosecution have submitted as NO-1711, Exhibit 34, in Document Book II. It's on page II of the English Book and 25 in German; Volume II, page 11.
A: Main Department 1/5 came into the Main Office, Budget and Building, on Himmler's orders. The reasons for this are not known to me, but I assume that Himmler wanted thereby to improve the organization of labor allocation.
Q: From when until when did this Main Department 1/5 exist?
A: With best intentions I am unable to give you the precise date. It happened seven years ago. What I do know is this: When this Main Department was being built up a lot of time was spent because at that time the Waffen-SS was being organized and personnel was short. The Main Department was set up mainly in the months of August to December, 1940. It was lead first of all by one man called Sturmbannfuehrer Leckebusch, who left soon afterwards and was replaced by Hauptsturmfuehrer Burboeck. From the beginning I was opposed to taking over this task.
My reasons were:
1. This task did not fit in with our purely administrative task in Office A in any way at all and I had no conception of these things.
2. At that period of time the Waffen-SS was being organized in a very speedy manner which took up a lot of my time in administrative matters. In a very short period of time we had to look after the clothing of five or six new divisions.
The food supply organization was also newly organized at that period of time and that caused me to take a large number of official trips from Berlin. When I tried to work myself into the administrative field which was alien to me before that time, it claimed much of my time, also. And then from the beginning I disliked the work connected with concentration camps. I told Pohl all these reasons at the time and he agreed that I should make an arrangement with Gluecks to have him be in charge unofficially of labor allocation of inmates and that was done no until such a time as we received Himmler's permission for an official transfer. Gluecks, who was highly indignant at that time that he had not been put in charge, grasped this opportunity with both hands and said he was quite happy to take over the task. Burboeck was given an office in Oranienburg and did his work there with Gluecks. He came to see me every four or six weeks to report to me and his main topic was always his personal worries. The work of building up -I should add here first, the official transfer of Department 1/5 to the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps was effected after Himmler's permission, I believe, in September 1941. The building up of this Main Department was done only in the autumn of 1940, which becomes clear from an affidavit submitted by the prosecution of a man called Grimm.
Q: I would like to ask you, Herr Loerner to look at the chart which the Tribunal has in its hands too and please pay attention to Office 1/5 which is in the right corner at the bottom and tell the court what task this Office 1/5 had, according to the chart.
A: I should say a word here about one way these organizational charts where drawn up. Department Chiefs and Main Department Chiefs at that time had these little organizational squares which they filled with as many tasks as possible in order to thereby demonstrate the importance of their tasks and show how indispensable they were. If today I see on this plan under "Special Tasks" "Breeding of Rabbits" I am inclined to smile a little. The few hundred rabbits which we had at that time were certainly not worthwhile to have a special square on the organizational chart. This breeding of rabbits was based on a Goering order which he had issued from the four year plan that all units of the armed forces on the barracks squares and so forth had to breed rabbits in order to meet the demand for raw materials for the clothing of the Luftwaffe.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Haensel, you called the witness' attention to Office 1/5.
DR. HAENSEL: 1/5. Why do you ask?
THE PRESIDENT: Then you said it was in the lower right corner of the chart.
DR. HAENSEL: Right, right.
INTERPRETER: It is a different chart.
The chart is now in the Tribunal's hands. You spoke about 1/5, and we heard what field of tasks were part of 1/5. You also mentioned Philipp Grimm. Philipp Grimm turns up in Volume 11 page 24 of the German version and on page 11 of the English text. Volume, 11, page 11, NO-2126. From that document which is an affidavit by Philipp Grimm, I put this to you, witness: Philipp Grimm describes how he in 1940 joined the SS Main Office Budget and Building, Department 1/5 and he reported to Georg Loerner in Berlin. He went from Berlin to Flossenbuerg and he says there and I quote:
"Meanwhile I was to work in the Main Office, Budget and Building, Department 1/5. The Chief of that office at that time was Sturmbannfuehrer Leckebusch. As far as I know, the agency Main Office 1/5 at that time was just being organized and it was impossible to look at once into matters. Therefore, I went to Weimar-Buchenwald and took up my duties on i October 1940. In Buchenwald I found nothing at all which had anything to do with labor allocation. There were many reports that there was no plan. Work was done in a haphazard manner and this was confirmed to me all the more when I reported to Standartenfuehrer Koch who was then the commandant and that was a superior who was highly jealous. His welcoming words were: "Don't think that because you came from Berlin you can create a muddle here and you have to observe my orders very strictly and carry them out."
That was Grimm. What was your impression of the labor allocation as it was done by your office at that time?
Q That work at that time practically was nothing at all. At the time I estimate that the figure of inmates amounted to about 25,000 men, a total of 25,000 men in the camps. The majority of those inmates were busy building up the camps and were working in some work shops which belonged to the camps so that a real labor allocation was not in effect at that moment.
Q Have you any conception whether among those roughly 20,000 inmates in concentration camps in 1940 there were any foreigners among them or were they only people who were either Germans or who lived in Germany?
AAt that time it was my opinion and I believe that corresponded to the fact and has been charged meanwhile that at that time there were in the camps only Germans who somehow or other had something on their conscience. They had committed some offense, either in the criminal sense or because they were opposed to the State in the political sense. It was my idea that those inmates in concentration camps had been committed there in the place of a normal judicial procedure. In any case at that time there were no foreign inmates in the concentration camps.
Q Do you still recall when Sauckel became the Chief of labor allocation? When was that?
A Well we heard about this quite often. I think it must have been roughly in March 1942.
Q A year later, in other words?
A Yes.
Q Do you happen to remember that in the IMT Trial the Sauckel complex was an important one?
A I heard about that, yes.
Q I am now referring to the verdict of the IMT, one about the Sauckel question and also Chapter 7, concerning slave labor. The documents shown there proved beyond doubt that the influx of foreign workers started only in 1942, perhaps in 1941, after the Russian campaign -- in any case in that period of time before the opening of the Russian campaign. Grimm has also signed another affidavit which the prosecution submitted and I will now give you an opportunity to comment on this question. In Document Book 16, page 20, of the German text, it is Exhibit 429, NO-1972, Document Book 16, page 20 of the German text. I do not know the English page. This is a report by Grimm.
THE PRESIDENT: Wait until we find the book, please.
DR. HAENSEL: 16.
THE PRESIDENT: What exhibit, please?
DR. HAENSEL: Exhibit 429. It is not signed, but it is by Grimm. The name "Grimm" does not appear on the document.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: We have one.
Q In that document, which is dated 21 May 1941, it says with reference to the above letters concerning concentration camps, Main Department 1/5, Department Buchenwald, requests a report about those inmates who are working on certain sites and thereby cannot be released immediately should a release be under consideration. Do you know that document and what to you wish to say?