Q In which part of Norway is the town of Polmak situated?
INTERPRETER SCHARF: Is the witness supposed to use the map?
MR. RAPP: Yes, if he can do so.
A Polmak is situated near the Finish frontier, that is the interior part of Finnmark.
BY MR. RAPP:
Q Thank you. Witness, what did you do before you became chief of police in Polmak?
A I was police sergeant-major in Vardoe.
Q Witness, where is the little town of Vardoe? You needn't point it out on the map.
A It is on the coast on the eastern part of Finnmark.
Q And how long were you there? Since when?
A I had taken up my position in Vardoe on the 15th of June 1935.
Q And witness, if I have understood you correctly, you left on the first of February 1945 pud went to Polmak from there, is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q During the time of the occupation were you in that little town of Vardoe?
A Yes, at that time I was in Vardoe.
Q Witness, what was your task as an inhabitant of the town of Vardoe during the time of the occupation? What did you do?
A I had to deal with criminal matters since I was a police official.
Q Witness, can you give us some more details briefly? It is a rather large concept, criminal matters.
A I had to deal with theft and violations of the law on the part of the civilian population.
Q Witness, was the town of Vardoe during the time you stayed there destroyed in connection with the war?
A When the Germans retreated, we calculated that between 80 to 85 per cent of the town had been destroyed.
Q When did the Germans withdraw, witness?
A They left Vardoe the first days of November 1944.
Q Was it the first time that you heard of a retreat or had seen a retreat?
A I was not in Vardoe at the time the retreat was taking place.
Q Where were you, witness?
A I was in Skajanes (spelling) S-k-j-a-n-e-s.
Q Would you like to point out to us now on the map, Vardoe and Skjanes?
A (Indicating) It is on the west side of the Tana Fjord.
Q How did you learn of the retreat in Skjanes?
A On the 30th of October 1944, I talked over the telephone with my mother-in-law. She is living in Finnkonckeila (spelling) F-i-n-nk-o-n-c-k-e-i-l-a. She told me that on the same day a. German detachment had. been in the town of Finnkonckeila, and I must add. here that no other German troops were in Finnkonckeila. These Germans told the population that the little town was to be burned and. that the population was to be evacuated in boats. The population had decided in the meantime not to go away. They did not want to evacuate the town, and they began at once to leave for the mountains. The Children's Home had been transferred to Finnkonckeila from Vardoe at some previous date, there were 23 children from the ages of 1 to 15 years, and we had 4 women looking after these children. My mother-in-law wanted to know whether I could possibly help to take these children from Finnkonckeila to a safer place, and I answered that I would do that. Eleven young men apart from myself accompanied me. They also were prepared to go to Finnkonckeila across the mountains in order to do that. At 6 o'clock in the morning on the 31st of October, we began our trip and went to Finnkonckeila. We arrived in Finnkonckeila at about 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon. The population had already tone into the mountains overlooking the village. A German detachment had arrived in Finnkonckeila in a motorboat and stayed near the village.
I saw that boxes of dynamite were taken from the boats to shore and also cans with gasoline.
I went down into the little town and one of my comrades accompanied me. It was my intention to obtain clothing which I had previously sent to the house of my mother-in-law, and so it happened that I struck up a conversation with the leader of this German detachment. It was a German lieutenant. I asked him whether it was true that this town was to be burned. He answered, "Yes, this place is to be blown up. This is not only to happen here, but in the whole of Finnmark." And he added that the population was to be sent to the south in small boats. I asked him then what would happen if the population should decide to go to the mountains. He answered that afterwards a detachment would arrive which has the task of fetching the population.
He said those who should refuse to come along would be arrested and would be taken into German captivity, and they would also risk being shot. We were told that we had to leave the place at once because the blowing up and burning down was to begin at once. We went back to the camp then which the people had in the mountains. The other ten who had been with me had begin to make preparations in order to take the children away with them over the rocks. At about half-past three in the afternoon, they began their detonations and the burning down of the houses. There were three fish processing factories, producing all kinds of fish products, these three installations were blown up as the first with dynamite. And the Germans went from house to house with their cans of gasoline. They went into the houses, remained there for a moment, then came out again, smashed the windows with the buts of their rifles, and a moment or two later the houses began to go up in flames. The procedure of the Germans was quite systematical, that is to say, they went from house to house.
I was sitting up above the village and looked at what was going on until about 5 o'clock in the afternoon. At five o'clock, the whole place which is situated in a gorge was a sea of flames. Two houses were some distance from the village, and those two houses were not in flames when I left. It is at that time we began our retreat to Skjanes with the children. We had a very strenuous trip with these children. The smallest had to be carried on our backs. The way back took us 18 hours. We arrived at Skjanes at 12 o'clock noon, on the 1st of November 1944.
The children were very badly dressed, only thin shoes, and they were badly equipped for such a trip. We lodged the children in the school building of Skjanes. In the evening of the same day, that is on the first of November 1944 at about 11 or 11:30 at night, a German landing craft arrived in Skjanes. A number of German soldiers and marines disembarked from this boat. The first thing they did was that they put fire to the warehouse in Skjanes.
Soldiers were posted around the village, and others went and told the population that they would have to be on the landing craft within, at the latest, one hour. The leader of this detachment was a German lieutenant. This officer went to the school building in which the children were, and he ordered that all these children should instantly be brought to the boat. The superintendent of these children's home came running to my house which is situated about three or four hundred yards from the school, and they asked me to try to intervene with the Germans so that the children would not have to be taken to the boat. I went along with them and talked to the lieutenant. He said that his order was that he was to collect these people and my objections and my pleas not to do this were of no interest to him. He said exactly the same regarding what was to happen as the lieutenant with whom I had talked in Finnkonkeila, and he also said that those who possibly remained behind would either be made prisoners of war of the Germans or could possibly also be shot on the spot. This conversation took place on the stairs outside of the school building in which the children were lodged.
It was night and the children were in their beds, and the officer ordered that his soldiers should at once start taking the children to the ship. I saw that the children were taken out of their beds without any opportunity of putting on clothes, and they were taken to the ship as they were without any further ado. The bigger children were usually successful in putting on some of their clothes, and they were also taken to the ship. I then saw that I could do nothing here. I left this house and went back to the house in which I lived, and where my wife, my mother, and my children were living. I was stopped by the German lieutenant when I was going back, and he told me to stop, turn back, and go to the boat. I pointed out to the lieutenant that I was in my pajamas and that I only had an overcoat, apart from that, and slippers. And I also told him that he should give me an opportunity to prepare myself better for such a trip, and that also I had a family after which I had to look.
He ordered a soldier to take me to the boat at once. I pointed out to him that he himself had posted sentries around the village which were to see to it that the whole population was to board the ships, and I thought If there were such sentries around the village there would not be any harm if I could go back to the house and prepare myself for the trip and for my family. Thereupon he gave me permission to do that. I went back to my house, and the soldier who had been there said the same, that an hour at the latest we should be on the boat, and that we should prepare ourselves for that.
During the time that remained to us we succeeded in leaving our house and getting into the mountains. Later it appeared that the rest of the population had done the same -- that is, had taken to the mountains.
I want to know your attention to the fact that the country around SKjanes is very rough. It is very easy to hide one's self there and to get away from the place.
This ship of which I have spoken previously left in about one hour had only the children were on that boat and the people who had looked after the children.
MR. RAPP: Witness, the Judge wants to say something.
PRESIDENT JUDGE CARTER: We will take our morning recess at this time.
(A recess was taken)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will be seated.
The Tribunal is again in session.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: You may proceed.
BY MR. RAPP:
Q Would you please carry on with your report?
AAs I have already said, we went into the mountain in order to escape from the German forced evacuation. I would like to point out here that the places which I mentioned before such as Skajanes, Finnkonjkeila, et cetera, were on the Nurfen Peninsula and there are no road communications there.
The next day it was the 2nd of November an armed fishing boat came to Skjanes, a kind of auxiliary war ship. Germans landed from the ship and then they started to burn down houses and the village. The civilian population was then in the mountains in the neighboring district. Since we saw that the Germans were starting to bum down the village, we tried to come as near to the village as possible in order to see what was going on.
The same thing happened which happened in Finnkonjkeila. Explosive stuff such as gasoline was taken into the houses. The windows were broken and soon after this the houses burst into flames.
Those domestic animals which the population were not able to bring into safety were taken by the Germans. Some of them were slaughtered on the spot. Others were taken on to the ship.
As I have already said, we collected in the mountains and after all we had there a camp in which we were collected. None of us had more with us except that which we carried on our bodies and we were gathered there together. We were altogether 130 people. The eldest was 86 years old. The youngest was a girl 4 days old. This little girl and the mother of this child we had taken on a stretcher into the mountains shortly before the buring started.
For three days we stayed out in the open and in the meantime we tried to erect some kind of houses. We build a kind of house which we call up there a "Gamme". That is a house made from turf.
After these three days we succeeded in building sufficient houses and to develop these houses sufficiently in order to get into them. We had very little to eat and we had very few clothes.
What we had to eat was mostly cattle which we slaughtered, cattle which we had saved from the Germans. We were there in the mountains for 17 days. In the first days, while we we re there, we saw continuously, German ships coming from and going into the Fjord, and German aircraft which flew over our heads. We had no communications with other villages, neither telephones nor roads.
We knew that Finnkonjkeila had been burned to the ground. We had seen the sea of flames in Berlevaag. We sent small patrols of two or three men to Gamvik, and Mehamn to see what was happening there, and we discovered there that these villages were completely destroyed, that they had been blown up and burned down, and that the population had been compulsorily evacuated to the south.
From the 17th of November, a German motor boat came from Batsfjord, and we discovered there how conditions further east in Finnmark were. I went with the motorboat when it went back east, and came in this way as far as Vardoe.
Q Witness, one moment please. Was it a German or Norwegian motorboat?
A It was a Norwegian motor boat.
Q Thank you very much.
A In that way I got to Vardoe, where I worked. After all, I had a job. I got there on the 19th of November. My job was to collect information about the population which had remained behind, so that we could help them. It turned out that we had a few Norwegian motor boats left, boats which we had succeeded in saving. So far as it was possible, to use these motor boats to transport the people who were still in the open, we did this, but it must be remembered that the German control had to be avoided.
In addition my job was to interrogate people who came from West Finnmark. It turned out that there also a few motor boats had been saved. As soon as it became a little quieter there, - as soon as there weren't so many German ships there, these boats, -- those motorboats, - started out to eastern Finnmark. There were also boats coming from Lofoten.
They made a large bend in the north and then they landed in eastern Finnmark.
After we had listened to the people who arrived in this way, we learned much more about what had happened in the various villages. Slowly but surely, we discovered what had happened and the whereabouts of people, and where help was most needed. The Norwegian soldiers had arrived at this time in Finnmark, and Lt. Colonel Johnson, was appointed leader of the expedition which was to help the civilian population.
We listened to what these people who came from the other parts of Finnmark had to say, and in this way we also discovered how the Germans had acted in the various districts.
Slowly but surely we succeeded in bringing the people who had been living under the most difficult conditions to Eastern Finnmark. In the meantime we received news that the Germans had also been carrying out destructions in Western Finnmark.
Q Witness, the town of Vardoe which you spoke about last, it is on the Varanger peninsula; is that correct?
A It is on the Varanger Peninsula. Vardoe, - the town of Vardoe, is on a small island which is divided from Varanger by a sound. There is no land communication from the town to the island, but the main road goes on up to this waterway, this sound.
Q Would you please show us the town of Vardoe on the map? Witness where is the main road 50 which goes from the East to the West?
(Witness indicating these things on map?
A It starts here and then goes along this red line where I am pointing.
Q How far, approximately is this town, Vardoe, from the main road, main road 50 which goes from the East to the West?
A The waterway which divides Vardoe from the main road is about 1500 meters wide.
Q I do not think the witness understood my question.
A From the main road 50 there is a branch, a continuation, so to speak, from Vardoe to Vardsae.
Q Witness, the question I think was very simple. How far is the distance from the main road 50 to Vardoe, in kilometers?
A 75 kilometers from Vardoe to Vardsae.
Q That still is not the answer to my question. You have now told me how far from Vardoe to Vardsae. I asked you how far it is from Vardoe to the main road, 50.
AAbout 125 kilometers.
Q That's correct. Now, witness, this town which you mentioned before, - my Norwegian is not very good, - but it's Finnkenjkeila, how far is this place from the main road 50, in kilometers?
A 130 or 140 kilometers.
Q. Witness, in your capacity as a policeman up there, have you often traveled through this whole territory?
A. Yes.
Q. During the occupation?
A. Not as much during the time of the occupation as afterwards.
Q. How soon after the occupation?
A. I went from Skjanes to Vardoe on the 17th and 18th of November. On the 18th of December, I was in Berlevaag. On the 28th or 29th of December, I went from Vardoe to Palmak, and then back again.
Q. An of these towns which you have named are in Finnmark?
A. Yes. In May, 1946, I went by air from Vardoe to Tromsoe. That is on the other side of Finnmark, in the West.
Q. Were these trips which you have just spoken about of an official nature?
A. A part of them, yes. Some of them were official. The trip to Tromsoe was of a private nature.
Q. Apart from the private trip, what was your official task?
A. My trip to Berlevaag, had to do with the traitors, - the trial against the people who had committed high treason.
Q. Witness, you do not have to toll us the reasons for every single one of your official trips. Generally speaking, in which capacity did you travel there, and what was on the whole, your task?
A. I travelled in the capacity of a police official. They were only investigations on those kinds of tasks.
Q. Did you have contact with the inhabitants during these trips?
A. Yes.
Q. Witness, during the evacuation did you ever receive a reason from the German occupation authority why the evacuation took place?
A. Yes. During the conversations which I mentioned before with the German officer in Finnkonjkeila, I heard about this. This was that the population had to be taken from the sphere of the threatening soviet Russian domination of terror. When I was in the house of my mother--in law in order to get the clothes which I spoke about before, I met a German soldier who was forcing some drawers, etc.
I do not know what he was looking for. He saw that I took various pieces of clothing, and tried to put them into my rucksack, and he said to me, "Leave it; you don't need anything." He said, "If you should succeed in getting away into the mountains, you are going to be shot anyway, and if the Russians come, then you will be used for forced labor in Siberia, and you don't need any of these things there."
Q. Witness, did the Russians really penetrate into this territory about which we are just speaking?
A. No.
Q. Did the population with whom you spoke ever tell you what they thought bout the reason for the evacuation?
A. The Norwegian population regarded the destructions which bad taken place, and the evacuation as pure vandalism.
MR. RAPP: I have no further questions at this time, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITSCH:
Q. Dr. Fritsch for the defendant Rendulic. Witness, you were a police official for four years during the occupation?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, then, you worked for the Quisling government?
A. No.
Q. You were a police official?
A. Yes.
Q. And who constituted the government then?
A. From 1941, it was the Quisling government.
Q. And to whom were you subordinate as a police official?
A. During the period of the Quisling government, we police officials followed the orders and paroles which were given us by our lawful government in London.
Q. But the exiled government in London couldn't give any individual orders, any detailed orders.
A. We had our system of information and we were so informed that we know and could follow what was decided in London.
Q. And what kind of information was this? What system of information?
A. We listened to the Norwegian radio from London. I would like to point out that the Quisling government had their own police, state police, and a party police.
Q. Well, who paid you then?
A. I got my salary from the Norwegian state.
Q. And this Norwegian state was represented by the Norwegian Minister of the Interior for you?
A. I would like to point out to the defense counsel that although we had a Quisling government in the country, the Norwegian resistance movement was in no way dead, only a small percentage of the population supported the Quisling government and the government was supported by bayonets.
Q. Witness, when the Quisling government came into power, did you have to swear an oath of loyalty to them?
A. No, we didn't have to. If anyone had been asked to swear this kind of oath, I would have left my job.
Q. Witness, I am now speaking about the period November 1944. According to your description, a telephone conversation from Finnkonjkeila told you for the first time of the imminent evacuation. Is that correct?
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. And previously, no announcements of any kind had been issued about an evacuation?
A. During the middle of October, I went on my bicycle from Vardoe to Smallfjord and then I went on by boat to Skjanes. There I saw an heard that the Norwegian members of the Nazi Party had received information that they were to be evacuated. They were told that they were to be brought to safety. About that time, I didn't discover anything about the fact that the Norwegian population was to be evacuated. This information only referred to the Nazi population, and I thought it probably that the Germans would tell their followers in Norway that they were to be brought to safety.
Q. Witness, when did you see for the first time a poster, an announcement which urged the population to evacuate?
A. As I traveled through Tana, those proclamations were nowhere to be seen. As I have already said, in Skjanes there was no land communication. Everything there took place at sea, by sea routes. The only telephonic communication which we had in Skjanes was with Finnkonjkeila and in this part of the country no posters were put up.
Q. And did you see later on posters of this kind?
A. Yes. I saw then when I came back to Vardoe in connection with the work which I had to do as a police official.
Q. Witness, did you go in an official capacity to Skjanes?
A. Yes.
Q. As a police official?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, what did you have to do there? Just one quite short answer.
A. Since the town of Vardoe was far from the main routes, it was decided that a part of the police chamber there was to be transferred and this part was to be taken to Skjanes.
Q. Who issued this order?
A. The order was given to me by my chief, the police director in Vardoe.
Q. And from whom did the director of police receive this order?
A. I can't say because I naturally do not have the right to ask my superiors from whom they received their orders.
Q. To whom was this police director subordinate?
A. The Department of Justice was superior to the Police director.
Q. And this Department of Justice belonged to the Quisling government?
A. Yes, but a very large percentage - the greatest percentage in the Department of Justice did not belong to the Quisling Government.
Q. Not to the Quisling government? Or the Quisling party?
A. Only the ministers were in the government.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The Tribunal will recess until one-thirty this afternoon.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. RAPP: Your Honors will see before them a piece of paper which I have passed out during the recess to be marked for identification 523-A. I just wanted to get this in in time so that by tomorrow noon when the 24-hour period elapses we can tie this particular certificate up to Norway Document 6--523-A. I furnished copies of this to the interpreters, the court reporters, the assistant Secretary General, the German defense counsel.
CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. FRITSCH:
Q Your Honor, may I continue the cross examination? Witness, before the noon recess, you told me that the middle of October, 1944, you had been transferred to Skjanes by the then Norwegian government.
A Yes.
Q Were you then again in service as a police sergeant major?
A The police office was to be transferred. However, it did not get there because the boat which was to take these people there was seized by the Germans and requisitioned. That was in Batsfjord.
Q What did you do in Skjanes?
A I was waiting there for our office. The telephone communications were cut and for that reason I had no information. I was waiting for the boat to arrive.
Q Witness, who was your highest superior in Norway?
A The police was administered by the Justice Department and thus the Justice Department was the highest authority.
Q And this Justice Department was part of the Norwegian Government of that day?
A It is like this: every minister took care of the duties of his department.
Q He belonged to the government, didn't he?
A Yes, he did.
Q Witness, you told me that you did not have to swear an oath of loyalty to the Norwegian government of that time. Is that correct?
A Yes, it is.
Q Only you yourself didn't swear an oath of loyalty or did none of the police officials swear an oath of loyalty?
A The whole of the police. Those who were Norwegians among the police officials did not swear so oath of loyalty.
Q But then you carried out your duties on the directives of that government?
A I would like to point out that the adherents of Quisling goverment in Norway were not more than two per cent of the population. In all departments of the government, people who were bitter enemies of the Quisling government had their place. Even within the Quisling party, the resistance movement had its people who informed the resistance movement about what was happening within the Quisling party. It might be said that the whole country, almost the entire population was not only opposed to the Quisling government but was fighting against the government.
Q Excuse me, that is sufficient for my purposes. Witness, you then went to the Norwegian place which I can hardly pronounce-Finnkonjkeila. The German soldiers who landed there--you saw them, did you?
A Yes, I did.
Q Were these marines or were they ordinary troops?
A Ordinary army troops as well as marines.
Q How did you recognize the difference?
AAfter the Germans had been in the country for four years, it was natural that one knew the difference between a marine and an ordinary army soldier.
Q You talked with the leader of that unit?
A Yes.
Q That was a Lieutenant?
A Yes.
Q A Lieutenant of the Marines?
A That was an army lieutenant.
Q Do you know, witness, when in this place the inhabitants were first asked to evacuate it?
A That was on the previous day, on the 30th of October, 1944.
Q And in what manner?
A This place has no road communications; for that reason, a ship came which landed those soldiers. These soldiers went through the village and told the population what was to happen.
Q Witness, you had said in this children's home which was situated in this village had been transferred from Vardoe. Is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.