"Our efforts are directed, in joint conferences with the GBA, toward limiting our demands to what is really necessary, in order to make it easier for the GBA, and indeed to make it possible at all to fulfill them. We of the Central Planning cannot do that at all."
This alone, gentlemen, proves if I nay make a remark here that these men got together and said it was impossible to get an accurate estimate of the manpower needs by sampling a few large concerns; you can see with what sense of responsibility this was done. You also see from this statement that the recruitment and provision of these workers was not a matter to be taken up by the Central Planning but exclusively by GBA.
"It is regrettable that the figures are drawn up as of 31 May, and in certain fields, e.g. female employment, they present a false picture. When we receive the figures for 31 May 1944, the total number of female workers will again decline. We for our part, can only check on the figures through sample tests of individual large concerns. We did this in the Junkers-Konzern and have ascertained that it has not even been able to keep the women it had before the war. In other concerns, on the other hand, the number of women increased. Local conditions determine this to some extent. Actually, however, the number of women who are today available for the war economy is not up to the level of what other countries are accomplishing and what we also must accomplish. There are still reserves which Sauckel could still activate. I am thinking particularly of soldiers' wives, who receive an allotment and consequently are not interested in going to work. That is particularly relevant in agriculture."
Gentlemen, that proves that the large numbers Sauckel always claimed, and which were the basis for the judgment on slave labor, were not correct numbers. The Central Planning has ascertained that these numbers were fallacious.
I now turn to Page 31, your Honor.
"MILCH: There is still another problem. Very many bombed out and evacuated women have streamed to country towns, and the question of how they can be drawn into employment has also not yet been settled. The relations between the evacuees and their hosts would be measurably improved if the country people see that the evacuees in the country are not just walking around in fur coats and lipstick, but are also doing something.
No national community spirit will develop from the situation as it is now."
I read that simply so you can see that Milch was concerned with how many Germans they could employ before they employed foreign labor. Their point of departure was not slave labor, but simply some way of meeting the extreme necessity for workers. He also tried, first of all, to find German workers to meet the requirements.
Now I will turn to Page 33 of the English document.
"I don't think that makes any sense. Sixty thousand foreigners, who always entered agriculture seasonally, could be deducted from the 400,000. We should really have the people by the middle of March because otherwise the farmers won't plant potatoes if they don't know whether or not the potatoes will later be grubbed up and gathered. In the first quarter, we shall get back 200,000 men. But we have an agreement with forestry that certain contingents shall remain there longer so far as we don't need the people. So until 31 March we need 200,000 men. In other words, half of our requirement."
Your Honors, you see foreign workers were always employed in Germany. Sixty thousand came into agriculture alone. This proves that the famous statistics of Sauckel, to which the Prosecution referred, namely that 200,000 or so were compelled to work, were an error. Sixty thousand always came to Germany voluntarily to work in agriculture. They were foreign workers.
I continue reading:
"KEHRL: In our presentation of the figures we took our point of departure from the fact that in the first quarter the needs were covered by the people who were returning, so that, if agriculture gets back the 200,000 men and also the seasonal workers, there would be a need for the entire year of 150,000 men.
"BERK: So far as the Hungarians are concerned, other factors play a role. Previously they always arrived, so that we can count on their returning now as well in the same numbers. It is a question of foreign exchange and money. The exchange conditions in the Southeastern region are such that they offer no inducement for foreign workers to come to the Reich. Gauleiter Sauckel has brought up this question with Ribbentrop and asked him to examine the possibility of introducing a more favorable rate of exchange for those sending their wages home. This has not yet been settled."
Your Honors, it was always said, Hungarians wore brought to Germany under compulsion. Here you can see that they came voluntarily. They were expected. There was only one difficulty, namely, how could they send their wages back to Hungary. That was the problem mentioned here. It occurred to no one that there should be compulsory or slave labor. All of this is to be seen from these pages I am reading in this document.
I will read now from Page 16 of the original document, and Page 34 of the English copy. I will leave out the first two paragraphs.
"WAEGER: We have an immediate need of 544,000 men. This need was not just arrived at random, but was determined in agreement with the Employment Offices and armaments offices. Actually, we have received so far only an allotment in the month of January of 13,500 men." Your Honors, you can see from that, that the high numbers which are always mentioned like 4 million etc. etc. were nothing but wishful thinking. "We had agreed with the GBA to place the red cards on another basis. There is no point in handing out 200 red cards when it is clear from the start that they cannot be filled. We had agreed on 27,000 red cards, which were given out for the month of January. But actually, only 13,500 came in for armaments. It is, of course, intolerable for the armaments industry if only half the red cards are covered. In addition, there is the following: according to the statements of the GBA a total of 160,000 have been assigned to industrial war production; but actually we have received only 13,500."
Again, Your Honor, you see what sort of numbers are being dealt with. They are purely fictitious numbers. Of course, if you add all these numbers together, you arrive at a large number. That figure is irrelevant.
"What is the reason for this? In my opinion, the reason is that all the transfers which the Ringe and committees made with us are designated by the GBA as actual allotments. I cannot accept this under my circumstances. That is not an allotment, but a transfer. I can only count on the labor forces which are actually newly allotted to me, either, as previously, the allotment of 100,000 men who are lent to us for a quarter year by agriculture, or in some other way-- men, in other words, who do not belong in the armaments sector. But if transfers take place from one armaments sector to another, that is never an allotment. I should be thankful if the GBA could see to it that a clear distinction is drawn here; for above all it must make a strange impression when the higher offices hear about it, to say; you received an allotment of 160,000 men, where as in reality, we only received 13,500. That would lead to our being told; you are completely saturated with workers in the armament industry and don't know what to do with your manpower. Your demands are altogether exaggerated. Moreover, the normal fluctuation has so far not been reduced. We calculate it at 200,000 men per month. That is an established concept, which so far has not been questioned.
"MILCH: They are included in the 544,000?
"WAEGER: Yes.
"BERK: Is that for the quarter year?
"WAEGER: No, right away.
"KEHRL: Assuming that get the 544,000 tomorrow morning, would you then need some more by 1 April?
"WAEGER: These are my immediate requirements, which I can make accommodate in February right away. It has been objected that if I got the 544,000 men, I could not accommodate them. But that is not true; we could take care of them somehow. The main thing is that I get them. But I am convinced that I shall not. I must report my requirements of men as they actually are, and, as I said, the number 544,000 was worked out in close cooperation with the Employment Offices.
"KEHRL: If we should say, for the sake of argument, that we were in a position to provide 544,000 men tomorrow morning, and you distribute them in accordance with the demands in question, what needs would there still be in your opinion, before 1 April; or would the requirements then have been covered until 1 April; it will still be three weeks, as you know, before they are assigned?
"WAEGER: By no means. There remain only the month of March and the rest of February. I believe that by that time I shall need at least that many again. The monthly fluctuation alone is 200,000, which has to be covered somehow. Then the labor forces for agriculture disappear again, 100,000 men whom we received."
Your Honors, you can see here how numbers were always dealt with, but really without any sound foundation for the manipulation of the numbers. The information was that it might be; however in reality, it was not.
I continue on Page 19 of the original, but still on Page 35 of the English copy.
"BERK: I must take issue with what General Waeger has said. The immediate requirement of 540,000 is correct. Then a procedure for ascertaining the requirements was agreed on between us and the armaments Ministry, and these are figures which are jointly ascertained. But so far as the statements regarding the allotment on only 35,000 labor forces in January are concerned, it is impossible to regard only the newly assigned manpower as allotment. Otherwise, There should we be? You would have to say in each case: General, for practical purposes the 544,000 can only be covered by new manpower, or at least by manpower that comes from other sectors, by combing out commerce, etc. To be sure, a lack arises in another place. That is to be attributed, among other things, to the lack of raw materials, to a change in program, and to shifts within the industry from one sector to another. Obviously this process draws the people along with it. But that must indubitably be regarded as an allotment. I must here seriously dispute the figure 13,500."
You can see again such a number of workers were to be derived from German industry.
"MILCH: You are absolutely right with the word "allotment." The other is additional requirements. That is the number that Waeger wants, labor stocks, or whatever you want to call it. If we discriminate between the two, we are perfectly agreed. The allotments are a coverage of lacks that arises somewhere or other, though, to be sure, this coverage creates a now lack somewhere else. So far as that occurs within armaments itself, it must in turn be covered by allotments somehow. What we want to be able to say is: I need a labor stock of 540,000, and in addition, for the quarter, replacements for the normal fluctuation, which is given as 200,000 per month.
"WAEGER: The labor forces that have to be returned to agriculture, which disappear because their contracts are up.
"MILCH: Only that art is to be called fluctuation which actually leaves the armament sector as a whole, because of death, induction, termination of contracts with foreigners, etc.
"BERK: You think, Field Marshal, that these who change over from armaments to other sectors must also be considered as part of fluctuation?
"MILCH: As actual loss! The word "fluctuation includes so many different processes that they cannot be covered by one word. General Waeger says: What you allot to me in this manner is not an increase for me; it is transferred from Plant A to Plant B and remains within my sector as a whole. But this too, is a sort of fluctuation. In the second place, I lose men because they are drafted, etc. These men should also be replaced. I believe that, the 200,000 men only come under the concept "fluctuation," which was my second concept, not under the first, from Plant A to Plant B. Your allotments, Landrat, consist first of all in those who transfer from Plant A to Plant B, and secondly in those who leave the armaments sector altogether, either by separation from the industry altogether or by transferring to entirely different economic sectors. Over and above this, General Waeger says, he has new requirements, which he estimates at 544,000. In this way such enormous figures come about." 552 Here the large numbers spoken about are simply bookkeeping numbers.
No one at the meeting understands how they could be accrued.
WAEGER: The monthly fluctuation is actually included in the 544,000. But this is the amount which we can absorb in this month immediately, if they are assigned to us by the Central Planning."
I will break off here and go to the bottom of Page 37.
"MILCH: Could not the Planning Office, the GBA, and you, General Waeger, clarify this question of the concepts that we must coin here, in order to make the situation clear, so that we can readily see what "allotment" is or "additional requirements" or "labor stocks" or "fluctuation," etc.? If that is clarified, we have a firm basis for our discussions. I recall the conference with the Reich Marshal on the Obersalzberg, at which several ministers were present and which broke down and came to nothing because of such want of clearness. The statistics would have to be drawn up so as to show that such and such is coverage of missing labor supplies, and such and such is new labor stocks.
"BERK: Gauleiter Sauckel was induced by that well-known conference on the Obersalzberg to draw up statistics, beginning with 1 January, which precisely show the reasons for the fluctuation and are perfectly clearly broken down as to death, incapacitation, termination of contract, breach of contract, transfer, induction, etc.
"WILCH: The statistics would have to include the loafers, too.
"BERK: It will not be possible to determine that statistically." The word "fluctuate" is being brought in without any regard to the slacker. The word "slacker" was simply mentioned, and they said something had to be done about that. Then the matter was dropped. In other words, nothing happened.
DR. BERGOLD: They said something will have to be done about this, and the matter was dropped. In other words, nothing happened at all.
"MILCH: A list of these slackers should be given to Himmler. He would make them work all right. This is very important from the point of view of the people's education, and besides, it has an intimidating effect on others who would like to slack also.
BERK: This point also will be cleared up by the statistics, which by the way, are already being kept, and which are adjusted with the Central Committee and the competent agency.
KEHRL: By this improvement of the basic figures is restricted only to the decreases. A corresponding method should also be chosen for the allotments. I could imagine that actually figures and concepts are arrived at which all speak the same language.
MILCH: It is important that these clear concepts be established, not only for us but also to the gentlemen higher up. I want to tear out by the roots the fluctuation, which in part is natural and in part bad. But we can only do that when we have absolutely clear conditions and figures. Therefore, my request is to consider loafing in the same way as illness, etc."
You see, the purpose of that question of this treaty was simply to have a true conception of the statistics, and it makes a striking or shocking statement of what had to be put on it, in order to find some way of encumbering the records statistically. Continuing:
"Gauleiter Sauckel is justly proud that his Gau Thuringia has a very low sickness rate. Sauckel had already worked on that in peacetime, and educated the people there accordingly. In other Gaus this question did not receive such attention. We must differentiate between Germans and foreigners, men and women. The reasons for the higher sickness rate should be examined. Perhaps the food supply has an unfavorable effect. In other localities perhaps the doctors are too lenient. They must receive the necessary instructions. In other places education through propaganda is necessary, so that the importance of this work is always demonstrated to the people. The Propaganda Ministry can help us especially here, and has already achieved great results wherever it took a hand."
The problem again is how he can keep the requirements at an economic level, and how can these people be fed, and so on.
I'll skip again. Page 35 of the original, which is page 43 of the English Document Book:
"ALPERS: Especially in the rural districts we again and again experience the fact that in basic production, in agriculture and forestry, we are lacking everything. We have no boots for our people in the mountains. Without these boots the people are not in a position to work. On the other hand one sees repeatedly that large organizations, the Wehrmacht, Labor Service, OT, etc., are equipped with everything. We have no support in any way. I only wish to remind you that at Christmas for the first time the farmers received a liquor ration.
MILCH: That is the same even in armaments. In one and the same plant, if a man works on armor he continually receives food packages; if he does twice as much work an airplanes, he receives nothing at all. What Hayler and Alpers say is absolutely correct. Such wishes are justified. All these questions should be compiled and brought to a reasonable denominator."
Your Honor may concede that the defendant Milch tried again and again to do the very best he could for the workers. He is not a strain -- or strict slave driver.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take a short recess, Dr. Bergold.
THE MARSHAL: This Tribunal will recess fifteen minutes.
(Recess)
DR. BERGOLD: If it please the tribunal, I continue on page 47 of the original, page 43 of the English document book:
"Milch: That does not prevent us from combining all these matters here. The question of what demands can later be filled depends on what can be produced at all. Your work here is the most difficult, namely, the procurement of the people. That is more difficult that the distribution later on. If one knows what he gets, then he knows also what he can distribute. These various things must be regulated from a central viewpoint. We need everything. We can not wage a war without armament, nor without soldiers. So along that line, an adjustment has to be made later in accordance with the Fuehrer Order. We do not need to do that today."
Gentlemen, this shows you the meaning of the meeting. One wanted to determine what it looked like. It all depended on what was really coming up. This was talk back and forth, but no decisions were taken. There was only an attempt to have a clarification so as to know in one's own mind and to make the decision as to what the situation was like.
I then continue on the following page, Page 48 of tho original, Page 45 of the English document book:
"Doubts have already been expressed that the high requirements announced can be covered in that amount. Before I give you a survey of the quota which can be expected in the first quarter, perhaps also in the entire year, I ask you to permit me to present our plans briefly. The starting point for it was a conference with the Fuehrer on 4 January 1944. In this conference the demands were established at a total of 4,050,000. It was determined as fellows:--"
Your Honors, that is the figure which is contained in the compilations that we saw in the document shown in the photostatic copy.
"It was determined as follows:
"2,500,000 were intended for the maintenance of the employment stability and for covering the fluctuations. 1,300,000 was given by Reich Minister Speer as the requirement of armaments. This amounts to 3,800,000. 250,000 are expected by the Fuehrer for industrial relocation and for the construction of air raid shelters and air raid protection measures. This amounts to a total of 4,050,000. This figure is also established in the transcript which Reich Minister Lammers has sent to the departments concerned."
Your Honors, you Trill see that for air armament nothing is provided. Speer made specific demands as replacements for fluctuations, which means that they were to be shifted from one work to another.
I skip several things and continue on page 53 of the original, page 59 of the German, page 48 of the English document book, in the second paragraph "a further problem":
"A further problem, which was already discussed, is the question of the increasing production in the factories themselves, especially the reduction of loafing and illness, etc. The proclamation was issued to the managers, which was signed by the Staatssekretaer and Minister Speer, and in which the managers were asked to direct their attention to this question. Experience lias shown -- I remind you of Siemens -- that a very well organized health system in the plant itself can considerably reduce the sickness rate. At Siemens the sickness rate decreased by 3 per cent. Figured in terms of workers, this amounts to very high number.
"Kehrl: Successful measures in this field would contribute enormously to covering the shortage. Three per cent are 300,000 men."
Your Honors, you will see that the figures which are discussed do not state that it is tried to bring up slave labor. It is merely a discussion of what can be done to increase the output of the available manpower. It is stated that by immediate treatment of the sick by competent physicians, 300,000 men who otherwise would be out could be restored to industry." I continue:
"Berk: This question is of enormous importance. We need here the energetic support of the plants themselves. The same applies to the problem of production increase. We are convinced that there are still enormous production reserves in the plants. It is a fact that some people are not fully utilized. The reason for that may be that they had to wait for a program, that the raw material did not arrive on time, or that the system of the shifting of contracts was not clear. There are workers idle. That is where the well known communications and letters from foreign workers originate, saying that they are standing around without work. Or German women report this who bring work along to the factories. I do not wish to generalize from that in any way, but these things come to us. The whole question was brought up by gentlemen who are outside of our plants.
"The question of re-examining the plants has been raised. Minister Speer has given this his attention in order to mobilize production."
Your Honors, foreign workers write, "We have too little work. We are standing around idle. If these people had been feeling badly or if they had felt themselves to be slaves, they would not have written "What's the matter, we have no work." Only satisfied people can do that, in my opinion
THE PRESIDENT: Is it possible that they were German workers?
DR. BERGOLD: No, "That is where the well known communications and letters from foreign workers originate."
THE PRESIDENT: It speaks of German women.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, German women, but in principle of foreign workers. "This is the origin of the well known communications from foreign workers who say that they are standing around without work." German women say something different. They report about their own work which they bring into their work as, for instance, knitting, darning etc. That is what they are speaking about.
Wilch continues:
"I believe that something should finally be done now for a fair piecework wage. This means that the man, if he really produces more, can also make more money, without the National Trustee of Labor (Treuhaender der Arbeit) saying that it is impossible.
"Berk: This is a problem of the so-called wage-regulating measures."
I skip the rest of the paragraph and continue with Milch:
"let us assume that a worker produces today 100 pieces an hour at such and such a wage. We want him to produce approximately 115 to 120 pieces for the same wage.
He should, however, be able to produce 130 to 140 pieces, if he goes to it. Then he should receive more. That is apparently, first of all, a wage ceiling for the worker. But if through agreement, training, or education, we can influence the worker by saying to him, 'You can easily make more money; your increased production now is due to improved machines and organization; that is no incentive for you, because piece work wage rate was wrong; if you have the right one, you can exceed it', then we can achieve something by giving his personal willingness the additional inducement of a wage increase."
You will see that in such a way it is being tried to increase the work by granting higher wages.
On the next page, I continue, page 58 of the original, 50 of the English Document, the third paragraph before the last one:
"WILCH: We can then deduct from the 2,000,000 approximately 1,000,000 as a fictitious fluctuation.
"KEHRL: I would suggest that we discuss this question in the smaller circle. The difference between real and fictitious fluctuation is very decisive in the figures which were stated by the various sources. Even if we do not know the extent of the figures, we shall gradually, by means of the new statistics, arrive at a knowledge of it.
"MILCH: Let us leave the question open, how high it is. But even today we must reduce by a considerable amount the figures, in the amount of 3,500,000 which were indicated for the second to fourth quarters. The exact number would be determined. We would then arrive at a total of approximately 3,600,000. These would actually be men who would have to be brought into the work process from the homeland and abroad, who actually have to be introduced anew.
"(BERK: That is how Gauleiter SAUCKEL sees it!) But the transfers between the plants were not included. This would also facilitate the task of bringing them in."
He declared that this number was still too high. I continue on page 59 of the original, the same page, page 51 of the English document:
"KEHRL: I have asked some friends of mine to establish in their plants, when preparing the statistics, how much was real and how much fictitious fluctuation with them in the last year. Yesterday or the day before yesterday I received a statement from a longer concern. According to that, the fictitious fluctuation in the last year was, with the great majority of the plants, in accordance with what was estimated here. The fictitious fluctuation, no doubt, is also larger in industry than in transportation and agriculture. It is different in the individual groups.
"MILCH: That is the point which caused all the misunderstandings. Sauckel said, 'I brought you eight million people.' We asked, "Where are they?
', because we always figure the entire personnel of the plants. The statistics of the employment offices are important but not relevant for these figures."
Here, the defense establishes these figures which were mentioned there; they are all erroneously given by ----- (Kehrl?) It is continued:
"BERK: The coverage of the fluctuation is received by us as a requirement. Therefore the coverage is an allotment.
"WAEGER: Not for industry. Of what use is it if it is assigned on paper and figured as an allotment?
"MILCH: It is really ah allotment. Assume, for instance, that a factory has 100,000 men on the first of January. On 1 July the factory has 98,000 men. For us that is a minus of 2,000. In spite of that there can have been allotments from 20,000 to 30,000 through the real and fictitious fluctuation. You say now, 'I allocated to you for this plant 30,000 men.' That is perfectly correct. We say, 'We did not get them.' That is wrong. We only know we went down from 100,000 to $8,000. That means we lost 2,000. We take only the balance, whereas you take the individual transactions. If this is once formulated correctly, wonderful clarity results."
This is due to the fact because the people are constantly being shifted from one factory to another one. All these fluctuations are not covered by actual figures. They arc only figures for statistical reasons. I continue. I'm skipping something. On page 61 of the original, page 32 of the English:
"WAEGER: I still want to mention the complaints which wore made because cf the letters of the foreigners. It has been said that workers were being hoarded in industry. We were very grateful that the GBA turns those matters over to us. "With regard to the aviation industry, we did the following: Field Marshal Milch gave us permission for a Luftwaffe officer to take part in it. There were furthermore a representative of the GBA and a representative of the Ruestungsdienststelle. We made a lightening-like inspection of the factory, The received permission to talk to the individual people who said that this factory was hoarding men. It appeared that every thing was subjective opinion and that it was not true.
If, for instance, a worker wrote that he had steal around and had had no work. That was the case on three days because the supply of raw material did not arrive because air raid damage occurred and because the feeder industry could not deliver the material on time. Such cases were used by these people and, in fact, they are people who want to go home. We had twenty cases investigated. It turned cut that it was not the ill-will of the workers. There was, in fact, something in it, but it lay in another field.
"MILCH: Those are still the mild cases. Most of the cases which I have to investigate are such that the person concerned is dissatisfied with his rating and treatment, that he says that to take revenge. He writes to any befriended man of the party or to anybody else nothing at all is done here, there is no organization. There is loafing. I can see at once what the plant has produced, with how many workers and with what means it has worked. In such eases it always turns out that the person concerned only wants to cause trouble for his foreman or plant engineer.
"BERK: I did not make any reproach but have only shown the problem.
"WAEGER: However, you have expressed the opinion that output reserves which are not being utilized are still present there.
"MILCH: Let us say honestly, that is the case everywhere because it is not possible at all to make use of people to the largest possible extent. The leading industrial personnel is lacking for the best personnel we had has been drafted to the Wehrmacht to a very large extent. Certainly a big mess will fellow. And certainly there should be a possibility of proceeding differently, that is, if at any time somebody engaged in the work should complain -
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honor please, we're not getting anything in the English.
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honor, I just noticed that the translation, for which I am not responsible, would make of certain passages of my original -- . Evidently that, happened in the Translation Division. They were very pressed for time.
Perhaps I do not know how I can take care of it technically, because I can't tell the Translation Department how to do their work.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Denney, do you raise any objections to this untranslated portion being read?
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honor please, I have no objections to the reading of the untranslated portion, if we can got a translation from the interpreters as ho gives it and if at a later time Dr. Bergold Trill give us a certified translation from the Translation Department.
THE PRESIDENT: How much of this material is there?
MR. DENNEY: About 15 lines.
DR. BERG0LD: Your Honor, it is not entirely one page.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead ad and read it.
DR. BERGOLD: "Consequently it is not possible to exploit every foreigner entirely" (reading from "about 15 lines of untranslated portion" previously referred to).
MR. DENNEY: Your Honor, it isn't coning through -
DR. BERGOLD: "- I too am in favor of human rights, but we must have moans of acting against foreigners who show passive resistance." This has already been read to the Tribunal, but I just want to get it into the context.
"In the case of a plant foreman touching a prisoner of war and slapping his face, however, a terrible rumpus is raised immediately. The man is put in prison. There are a groat number of people in Germany who believe it is their principal duty to stand up for human rights Either than for the war production. With this I do not agree. But when a Frenchman declares: "You boches will all be hanged", then the plant foreman is first taken off the payroll, and when he then says: "I'm going to slap him in the face", that's his doom. There is no protection for him, only for the poor guy who has made that statement. I have told my engineers; "If you don't slap a man like that, I'm going to punish you. The more you do in this regard, the more I'll praise you. You will not be punished, I can assure you of that." This has not yet become generally known. But I want to see the one whom I catch, because I an able to take care of anyone who wishes to be caught by me. When the little plant boss does this, he is put in the Concentration Camp or he faces removal of the prisoners of war. In one case two Russian officers stole a car and started out in it. They tried to escape. I have immediately ordered the hanging of the men. They have been hanged or shot yesterday, I left that up to the SS. I was said to have hanged them in full view of time others. In the end, there always fellows a big mess and there is sure to be somebody who exerts his influence for the PW's. At any rate, if we had better losing personnel and a better coordination, we would be a.t once in a. position to produce mere, particularly if the regulations directed against malingerers were made more rigid.
"BERK: At first , one would theoretically divide the four million into four quarters.
Then one million would fall to the first quarter. Of course, this cannot be. The program was not decided on until January. Quite a number of measures are necessary in order to get it started. The first quarter will be the most difficult. Nevertheless, I believe I am in a position to say, with certain reservations, that for February and March together we can count upon a figure of about 500,000."
Certainly there would have to be somebody who would have to stand up for human rights. If this man had not done it himself, he certainly would not have spoken of it. But ho spoke of this natter where the fear of his own religion interfered and ho made a statement on that and it was said in Germany ho criticized it in strong language. Certainly it would be followed by dismissal because he had been warned by the Fuehrer not to say anything against the Fuehrer. Illogical, because another sentence would have followed "We would have been immediately in a position to produce better -- stick together to make it all one... hold ..."
Evidently the minutes are contradictory, not clear, and were subsequently corrected. Later - I am trying to do it, I hope to be able to do so; however, I am 564 A offering these documents to give you a clear picture of this case and hope to be able to show for certain that the decision in this case was not made by the defendant but by the Fuehrer himself without the defendant's knowing anything about it; on the contrary I will show that he had trouble, and because he was afraid of the consequences he had the record changed; but, considering the entire document, one sees that something is wrong with the thing; it is just like an Arabian erratic block in a meadow in spring.
Your Honors, I will have to road the exhibit which refers to the Central Planning Board. I now pass it up as Exhibit No. 12 and the Organization Plan at the beginning of my book, page two of your copy. I shall pass on the photostat of this speech as an original. It is dated when Speer was not yet in the Armament, placing orders. It shows the real spirit of this man:
(Reads) You will see how kind this man acted solely in the interest of collaboration. This is not the way a slave driver acts or speaks; rather it is an equal speaking to equals and striving for good neighbor collaboration.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, the Tribunal is convinced your request for an adjournment is a reasonable one. The Court will, therefore, be in recess until next Monday, February 3rd, at 9:30 AM.
DR. BERGOLD: I thank your Honors for your groat understanding.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess until 0930 hours, February 3, 1947.