TEE PRESIDENT: It may be admitted in evidence.
MR. KING: May I ask if the representative of the Secretary General has copies of NG-1538, which is now being circulated, should be placed in Document Book II. This document, NG-1538, which will be Exhibit 502 when received in evidence, is an affidavit by Dr. Buchthal, who is on the staff of the Prosecution, to the effect that he has examined the ReichsGesetzblatt covering a period -- roughly of five years, and that in that period has found five laws which deal, with the question of sterilization.
Each of those five laws, one through five decrees, were signed by Dr. Schlegelberger. We are not offering at this time the entire decree in each instance, but merely the reference certified to by Dr. Buchthal as to where these decrees may be found. We offer the document NG 1538 as exhibit 502.
THE PRESIDENT: I did not get that last statement.
MR. KING: We do not, at this time, offer the full text of each of these five decrees. We merely offer the certification.
The Interpreters inform me that they did not get your statement.
THE PRESIDENT: You have made it clear. I do not see any use in repeating it.
The document may be received in evidence.
MR. KING: The next exhibit NG 1463, will become when received in evidence, exhibit 503. I suggest that this document be placed as the last document in supplement book 1.
THE PRESIDENT: You mean supplement 1?
MR. KING: Supplement 1, yes.
The document consists of excerpts from a pamphlet entitled -may I ask the translators to pronounce that name for me, please.
THE INTERPRETER: Das Gemeinschaftslager Hanns Kerrl. This was published by the Under-State Secretary Freisler, in the Ministry of Justice either in 1934 or 1935. The booklet was dedicated to the former Prussian Minister of Justice, Hanns Kerrl, and describes in a series of short articles and photographic illustrations the indoctrinations in the National Socialist ideologies which perspective lawyers and justice officials at the Hanns Kerrl camp received when they were sent there for a period of training. The document which we are offering consists of four photographic pages from that publication. We offer the document NG 1463 as exhibit 503.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you mean by that there were four photographs. I only find three.
MR. KING: May I see the original again, please. The original document consists of three photographs and two photostat negatives.
THE PRESIDENT: Where do you suggest they be placed in the document book?
MR. KING: That should be placed, Your Honor, in supplement book 1.
DR. BRIEGER: May I point out to the Tribunal that the affidavit which Dr. Kempner has signed cannot be seen here and where he has sworn to the statement; therefore, I should like to object against the document for technical reasons.
MR. KING: May I explain briefly the history of the affidavit by Dr. Kempner which accomplishes this exhibit. As Dr. Brieger points out, the original as circulated does not show that Dr. Kempner swore to the statement which he made. I called that to Dr. Kempner's attention sometime after the statement was prepared and he said, "I do not think that the Defense Counsel will question the fact that this is my statement and what I say is true". Whereupon I said, "Dr. Kempner, you do not reckon with some of our Defense Counsel." Whereupon I had Dr. Kempner swear to it, and the original which I have submitted to the Court shows Dr. Kempner's signature.
DR. BRIEGER: That, of course, I would like to believe, Mr. King, that Dr. Kempner is ready to swear to what he says. It is clear now from what he has stated here, accordingly I withdraw my objection.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. King, there seems to be a bit of discrepancy here. I understood you to say there were three photographs and two photostats.
MR. KING: Yes, the original shows that, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The first sheet here is a photostat, you mean?
MR. KING: No, by that I mean in addition to the statement of Dr. Kempner's. In the original the statement of Dr. Kempner's is not a photostat. It is an original document.
THE PRESIDENT: I am still confused by your statement that there are two photostats.
MR. KING: May I have the original returned once more, please.
THE PRESIDENT: It may be, as suggested by one of my colleagues, that the affidavit Dr. Kempner made is one of the photostats you refer to.
MR. KING: No, I thought perhaps that was where the confusion came on the part of the Bench. I believe in the copy you have the affidavit of Dr. Kempner is a photostat. Actually in the original it is not. It is an original document. The three photostatic copies of printed matter in the original are copies of page 13, page 34; and page 35 from the document. There are in addition to that three photographs, consisting of the cover page, page 49; and page 51 from the booklet. The affidavit of Dr. Kempner in the original, which is being handed up to the Secretary General is not a photostat but an original document.
JUDGE BRAND: Would you take a look at my copy and tell me if it is a complete copy consisting of everything you contend should be in it.
MR. KING: (Examining the document) Right. The discrepancy comes in that in the document which was sent up to the bench -- the mimeograph page contains the contex of the three photostat copies included in the original, so that page one actually represents the three photostatic copies to which I referred earlier.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be admitted in evidence.
DR. BRIEGER: Before I was quite ready to withdraw my objection, in fact, I have withdrawn my objection, but I should like to point out that the statement by Dr. Kempner -- the statement he signed only refers to the fact that the three photographs which are attached were taken from the book described. On the other hand, however, he did not make any statement concerning the text which has been submitted on the part of the Prosecution, in this document NG 1463; that is to say, the excerpts from page 13, and page 34 -- excerpts from these two pages; Therefore, I have to object -- one moment, I am shown right now by the Prosecution another certificate signed by Mr. Lorenz Eitner.
I would have to read this in order to find out whether this affidavit refers to these two excerpts.
I have to sustain my objection. As much as I can see by just going through the document it seems to be an accurate translation, but I could not state that definitely. However, the following seems to be of importance: The certificate only states that this is an accurate translation. It is, however, not explained, not stated in the certificate, that the German text, which is the basis of this document, was, in fact, taken from the book in question; and, furthermore, does not state.. Mr. King points but to me now that it says here, "excerpts from" 'Gemeinschaftslager Hanns Kerrl', edited by Freisler", and so forth. Still, I sustain my objection because the certificate only states that the above text has been accurately translated, but it does not state that the text was taken from the corresponding pages. Neither does it state that, the quotations, have been taken from the book without any omissions.
MR. KING: I think we can put to rest any fear that Dr. Brieger may have. We do have the entire book, and the copies, the pages, which we are submitting with the original exhibit have been copies from the book. So the implied suggestion in Dr. Brieger's remarks that the whole book, the entire book, is not in our possession, is not the case. I, for one, do not follow Dr. Brieger's objection since we assort, at the bottom of the mimeographed page of the Document 1463, that the above are excerpts from the "Hanns Karrl" pamphlet. There follows the certificate of translation in which the translator certifies that he has seen the original, and, in fact, the translation which appears here is from the original. I do not see how we can add to that proof unless we actually submit the entire, pamphlet itself. I perceive from Dr. Brieger's point of view that that may be desirable.
JUDGE BRAND: Mr. King, why don't you let him examine the book, and tomorrow, if he has some complaints that the copy is not accurate he can tell us, he can then raise what objections he wishes, and thus we can end this long discussion.
MR. KING: I would rather, your Honor, produce the pamphlet and let Dr. Brieger examine it in court because obviously he wants material which appears in the pamphlet which we may, or may not, wish him to have.
So I will ask that the pamphlet be produced and we will make the comparison here in court.
DR. BRIEGER: It is very agreeable to me, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal is ready to rule on this. Without further argument we are ready to rule on this matter. We give some force to that, the excerpts from the book, and regard that as part of the document, to which Eitner made oath, and we admit the document in evidence.
MR. KING: Is that admitted in evidence unconditionally, your Honor?
THE PRESIDENTS Absolutely, unconditionally, without further argument.
MR. KING: The next document will be NG-1046, Exhibit 504. I suggest that this document be placed as the last document in Supplement Book 6. This is a secret document concerned with the Nacht and Nebel program. The first letter, which hears the date, on pare 2, of 21 February 1944, is signed by von Ammon. The second paragraph of the Document explains the purpose -- and, incidentally, introduces the other documents, the other letters, which are attached to it -- and offer it as Exhibit 504. We find, throughout the document, discussion of the question of transfer of Nacht and Nebel prisoners to a new location for detention and for trial. The names of Mettgenberg, of von Ammon, of the defendant Joel, appear in one or more places throughout the balance of the document. We offer the Document NG-1046 as Exhibit 504.
THE PRESIDENT: The Document will be admitted in evidence.
MR. KING: May the record show that I am now handing to Dr. Brieger the Kerri pamphlet, which is quite apart from the admissibility of the document. I understand that has already been admitted. But I do want Dr. Brieger to see the entire pamphlet and know that it is in our possession.
THE PRESIDENT: Which Exhibit is that -- it isn't clear in my mind.
MR. KING: The one concerned with the Kerri pamphlet -- Exhibit 503, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR. KING: The next document will be NG-1336, and will be, when offered in evidence, Exhibit 505. We wish to offer this document without extensive reading or summary other than to say it is an affidavit of one Emil Schoder, who was sterilized pursuant to an order of a Health Court. He recites the facts relating to that sterilization in the affidavit, and we offer it, NG-1336, as Exhibit 505.
THE PRESIDENT: Where will you locate this document?
MR. KING: That should be placed as the last document in supplement book VIII.
May I inquire if Exhibit 505 has been received in evidence?
THE PRESIDENT: Not being entirely clear on that, I will admit it now, and a second time will not hurt.
MR. KING: Thank you. I may be in error myself on that. Your Honor.
Tho next document, NG --
DR. BRIEGER: In the meantime I have ascertained, on the basis of the pamphlet which was given to me, that the quotations submitted by the prosecution were submitted correctly and appear to be complete such as they are in the pamphlet in the passages quoted. I therefore withdraw any objection that I may have made.
MR. KING: The next document NG-1243, will become, when introduced, Exhibit 506. May I suggest that this document be placed as the last document in book supplement I. It will be noted that, at the beginning of the first page of the document as it has been distributed, that "documents are in preparation in Berlin and are enclosed", according to the note. Actually, the document 1243 as it has come into our hands is without those enclosures. Fortunately, from the point of view of proof, the documents are summarized so that it is possible to tell what the documents contain even though we do not have actual copies of them.
I would like at this time to turn through tho document 1243 and call to the Court's attention certain summaries of documents which apparently were enclosed with tho covering letters, that we would submit at this time if they were available to us.
On page 1 under or opposite "c", we note the document "concerning the retirement of State Secretary Schlegelberger upon his application and releasing him from his duties as Acting Minister for the Reich Minister of Justice." We note that that document had been enclosed.
Then, there was a draft of a personal letter from the Fuehrer to the State Secretary Dr. Schlegelberger, and a draft of a notice to the press, all concerned with his imminent retirement.
Then, on page 3, opposite Roman numeral four, we see the following:
"The question of a gift of honor for State Secretary Schlegelberger will, I assume, be brought up to the Fuehrer immediately by the Reich Minister. The same should apply to the question as to whether the Fuehrer is willing to receive State Secretary Schlegelberger personally for his release in the Fuehrer's headquarters."
That note concerning summaries of the documents to which I have referred is signed by Dr. Ficker.
Then, beginning on page 5, we find another note, signed by Dr. Ficker and Dr. Lammers, stating the results of a conference. The conference apparently was with Bormann, and at least Dr. Ficker, and also perhaps Dr. Lammers, attended.
Under "b", as a result of the conference, it is stated that: "State Secretary Dr. Schlegelberger is relieved of the post of Acting Reich Minister of Justice, and has been retired upon his request. He will receive a letter from the Fuehrer containing the proposed warding with regard to the changes made by the Fuehrer himself, as well as a gift of one hundred thousand Reichsmarks.
"c. The President of the Court of Appeal, Dr. Rothenberger, is to be appointed State Secretary of the Reich Ministry of Justice."
And under "d": "State Secretary Freisler is to resign from the Reich Ministry of Justice. The Fuehrer does not consider him suitable as President of the Academy for German Law. On the other hand, the Fuehrer would like to appoint him President of the People's Court, if he is willing to accept this office; otherwise his transfer to an inactive status shall have to be effected."
On page 7 there is an announcement of changes that were effected in the Ministry of Justice, concerning the retirement of Dr. Schlegelberger. We find that opposite the "a" under "2", and also under "b".
The balance of the letter is concerned with the retirements, transfers, and appointments which we have already discussed. There is, in addition, on pages 13 and 14, a press release which announced the retirement of Schlegelberger, the appointment of Rothenberger, and the transfer of Freisler.
We offer the document NG-1243 as Exhibit 506.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence.
Where will you place this document in the book? Oh, I think you have already stated that.
MR. KING: We call at this time the witness Muench, who will testify in the German language.
ANNI MUENCH, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE BRAND: Will you please raise your right hand and repeat after me the following:
I swear by God, the Almight and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE BRAND: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KING:
Q. Witness, would you please state for the court your name and you present place of residence.
A. The name is Anni Muench, nee Hoehne, residence Celle near Hannover, Schackstrasse No. 9.
Q. You are appearing before this Court to testify, are you not, to the facts concerning your involuntary sterilization pursuant to the order of the Health Court in Neuruppin?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you first please tell the Court something about your family background. May I suggest questions as the following: Are your parents still living? How large a family do you have, and are all of your family, that is your brothers and sisters, healthy so far as you know and have no mental defects? I would like you to develop your family background along the lines of those questions.
A. My father is 73 years old. My parents live in Wittenberge. My mother died on 23 March 1946 on account of a gall bladder disease. My parents were always healthy. I have four brothers and two sisters. All my brothers and sisters are married. All of them have healthy children. I have never noticed that any mental deficiency existed with my brothers and sisters.
Q. Will you please tell the Court the extent of your formal education and some of the jobs and positions which you have held.
A. At the age of seven I went to school, one year later than the others because I had been ill. I rent to Grundschule for four years and three years high school, Buergerschule. Because I was very weak I was one year behind. I left school in 1931 at Easter. 1931 to 1932 I went as a domestic servant in order to learn household work. From 1932 on I went out into the country to work as a farm helper, but half a year later I had to stop because that kind of work was too hard for me. In the fall of 1932 I started at the Singer Sewing Machine Factory, at Wittenberge, as an apprentice. In 1934, no, 1933, rather, as an apprentice worker I worked on these machines. In 1934, I was working as a worker in the Singer Sewing Machine factory. At the end of 1933 I met my husband. That is just about all.
Q. You are at present married?
A. I am married at Celle.
Q. Will you tell us, if you will, the circumstances surrounding your first marriage?
A. In 1933, toward the end of 1933 I met my first husband. I became pregnant February 1934. We had no means to get married because my father could not give me the money, and we asked for a loan, a martial loan. In order to make that application I had to submit proof of the health of my parents. I could do so. In August or September 1934, we were summoned by the Health Office. I had to go there, together with my husband. I entered and saw a certain Dr. Knappe at the Health Office. I had to undress and Dr. Knappe examined me. At that time Dr. Knappe put some questions to me, namely political questions when and where Hitler was born; whether I was for Hitler. I was somewhat surprised about the tone in which he put the questions, and I asked the doctor what that had to do with my application for a martial loan. Thereupon he shouted at me and told me to keep quiet. I started to cry and he sent me out of the room. One moment. Before that he put other questions. I didn't answer these questions any more because he had shouted at me already and I became rather obstinate.
Q. May I refer to the circumstances under which these questions were asked? You first applied for a marital loan. You were then summoned before the Health Court to answer questions. You were asked to undress, and while you were undressed these questions were put to you; is that right?
A. I had to bare the upper part of the body and Dr. Knappe examined me and put the questions at the same time, the political questions, that is to say, whether I was for Hitler, and when and where Hitler was born. I gave the answer and asked what that had to do with a marital loan, and that was when he told me to keep quiet and shouted at me, and when I started to cry he sent me out of the room.
Q. Now, after the birth of your child were you again summoned before the Health Court for further interrogation?
A. One week later, we received the information the application for marital loan had not been granted. I want to state that my pregnancy was rather far advanced at that time, and my child was born on the 4th of October, 1934. When I left the hospital six weeks later I was brought before a Eugenics Court at Neuruppin.
Q. That was approximately the middle of December, 1934?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you explain briefly what procedure was followed by the examining official at this Health Court in Neuruppin?
A. At the end of November, 1934, I received a summons to appear before the Eugenics at Neuruppin. I went there with my father. My father, however, cased me a lot of grief before by telling me that I didn't want to answer these questions at the Health Office. We came to the Court building. We entered it, and there were three gentlemen in that court room. The one man in the center asked me the same questions again which had been put to me at the Health Office where I had been questioned before.
Thereupon, I asked whether I had to answer these questions. I was told, "Yes." I did not answer the questions because the same questions were put to me again. When the three men there, or at least one of them, asked my father what his opinion was concerning that matter of sterilization, my father, who was a little afraid--he was afraid of the police-said in the end, "Do whatever you care to". That is all.
Q May I ask you, was your father or any other members of his family including yourself, at any time ever members of the Party or any of its affiliated organizations?
A My father and I and my brothers and sisters were in no Party. However, my father was in the Stahlhelm--the steel helmet organization--in order to meet comrades from the First World War. But otherwise, he hated the whole nazi government.
Q Can you tell me whether or not the Health Court at Neuruppin finally ordered your sterilization to take place?
A No. I have said that the questions were put to me and also to my father, then we were permitted to go home. I wasn't told anything.
Q When did the sterilization actually take place, and who, so far as you know, made the order?
A In December 1934, I received a slip of paper from the City. There it said -
Q Excuse me. What city? You say you received a slip of paper from the City. What city? What organization of the city?
A From the Health Office. It was a slip of paper stating that within eight days I had to appear in the hospital for the purpose of an operation. I did not want to go there, but my mother made me. I went there and it was carried out there--that is, the operation. On that slip of paper, however, it said that if I would not appear, they would send the police after me to bring me in.
Q Can you tell me what your physical condition has been since the sterilization operation was performed?
AAfter the operation, I was in the hospital for four weeks.
Altogether, I am physically weak, with continuous pain; at any rate, I became melancholy because I love children and cannot have any more.
Q Just one final word to clarify your present family status. Your married your first husband in what year, please?
A I married my first husband on the 15th of June 1935 at Celle. As I have said before, after we had no success in Wittenberge, we went to Celle and tried to get married there. We had the announcements made and from the Registrar we received a certificate for the Health Office. I went to the Health Office and received the permission to marry immediately without any examination. On the basis of that, we could get married. During the first year of my marriage, I worked at the Schocolade factory, Teidke. Since I did not make enough money I worked at the Spinnhuette in Celle for three and one-half years, a textile firm. But I got difficulties--heart trouble--from the work that I had to do there, and then I stopped working and devoted myself entirely to my child. Then the war broke out. My husband went into the Army. For three and one-half years I worked at the gas precaution school at Celle as a clerk. In 1943, my husband was killed in Russia, and since that time I did not work any more.
Q You're at present remarried?
A Yes. On the 20th of October 1945, I married for the second time in Stuttgart. We also received the permission from the Registrar and were also examined, and there were no difficulties made.
Q You said a moment ago that you stopped working outside of the home and devoted your time to your children. That is the way the translation came through. You meant you devoted your time to your child, did you not?
A Yes, my child.
Q You had one child?
A Yes.
Q That is all of the direct examination. The witness may now be subjected to cross examination.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of defense counsel desire to cross examine this witness? (No answer) Apparently, there is no cross examination. (Dr. Kuboschok nods) It's now so near the usual recess time that we will take up the cross examination upon reconvening.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. KING: With the Court's permission, I would like to ask the witness one more question before cross examination by Dr. Kubuschok.
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed.
BY MR. KING:
Q Witness, you have referred to your child who was born in 1934; the child is now 12 - 13 years of age. Is the child physically and mentally well; are there any deficiencies whatsoever in the condition of this child that you have noticed -- as of the present time?
A My child, from the time of its birth, is physically and mentally healthy. However, he had the childrens' diseases -- scarlet fever and measles; nothing else.
MR. KING: Thank you. That is all, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. KUBOSCHOK:
Q. Witness, you told us about your visit to Dr. Knappe. You described it in detail. You were also asked whether this examination took place also in the Heriditary Health Court. Is it true that Dr. Knappe undertook to examine you, as a member of the Heriditary Health Court. In this capacity, did Dr. Knappe examine you?
A. Dr. Knappe did it on the basis of the marital loan, and on that basis he put the political questions.
Q. What office was it to which you went and where Dr. Knappe questioned you?
A. It was the Health Office, Wittenberge.
Q. You said further that Dr. Knappe had given you a physical examination, and then he put two political questions, and further questions to you -
A. (Interposing) I -
Q. Just moment. I would like to ask you what you have written down there on that piece of paper which you look at all the time when I ask you questions -- before you answer.
A. I have written down the individual points. I discussed the individual points with my husband and he wrote down the individual points for me because it is already 12 years ago that it happened, so that I should know approximately what the dates were.
Q. Tell me, can your husband whom you met only about ten years -after your examination, that is, your second husband, can he help you refresh your memory in any way?
A. I met my husband -
Q. (Interposing) The second one?
A. The second one, and I told him the entire story because I had no one.
Q. Let us go back to my question. After the physical examination, what was the mental examination at Dr. Knappe's office. What was the first question?
A. Dr. Knappe put the first question; he put political questions.
Q. I am asking you what was the first question?
A. Where Hitler was born.
Q. Before, you said that the first question was, "What is your attitude toward Hitler?"
A. Yes, he put that question to me too. He asked me that.
A. I am asking you what was the first question?
A. What I am thinking about Hitler.
Q. What was your answer?
A. Nothing at all.
Q. Before, in your examination, you said you gave an answer.
A. I asked what the political question had to do with the marital loan.
Q. Before, you said furthermore, you started to cry?
A. Yes.
Q. Bood. What did Dr. Knappe say?
A. Why I cried?
Q. No, what did he say, after you had answered -- what the marital loan had to do with your question?
A. I was supposed to keep quite, in fact, shut up.
Q. What did he ask you after that?
A. Then, he put more political questions to me; where Hitler was born, and when he was born. I did not answer those either out of spite.
Q. You mentioned further questions?
A. I cannot remember those any more.
Q. But, before you said he had still put more questions?
A. Yes, those other questions -- the political questions which I told you here.
Q. Before, I understood you to say that he asked further questions, in addition to political questions?
A. Outside of political questions he did not put any questions to me; only the political questions which I have already stated here.