Court V Case VII
Q Did you all that time consider the whole of Serbia as occupied territory?
A Yes, your Honor.
Q And it is your thought that as Commander you were Military Commander in the occupied territory of Serbia. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Was the whole of Serbia under your direct command at the time you went there in 1943?
A Yes, the whole of Serbia; that's right.
Q You mean by that the whole of Serbia had been conquered by the German Army at that time?
A Yes.
Q And you at that time required the inhabitants to act as inhabitants of occupied territory under the rules of international law. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Now, did you at that time have control of all of the Governmental offices of Serbia?
A Yes.
Q Now how many troops did you have under your control at that time?
A In the Serbian area approximately 70,000 but this figure is just a rough estimate.
Q Now, generally speaking, how were they deployed?
A They were employed generally speaking for the protection of important railroad lines, and highways, and their artificial constructions; the troops of the police were as a rule employed for the protection of the harvest, for the protection of the mines, and for special installations like for instance electric plants. The German troops which only existed in small units were kept by me generally for my own disposal. That is rough outline is the division of the various units.
Q. Now, were you familiar at that time with the concentrations of bandits, whether you referred to them as partisans, communists or Chetniks, or whatever they may be, - are you familiar with the location of those large groups, generally speaking?
A. We knew pretty well the general localities of the bands when formed. Generally speaking it was like this: Numerous hordes, without any connection, were split up in the main areas in Serbia, especially in the inaccessible mountain terrain. Besides, there was the question of going to and from the Croatian area and also from the Sautchak area, from the West into the Serbian area, and as I've said before, there was a constant coming and going.
Q. Did you deploy any considerable number of your troops to counter the activities of these band groups?
A. I have really always had my troops on the march and I have also put this down in the memorandum which was already mentioned. According to this memorandum there were about 20 enterprises, or operations, on a large or small scale, which became necessary in the course of one year.
Q. When you went to Serbia in 1943, did you consider the captured members of these bands as prisoners of war?
A. I have repeatedly, again and again, ordered, and in the presence of my troops on occasions when the troops were in bandit area, I again and again had to express my wish that with captured bandits we had to deal exactly in the same manner was with prisoners of war whom we took in other theaters of war and in other fronts.
Q Were they in fact at that time treated as prisoners of war?
A. In any case during the whole time I received no report and no complaints, not even from the Serbian Government which observed these matters very carefully, saying that the troops did not comply with this order.
Q. Do I understand then that you treated captured bandits as prisoners of war because you considered the bands themselves as regular organized armed forces?
A. No, I did not have this conception; but in spite of the fact that I was of a different opinion, an opinion that these are not organized military soldierly troops, but in spite of this I insisted that the prisoners were to be treated as prisoners of war because I wanted to avoid that a mutual butchering would take place.
Q. Was there any time after you went to Serbia in August of 1943 that you arrived at the conclusion that the bands as you refer to them, were, in fact, an organized Army and entitled to be treated as such?
A. I have not gained that impression. Only as of July 1944 were the bands really more and more found to appear as organized units. We then also received reports saying that Tito's units now had grouped themselves, into divisions, and were dispersing over the whole country according to plan; this was only established in the summer of 1944. As of this date also the method of combat of the enemy changed. The resistance became much tougher, and the coming and going stopped. From that time on we found that quite a considerable opponent opposed us.
Q. It is your thought then that in July 1944 the bandits or partisans or Chetniks, or whatever you may call them, were entitled to be classified as an Army in the field against the German Army. Is that correct?
A. I would like to specify the period as beginning with August 1944.
Q. Was there any decision made to that effect?
A. As I understand the question, whether we changed our behavior as of that date? Is that correct?
Q. Substantially.
A. No, an alteration of our combat methods was not necessary be cause even prior to that we endeavored to wage the battle, according to purely military, soldierly points of view.
Q. Would you mind briefly stating the changes in conditions that came about at the beginning of August 1944, that caused to change your views about the nature of the opposition?
A. After the opponent was now spreading over the whole of the Serbian area according to plans, also turning up in territories and recruited people in territories, where up to then almost never bands had appeared, I myself was forced to keep my troops tightly together and not as it had been before that, split up all over the country in smaller units. I had consciously to take into account the fact that large parts of Serbia for a period were without any military security.
Q. It is your thought then that after August 1, 1944 that the territory of Serbia was not at that time fully occupied, militarily speaking, by the German Wehrmacht. Is that correct?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. No further questions.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Judge Wennerstrum, do you care to ask any questions of the witness?
JUDGE WENNERSTRUM: No.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Dr. Laternser?
DR. LATERNSER: Yes, I would like to.
BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q. General, I believe that there were a few misunderstandings which crept up here. Were you ever during your activities in Serbia of the opinion that at any given period the Partisans, the Partisan activity, was a legal activity, that is, a legal force?
A. No.
Q. Never?
A. Not up to the 1st of August.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Dr. Laternser, do I take it from your question that you are seeking to cross-examine the witness on the examination given by Judge Carter?
DR. LATERNSER: Yes, your Honor, only by this one point.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Very well.
BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q. You said that until the 1st of August 1944 you regarded the Partisan movement as an illegal movement. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Why did you change this opinion?
A. I had to change my opinion because in July, according to what we could establish in July 1944 from the equipment of the Partisans, because they were being equipped suddenly with uniforms, guns, ammunition, machine guns, foreign equipment, foreign instructors to a large extent.
Q. General, you then mean to say that an illegal movement becomes legal when it is well organized?
A I did not say that, that I now regarded Tito's legions as legal. All I said, at least as far as I recollect, all I said was, all I wanted to say was, that as of the 1st of July the pure band character, the band characters of the combat methods of this unit stopped.
Q. But your opinion as Military Commander Southeast that this was an illegal force against the occupation power, this opinion you never did change at any time?
A No.
Q. But this impression did at first appear here?
A I regret that.
Q. You further answered a question of the Honorable Judge to the effect that through the fact that the bands occasionally kept vast parts of Serbia occupied the occupation by the German Armed Forces could not be regarded as a complete one.
A Yes.
Q. When is an occupation complete?
A When the territories of the occupied territory--when I can rule this territory with my force, with my unit, so that I am master of the situation.
Q. In a certain spot where you wanted to be stronger than the bands, couldn't you manage to make yourself so strong there that you were stronger than the bands?
A. We adhered to this procedure which was customary to us. We attempted to adhere to it in the Balkans, too, but because of the insufficient number of the units at my disposal and again because of the formation of the country it was not possible. I had to use my few units inasmuch as they were not employed with protec tion of railroad lines, protection of bridge, etc.
, and were not tied up I had to employ them very carefully and economically.
Q. The territories which you are talking about now, they changed currently, didn't they?
A. Generally speaking, that does apply. There were, of course the same territories again and again where the bandits' battle was mostly waged.
Q. It was so, wasn't it, that during a long period, almost the whole time you were down there, one part of Serbia was almost completely occupied by the partisans?
A. No.
Q. And if you had attached importance to one particular locality which was occupied by bandits for a lengthy period you were in a position to take it, weren't you?
A. I wouldn't answer that with an unqualified "yes" because that depended how far I was otherwise engaged with my units.
Q. General, I would like to put the question--I would like to see the question answered less in a tactical manner--I would like to know, if you wanted to could you take a certain locality.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: I didn't hear the conclusion of the question.
THE INTERPRETER: "What I wanted to know was, if you endeavored to, could you take one specific locality, if you wanted to"--end of question.
MR. RAPP: We might say that defense counsel is arguing with the witness. The witness has already given previously an answer to his question.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: I think that is probably true but we will proceed.
Q. I therefore ask you now to answer the question put to you.
A. May I ask to have the question put to me again?
Q. If you had the intention--if you wanted to carry out the intention to take one specific locality because it seemed important to you--maybe it was on a main highway--could you achieve that?
A. Not always.
DR. LATERNSER: No further questions.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Any further questions of this witness?
MR. RAPP: We have no questions, Your Honor.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: At this time I have no questions. I will reserve the right, however, to interrogate this witness at the conclusion of the defendants' testimony.
MR. RAPP: Your Honor, I would only like to recall the Tribunal's attention the remarks I believe Mr. Denney and also myself, have made to the Tribunal regarding the further disposition of this witness. He is a prosecution witness and we were prior committed to the extradition of this witness, Your Honor. I am merely stating this in reference to your statement, Your Honor, just made.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: I should view with grave concern any inability to produce him at the time I have indicated.
The witness may at this time be excused.
MR. RAPP: Your Honors, Mr. Fenstermacher is now putting in Document Book No. XIX.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honors, please-
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Pardon me, Mr. Fenstermacher, just a moment.
You may proceed, Mr. Fenstermacher.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors please, with the presentation of Document Books XVII and XVIII and the testimony of General Felber, we complete, with the exception of the document which I should like to introduce at this time, the prosecution evidence with respect to the situation in Croatia and Serbia during this final phase of the prosecution's case.
That is the period from August 1943 until the evacuation of the Balkans in October 1944.
As an additional document with Document Book XVIII, I should like to offer into evidence the document which Mr. Denney passed out to the Tribunal and to defense counsel yesterday. That is a series of photographs which were marked "Exhibit 441a" for identification, a series of photographs which form a part of the report.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Pardon me, Mr. Fenstermacher. Will you defer your remarks for just a moment?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The next document was marked yesterday "Exhibit 441a" for identification, it being a series of photographs which form a part of the report of the National Commission for the Investigation of War Crimes of Jugoslavia.
Now, Your Honors, I wonder if Your Honors and defense counsel have this exhibit present in Court. This was offered yesterday in order that we come within the 24-hour limit. Do Your Honors have it?
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Offered at approximately three o'clock?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I think it was, Your Honor.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: We will take a recess at this time until three-fifteen.
( A recess was taken. )
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: You may proceed, Mr. Fenstermacher.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: May it please the Tribunal, we should now like to have Exhibit 441a for Identification introduced as Prosecution's Exhibit 441. This is a series of 28 photographs which from a part of a report of the National Jugoslav Commission for the investigation of War crimes. In assembling this set of photographs, several of the originals of these photographs were inserted by error. The original photograph looks like this, it is somewhat yellow in color, and has writing on the back of the photograph in the Yugoslavia language -
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: How many are there in the portfolio? How many separate photographs?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: There are 28, your Honor.
I wonder if your Honors and defense counsel would look through your sets of these photographs and see whether you have the originals from which we made the photostatic copies. The original is somewhat yellow in color and has Yugoslavian language written on the back, and one page of English translation.
We should like to call in all of the originals so that they might be returned to the Jugoslavian Government. If no originals are outstanding we may proceed with the submission of the photostatic copies.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: We find none in our sets.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Thank you, your Honor.
If your Honors please, the English pagination for each of these photographs should be numbered, page 107, and the following numbers to the end, which I believe is page 134 in the English, and in the German, the pagination begins with page 102 and continuous with the 27 other numbers.
The first photograph is numbered 2004, and represents a scene from the village of Prisoje, Stupnido and Potkozara, district of Cajniki.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: Where are these numbers, Mr. Fenstermacher?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: They appear, if your Honor pleases, on the top right-hand corner of the English translation.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: I am referring now to the page numbers of the exhibit. Are those pages 107 to 134, volume 18?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: They are in Volume 18, your Honor.
The first photograph which will become page 107 in the English document book is page 103 in the German, and is numbered 2004, and represents a scene from the Village of Prisoje, Stupnido and Potkozara, district of Cajniki in which 31 persons, including 4 children, 14 women and 13 men were killed in reprisal by troops of the 3rd Battalion of the 750th Regiment, 118th Jaeger Division, under the leadership of Captain Karl Stenzel, Battalion C.O. and by order of Guenther Tribukeit, Regimental Commander. This crime was committed on the 8th of July, 1943.
The photograph is certified to by the President of the National Commission for the investigation of War crimes of Jugoslavia.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honor, I object to the introduction of this picture which has just been offered. What has just been said has not been proven by the picture.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: I think that is true, but the ruling we made on the matter of the admissibility of prior photographs was made upon the theory that they would be taken for what they are worth, if anything, and if a proper proof indicates some degree of formality to the truth and veracity of the alleged pictures.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The next photograph, number 2006, represents the same scene as the previous photograph, and your Honors will note in the left hand portion of the photograph, a picture of a small child, which investigation established was killed during the incident.
PRESIDENT WENNERSTRUM: How do you designate it? Page what, page 100?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: This second photograph, your Honor, will become page 108 in the English, and 104, I believe, in the German.
The third photograph is No. 5213, and represents a scene from the mass annihilation of the civilian population of the village of Sokolac, in Bosnia, by the German Wehrmacht. The exact date of the incident could not be established, probably in the year 1944."
Your Honors will note the presence of German soldiers around a tree from which a man in civilian clothes is hanging.
PRESIDENT WENNERSTRUM: This is 109?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Yes, your Honor, 109.
The next photograph will become page 110 in the English, is photograph No 5206, and it relates to the same scene as the preceding photograph. Your Honors will note that this is a man in civilian clothes, hanging head downward with a sign above his feet.
The next photograph, page 111 in the English, relates to the very same incident, a scene from the mass annihilation of the civilian population.
JUSTICE CARTER: Let's have the number of the picture first.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The number of the picture is 5212, your Honors, and becomes page 111 in the English. The photograph represents a scene from the mass annihilation of the civilian population in the Village of Sokolac, Rosnia, by the German Wehrmacht. The exact date of the incident could not be established, probably in the year 1944.
Again, your Honors will note two German soldiers standing around the body of the man in civilian clothes, hanging from a tree.
The next photograph is numbered 5208, and becomes page 112 in the English document book 18. Investigation established that the photograph represents a scene from the mass annihilation of the civilian population of the village of Sokolac in Rosnia by the German Wehrmacht, and again the exact date of the incident could not be established. It was probably in the year 1944.
The next photograph is number 2384, and becomes page 113 in the English. This photograph represents a scene during the mass shootings to death of civilians in Bosnia, in the course of the so-called penal expedition.
Your Honors will note the German soldier who is photographing the mass of bodies lying there.
The next photograph, No. 3074, which should be marked page 114 in the English, is a photograph representing the setting afire of a Serbian village near Kosovska Mitrovica by the German Wehrmacht at the time of the penal expedition.
Your Honors will note the type of village in Serbia, as revealed by the photograph, - small houses with thatched roofs, and the German soldiers in the foreground of the photograph.
The next photograph, No. 58, page 115 of the English, investigation established picture represents one of the numerous groups of the civilian population in Bosnia which were driven by the Germans through the Bosnian forests to death camps, concentration camps or to compulsory labor in Germany."
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: Mr. Fenstermacher, please proceed somewhat more slowly.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I would be glad to, your Honor.
The next photograph is No. 59, page 116 in the English. The photograph represents one of the numerous groups of the civilian population in Bosnia, driven by the Germans through the Bosnian forests to death camps, concentration camps or to compulsory labor in Germany.
Your Honors will note the large number of women in this photograph.
The next photograph is No. 61, page 117 in the English document book, again this photograph represents one of the numerous groups of the civilian population in Bosnia taken by the Germans to death camps, concentration camps or for slave labor in Germany.
Photograph No. 69, page 118 of the English, again the photograph represents the deportation of women and children in the village of Knezevo-Polje near Bosanske Dubice to German internment for slave labor.
Your Honors will not the presence of small children in the photograph.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honors, it is correct that on this photograph there are women and children; but there are only women and children in the picture. I do not see one single soldier or policeman in the picture, and everything else which has been said here is not proved, his arguing.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: For the reasons previously stated, Dr. Laternser, they will be received.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The next photograph is 4943, which will be page 119 in the English document book. Investigation established that the photograph represents one of the numerous groups of the civilian population in Bosnia which were taken by the Germans to death camps, concentration camps, or for slave labor in Germany.
Your Honors will note three German soldiers, armed, at the head of a column of native inhabitants.
The next six photographs -- withdrawn.
The next photograph, No. 1212, becomes page 120 in the English.
Investigation could not establish time or place of the incident of the picture. All that could be established was that the incident occurred in Bosnia, and that the corpse which is being stepped on by a German officer was of a Bosnian peasant.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: We may wait just a minute to catch up on our marking. You may proceed.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The next five photographs seem to relate to the same incident. Investigation established the picture represents a scene during the --
PRESIDENT WENNERSTRUM: This is 1164?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I beg your pardon. I am glad to mention it. 1164 becomes page 121 in the English.
Investigation established that the picture represents a scene during the executions of captured fighters of the Yugoslav Peoples' Liberation Army. The photograph relates to an incident which occurred in the village of Razore in Slovenia on 9 June, 1944.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honor, even after the statement of the prosecution, the pictures mentioned cannot be admitted, because the territory does not belong to the so-called Southeastern, but to the territory of the commander for the Adriatic Coast area, and this command for the Adriatic Coast area was not subordinate to any of the defendants. Therefore there are pictures which have no connection at all with the defendants and the charges here.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors please, it is the prosecution's contention that Slovenia was within the jurisdiction of the defendants involved in this proceeding, and also that the pictures are representative of events which happened not only in Slovenia, but which happened in Croatia and Serbia as well.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honor, I am expressly concerned with the decision on this question. It is a pure assertion on the part of the prosecution that - Slovenia belonged to the territory which we are speaking about. I maintain that this is not so, and it proved before these photographs can be accepted. The photographs must be rejected.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: The Tribunal is aware of the fact that any statement made by the counsel for the prosecution as a statement of fact represents simply his own view and does not reach the dignity of evidence.
We assume that it will later be connected with it since the statement has been made.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: We intend to do that, your Honor.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: You may proceed.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The next photograph is Number 536, which become page 122 in the English. The text on the back of the photograph is the same as on the first preceding photograph, and we believe that the picture speaks for itself.
DR. LATERNSER: I object against this picture in particular your Honor, and its introduction. I object particularly because from this photograph itself, from the decorations of rank it can be seen quite clearly that this is a member of the SS police who were never subordinate in any way at all to the defendants, and therefore, for this reason, this photograph particularly must be rejected.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: It seems to the Tribunal, Dr. Laternser, the fact is merely a matter for argument rather than a matter for the introduction of proof at this time. The pictures have been received with the clear statement that they would be received for what they are worth. What may follow later is open to the defense at any time.
You may proceed.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Turning to the next photograph, No. 1165, it should be marked page 123 in the English. The accompanying text for this photograph is the same as with the two preceding photographs, and we believe is an additional photograph of the same event.
Continuing with photograph No. 1166, page 124 in the English, it is an additional photograph which relates to the three preceding photographs and needs no comment here.
Photograph No. 1168, page 126 in the English, investigation established that the picture represents Major Jozu Mirtica. He was captured by the Germans and mistreated.
The 5-pointed star was hacked into his face by them, and finally they killed him.
Photograph No. 213, page 127 in the English, represents a scene from the neighborhood of the Village of Jajince near Belgrade, where the Germans shot to death and killed some thousands of civilian internees from the death camp of Banjica and where they burned 80,000 bodies of their victims on the pyre, particularly during the last months before their retreat from Belgrade.
Photograph No. 212, page 128 of the English, the text is the same as for the preceding document and needs no further comment.
PRESIDENT WENNERSTRUM: Page 128 is it not?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: That is right, your Honor.
The next is photograph, No. 650, page 129 of the English, investigation established that the picture represents atrocities committed by German troops on the civilian population in northern Istria in October, 1944.
With the final, five photographs, we are concerned with the actions of the German troops as they retreated from Belgrade, in October, 1944.
Photograph No. 720, page 130 in the English, shows a building, No. 6 to 8 Studentenplatz Belgrade which was undermined and destroyed by German troops before they retreated from Belgrade in October, 1944. This building, as well as numerous other destroyed buildings are destroyed buildings are civilian residences in the center of the city and without any military significance.
The next photograph seems to have no number. It should be marked page 131 in the English, which shows the demolished building of the philosophical faculty of the University of Belgrade which in addition to numerous other buildings was set afire and destroyed by the Germans without any military reason before their retreat from Belgrade in October, 1944. Valuable scientific collections and laboratories were destroyed with the building.
The next photograph, No. 12, page 132 in the English, shows the building and the installations of the Avala mill in Belgrade which was mined and destroyed by the Germans immediately before their retreat from Belgrade on 15 October 1944.
The next photograph, No. 2a, page 133 of the English, shows the building on the corner Gospodar Jevremove and the Koschuskova Street which was set on fire and destroyed by the Germans immediately before they retreated from Belgrade in October, 1944.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honor, this should really be checked on. I have just been informed that, for instance, the destruction on picture 112, was caused by an American air raid on Belgrade. There were several American fire attacks on Belgrade, and now this picture is submitted by the prosecution with the assertion that the destructions were carried out by the German troops in their retreat.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honors, if you please, Dr. Laternser's remarks are certainly gratuitously given and cannot be considered evidence. If there is a conflict in fact as to what the picture truly represents, the defense is free to present their version and their interpretation of the destruction at the proper time.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: The fault, if any, is shared equally. You are both doing quite a bit of testifying.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The final photograph is number 730/23, page 134 of the English. The photograph "shows a destroyed house, 22 FASINA Street in Belgrade. It was mined and destroyed by the Germans immediately before their retreat on 18 October 1944. It has been established that many residents of the building, peaceful citizens of Belgrade were killed thereby. The picture represents the funeral of some of the victims."
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Sauter for the Defendants Lanz and Geitner. Your Honors, we have now been submitted a number of photographs, and you have already stated that you will only accept these photographs for the probative value which can be seen from the photographs themselves. In this direction - in that which concerns the court - we can be satisfied about this because everyone who looks at these photographs can see at once that they prove nothing at all against these defendants. If I nevertheless say something about these photographs very briefly, it is only for this reason that on behalf of my two clients Lanz and Geitner that I cannot leave this uncontradicted, that these photographs are presented against them.
During the past few days we have again experienced that these kinds of generalizations and unproved assertions which are presented here appear next day in German newspapers, perhaps even in foreign newspapers, and the newspaper do not say that the Prosecution authority has submitted a number of photographs regarding which we don't know from where they come, we do not know what they represent, and we also don't know how these executions, etc. came about; but in some newspaper or other, for instance, it was stated that against von Geitner photographs were submitted from which it is to be proved that no less than 68,000 people were burned up in one place on a Pile.
That is one single case. This goes into the newspapers and incriminates the defendants. And in the opinion of the German people sometimes it has a very drastic effect in the treatment of the members of the defendants.
JUDGE BURKE: To whom are you directing your objections?
DR. SAUTER: I am not making any objection against the photographs in themselves because the Tribunal has assured us that they will, of course, only accept the photographs with the probative value which can be seen from the photographs. But I would like to state publicly here so that the press does not give these erroneous reports and so that the two clients whom I represent have nothing to do with these things, just as in the same way probably as all the other defendants.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: The Tribunal is neither emotionally or temperamentally unstable. We are quite aware of the weight, if any, to be given by the Tribunal to the exhibits or to the testimony. So, this is not the appropriate time to which to argue the case. Then, the question of the influence upon the Tribunal, if any, of these photographs is one that I think you may safely leave to the judgment of the Tribunal. And what goes in the press, of course, is of no concern of this Tribunal. That is a field which is somewhat beyond the scope of our present activities.
DR. SAUTER: Of course, but the press is present, and the press here present brings the news submitted by the Prosecution here into the press, and it does not help my clients if perhaps three weeks or three months I can prove that my clients had nothing to do with these photographs. These press articles will appears tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, and they poison the whole morale of the people, and then they have an effect on the dependents of the defendants. I want to protest against this, and I want to state here that my two clients and probably also the others have nothing at all to do with these things, even if we cannot unfortunately prevent this kind of evidence of such a questionable value from being submitted here.