But if I have to provide you with real workers who will prove efficient in Germany, then in France -- and that was just my program -- we must do the same as we did in every German plant and in every German enterprise; when a German company is split in two, some of the good workers and some of the bad ones had to be given up and not just the bad workers. And French armaments never were harmed thereby. It is a fact, is it not, that a French worker of quality produces the double amount if he is put in a German factory under German discipline, with German supervision and German welfare?
"If we agree to re-examine all S-plants -- and that is all I ask -and if we take out all superfluous expert workers and assistant workers, then we put them (a) at the disposal of the other French enterprises which need them to the extent that they need them, and when they are satisfied, I (b) have to request that if I am to carry out my program, then for these plants, too, workers must be transferred to Germany. If that is not approved of and it is insisted that the severe formula be observed -- S-plants are out of the question for labor commitments to Germany -- then, according to my experience, this program of January 4 can hardly be achieved."
Your Honors, that was the program which the Fuehrer had drawn up according to which four million workers were to be sent to Germany.
He continues:
That is the responsibility you have to bear and which I shift from my shoulder. I was told: why did you not take the Russian workers away in time, now they are in the Russian regiments. Exactly the same would happen here. My opinion is that the introducing of S-plants was altogether a great mistake which is damaging to the general interests of Germany. The French government jumped to that with the greatest cleverness." I shall skip a few sentences. I shall continue at the bottom of the page after he had explained how he wanted to get the workers. "That is the way we did it the first year, and up to 700,000 Frenchmen came to the Reich according to the program. These were all decent trench workers. From the fall of this year on this came to an end. No more skilled French workers came, nor any others either. It was the entire collapse of the labor commitment built up the slogan: From now on no worker needs to go from France to Germany," You see that Sauckel here, in this famous conference, was acquainted with the fact that Speer and Milch wanted to bother him, and made it impossible to get labor in France, and that they protected the foreign laborers there, both from recruitment and drafting.
"KEHRL: May I briefly explain the point of view of the Minister. Otherwise the impression might be given that the measures applied by Minister Speer are incomprehensible or senseless and I would not like such an impression to be created. To us, the affair looks as follows: The assignment of labor for German purposes in France was of comparatively modest proportions up to the beginning of 1943, because the extent of the shifting over of production was limited to a few things with which the German capacity could not cope and beyond that to a few main industries. During all this time a great number of French volunteers have come to the Reich through you.
(SAUCKEL: through compulsory recruitment too)" Kehrl continues:
"The compulsory recruiting started when the voluntary recruiting did not longer produce enough."
"SAUCKEL: Among the millions of foreign workers who came to Germany 200,000 came voluntarily."
Your Honors, you can see that that interpolation made by Sauckel was being debated in order to introduce an objection, in order to see that Speer was not right, because he himself said that hundreds of thousands had come to France on the basis of contracts. In other words, it's a discussion interpolation which is derived from a certain reason, regardless of the fact whether it is true or wrong, only in order to defend Sauckel before the plan of Speer and Milch.
"KEHRL: How much pressure was used, is a question I don't want to go into. Anyway, the recruiting was voluntary in its form. After this voluntary recruitment did no longer have results, the system of drafting according to age was adopted, and this had rather good results with the first age group. At least 80% of that age group were taken and sent to Germany. This started last year around June. In unison with the military development in Russia and the conclusions drawn from it by the western populations as to the development of the war, this drafting of the age groups had considerably less results as proved by concrete figures, that is, the men tried to avoid the drafting Germany according to age, by either not coming at all, or by not reporting for departure, or by leaving the train on the way. When they found out from first attempts of this kind in July and August that the German executive authorities were not in a position to or did not want to lay hands on those eluding their obligations, and either imprison them or take them to Germany by force, the willingness to comply with this drafting decreased to a minimum and only rather low percentages were thus drafted in the various countries."
Your Honors, you can see from this that even in France the age group drafting, on the basis of labor assignment of the labor assigned, according to the law of the French government, was not considered a compulsory measure. But the people did not come in spite of those laws, and they finally found out that the German executive office did not compel the people to come to Germany, then they didn't come at all. However, I shall continue: "However, these people fearing that the German executive authorities might be able to track them, did not go to French, Belgian, or Dutch enterprises, but hid in the mountains where they were befriended and sheltered by small partisan groups 1003a which were there.
The consideration which originated at that time with Minister Speer and which led to the arrangement with Bichelonne was the following: If I cannot transfer the people by force from France to Germany to the extent necessary, which is shown by developments now, and if at the same time I run the danger of having the people leave the plants in which they are now working . for fear of being taken by force, then it is a lesser evil for me to try and put these people to work in France and Belgium, in which case I do not have to use German force to get them across the frontier. Then at least I am sure that the people arc not running away from the plants Am the first place and secondly that additional employment will be brought there."
I shall skip a few technical words concerning the agreement with the Bichelonne. "So far Minister Speer had chiefly shifted to France all the urgent armament productions in these fields in which the German capacity was insufficient. Now he said: I will not only shift to France, but I will also shift really important war production, which is carried out at present in Germany with German labor, so that I can release German labor in Germany And have this production carried out in France, Belgium, and Holland. There is sufficient capacity in this field in France and labor is also available in sufficient numbers. Therefore a large part of the work can be accomplished there and I can release the people in Germany. Thereby I am serving two ends: in the first place I am setting free German labor and secondly I am utilizing the French workers who are not working at all now because industry is at a standstill. And there is still a third factor, that Frenchman will be ready of their own accord to carry out such production as serves the welfare of the civilian population, because with such work they are no longer in danger of air raids and they are not working directly for the war, So that they will net be considered as traitors to their own country, but are working for the advantage of their own country.
"This development has been encouraged in the meantime. The time is still too short to make any definite statement as to the results. In some fields the results are already quite exceptional. In some instances we have transferred up to 50% and more of the total German requirements to the best and the manufacturing is done there."
The last paragraph of this page: "The idea in fact is this: to carry out there the work which up to now has been done here and to release thereby German labor. There is yet another reason for this. It has been pointed out by you time after time, Gauleiter, that in these sections of industry, it is not easy to change the workers. According to the Fieldmarshal's description of the situation, there is especially a lack of managers and supervising personnel in the works and only German workmen can be considered for such, and every worker, even if technically he is not so suitable, will serve for purposes of management supervision and will lend some backbone to the plant.
"As regards the question f the S-plants, Minister Speer put the following question to Minister Bichelonne: are you in a position to provide the labor for such an extensive shifting program, which involves a certain risk? to which Bichelonne, from his standpoint quite rightly replied: if the people are not running away into the woods for fear of being deported to Germany; I shall get them to work in French plants. From this discussion there resulted the idea of protected plants which, as you said, were supposed to represent a protection against Sauckel. Whoever is there is working for Germany and may not be deported to Germany. You" - Sauckel -- "said that those plants worked like a suction-pump. That is just what they were meant to do. Labor was to be drawn in with a suction process so that the plants were full to capacity and should work for us. The existence of the S-plants cannot and may not be undermined. It is backed by the German promise which was given in all solemnity and which was supported by the signature of my Minister."
Your Honors, you can see very clearly what these two other men want. They want peace. They want peace among the foreign workers, and they want to protect these workers before Sauckel. That Germany needed a number of goods which had to be produced is clear, but they were to be produced in France on a voluntary basis by Frenchmen. Sauckel's reply to this is very interesting. It's on page 1835 of the original, page 12 in the English.
"May I again draw attention to the matter of volunteers and to the entire process of the employment of French labor. There was never any program carried out in France on a voluntary basis, but the programs have been carried out for the TODT Organization, the building of fortresses in France, on the one hand, and for the assignment in France to the plants working for Germany and also to the plants working for transferred industries according to concrete agreements which I made with the French government, on the other hand.
The French government fulfilled these conditions last year. It appointed people for the Western fortifications and for the Atlantic fortifications, it appointed people for the plants and it appointed people for Germany. In the fall of last year, towards the end of summer, Laval declared for the first time that he was not going to send any more people to Germany and from then on only very few Frenchmen arrived in Germany."
That was from the direction of the French industries. You can see how Sauckel likes to distort the facts in order to fight against the struggle of Speer and Milch, and that he is not afraid to say lies, in order to reach his aims. He contradicts himself, because before he said hundreds of thousands came back on the basis of contracts, namely as volunteers. I shall conclude reading this documents
DR. BERGOLD: Now, as I conclude the reading of this document, I will next refer to "page 1843" of the original. I read as follows:
"TIMM: Will it not happen that the offices making the demands any one day: but we know that in the French plants there is an excess of skilled workers which cannot be justified?
"MILCH: That should be discussed again later with Speer himself. First Speer must have a survey of what has happened as the result of all his agreements."
Your Honors, you can see that this meeting of the first of March was presided over by Milch more or less as a representative of Speer, and that Speer reserved to himself the final decision. Speer was sick at that time. That has been already cleared up. And therefore Milch only carried out the discussions which Speer had scheduled beforehand for himself. It was clear that the whole session was devoted to the clearing up of the situation.
I next refer to the document already mentioned, "From the FuehrerMinutes 1982, points of discussion from the Fuehrer-Conference of the 21 and 22 April 1982, quoting Speer, concerning the feeding of the Russian prisoners of war. This is on page 7 of the original, the last paragraph. This will be my next exhibit number, and it is on the following or next page after the one I have already read. It is marked page "13" at the bottom, and as I have already pointed out I believe, is from the Fuehrer-Minutes of 1942, and I quote from the discussion at this conference, (page 7 of original, last paragraph) Speer speaking:
"20. The Fuehrer explains clearly in a long argument that he does not approve the bad nutrition of the Russians. The Russians must absolutely be given sufficient nutrition, and Saucek has to see to it that this nutrition will not be guaranteed by Backe.
BY DR. BERGOLD: So you see, from this, your Honors, that this was saying that Sauckel was pursueing the wrong measures, and it was being done despite the orders of Himmler and Milch was not present nor did he assist The next document I shall refer to is from the "Fuehrer Conference on 30 May 1943" concerning the working of Russian prisoners of war in nines.
This will be Exhibit No. 33.
BY THE PRESIDENT: "33"?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, your Honor. ("From page no. 278 to 280") of the original. Your honors, I would appreciate it, if you would look at this record; on the right hand side you will see a number of names, namely: "Schieber, Pleiger, Sauckel, Backe, Keitel, Waeger". As to those who were involved, the left hand side of the page always stated the names, and under point "19." it shows who had received a copy of the various points, because he was responsible for it, and he had to do the work. In other words, those are the Fuehrer's records cited by the Prosecution and the only person concerned is the one whose name is mentioned on the left hand side of the document. I shall read number "19". "The coal situation causes the Fuehrer to call a meeting of Pleiger, Sauckel, Backe, and Reitel with him. At this meeting there shall be discussed the sufficient allocation of labor for the coal district, the procurement of Russian prisoners of war from agriculture and industrial wareconomy (as far as they are employed as assistant workers) against replacement by other workers from the Ukraine, Poland etc. Furthermore it is intended to improve the nutrition of the German miners, if possible, still more then up to the present. The Russians shall get abundant additional rations, which will be distributed by the manager of the plant on the basis of efficiency.
Apart from this the Germans - and especially also the Russian prisoners of war - shall receive a compensation for special performances, in the form of tobacco and similar things. From page 14, that is as far as I will read. You can see that orders were always executed to these people, properly to give an additional quality.
I am introducing those documents, my reason being to refute the Prosecution's claim and to show so far as Milch was concerned that these things did not happen; that it came under the other organization, that of Sauckel.
That is the reason I will read number "20."
Here, again, you can see the names on the left hand side, and your Honors will note that Milch is actually mentioned here. This is on page 15:
"20.) The Fuehrer desires that in areas which will certainly be often attacked by enemy planes (Ruhr District) (Krupp-Essen) about 100 to 200 projector batteries be installed, which by way of experiment, fire numerous rockets at the altitude of the enemy planes, which has been ascertained. Part of these rockets will unfurl wire when they detonate. The Fuehrer expects to obtain important and net only psychological results from concentrated attacks on such objectives through concentrated un-armed mass-fire. Milch and Dernberg have to voice their opinion on this subject.
BY DR. BERGOLD:
Your Honor, in order to protect the homeland. I will now offer this document No. 124; this will become Exhibit No. 34. This is "From the Fuehrer-Minutes of 6 January 1944, concerning Speer's report on the French Labor situation. That is the record which was read at the session of the Central Planning Board of the 16 February 1944 and the 1st of March. These records were the ones mentioned before. Those of the 6 January 1944 "Fuehrer-Conference of 1 to 4 January 1944 (number 8) (Page 3 of the original)":
"The Fuehrer has been informed of the differences of opinion with the Plenipotentiary for the Allocation of Labor. According to my arguments the principle thing is to exploit the industry of France for Germany to a larger extent, in order to be able to locate there about 1 million additional workers. In comparison with this Sauckel is of the opinion that first of all workers have to be brought to Germany.
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honors, you can see on the left hand side of the marginal note: "Kehrl Waeger" but Not Milch. "The Fuehrer explains that in his view the transfer to France is of extreme importance, be it only on account of the possibility to increase the production of iron connected therewith.
In spite of this, in his opinion, one cannot do without bringing additional French labor to Germany. It must therefore be attempted to find a happy union of both things. In this connection, he proposes to designate protected works in France, in order to induce the French to work in these plants,.... through the pressure of allocation of labor for Germany. He affirms again upon my statement, that the protected plants have already been established, the importance of this institution and the necessity to create here a basis of long range confidence. He thinks that it is my affair whether I will be able to do without French Labor or not; Sauckel would be only happy if I would do without them. (page 4 of original) Upon my reply that not only this is concerned, but that also the question of the executive power is involved, since otherwise a loss of prestige for Germany and a disorder in the allocation of French Labor would be inevitable, the Fuehrer declares that this is, of course, one of the most important bases for further discussions. I then told him that on 3 January there will be a meeting between Himmler, Keitel, Sauckel and myself (Kehrl) (is the Foreign Office to be included?), at which these problems will be discussed. Subsequently there shall be a meeting with him, at which the possibility of executive power in France, as far as the allocation, and the transport of French workers to Germany is ccncerned will be laid before him. (Kehrl to do advance work, that we also make a claim for executive power for the protection of the factories in France against partisans.)
I shall now proceed to another document; namely a written statement made by Karl Wolff, of 21st November, 1946, which will become Exhibit No. 35, on page 18 of this document book. Karl Wolff -- he is the man who was mentioned here repeatedly under the name of Wolffie; dear Wolffie.
MR. DENNY: If your Honors please, I object to the admission of any statement by Wolff because there is great doubt as to the man's competency at this time; he was in London as a British prisoner; and later, I believe he is now in Italy, and I don't think that this statement should be admitted. We may be able to get a statement from the British medic I authorities as to his competency; however, at this time I do not think it should be accepted.
THE PRESIDENT: Is it a question of his Mental competency last November?
MR. DENNY: Yes, your Honor. If the Court wanted to take it provisionally to save time, I have no objection at all.
THE PRESIDENT: I think we are obliged to do that; if it appears later that this is a statement from an incompetent witness, it can be stricken; but I can't anticipate that showing.
MR. DENNY: Very well, sir.
DR. BERGOLD: I am now introducing this statement because I am afraid that Wolff, who was granted me as a witness, might not arrive here in time; if he is in Italy now, I don't believe they will get him here in time for this trial; but I'd rather have him here.
I shall read the document; "Karl Wolff, London, 21 November 1946. Subject; Low Pressure and Freezing Experiments in Concentration Camps.
"Having received knowledge of the documents in the possession of the court, and after the following exhibits have been submitted to me and I have read them.
16 March 1942 Letter Wolff to Hippke 7 May 1942 Letter Hippke to Wolff 20 May 1942 Letter Milch to Wolff 20 July 1942 Letter Rascher to Brandt 25 August 1942 Letter Himmler to Milch 31 August 1942 Letter Milch to Himmler 3 November 1942 Letter Himmler to Milch 23 November 1942 Letter V. Herff to Wolff 12 January 1943 Letter Sievers to Wolff 4 February 1943 Note Sievers to Brandt Basic Idea and Basic Direction of the Experiments.
"In this case it becomes so complicated that of the two men responsible to be clarified as Himmler and Rascher, a primary condition is to be taken into consideration in order to give the right value to the extraordinary strong tendency of Himmler to all his new experiments; and all the fields of science and life; and also, the peculiar background of his personal relationships to Dr. Rascher's wife.
"Aside from the fact that Himmler concerned himself with all the question of race, of increasing the German birth rate and its quality, was the German Lebensraum (Vital Space) policy in the East as well as was Aryan-Germanic excavations, constant experiments were one of the most beloved hobbies of the Reich Fuehrer SS Himmler. This letter tendency went from the extreme ideal to the extreme material field. Below I shall quote a few typical examples out of greAt number. (last word inserted with pencil).
"Every soldier and ex-service man has to admit that the abolition of locks in the barracks of the SS, which Himmler decreed for the Waffen SS was a revolutionary experiment on the basis of the SS basic law of the holiness of property. In the cultural field also, he had experiments conducted until the SS factory Allach for porcelain succeeded in producing friedericianic and SS horsemen of which the moving horses were carried only by their two logs exactly as it is in reality, without the artificial support under the belly of the horse which otherwise was always needed even by the most famous manufactures for techno-statical reasons. With regard to the experiments in the field of mental science, suggested by or ordered by Himmler, the president of the "Ahnenerbe" and, SS Ober-Fuehrer Processor Wuest, former dean and director of the University of Munich is the best man to give information. But Himmler was also constantly active during the war as an untiring initiator sponsor, full of imagination, where the improvement of food, clothes, equipment, health, and sports in the SS were concerned. (1 word inserted with pencil).
"Thus the introduction of the old Germanic oatmeal porridge against all resistance based on the difference of taste, instead of the morning coffee which had become a tradition in the German armed Forces, as well as the serving of milk, an excellent cheap mineral water in the S. S, canteens, in order to reduce the consumption of beer, etc.
, are his, Himmler's achievements. Also, during the war, the production and use of vitamins and calorie concentrates for the Waffen SS and even for SS mothers and SS children before the Armed Forces introduced it. Furthermore, the invention of the camouflage umbrellas, camouflage jackets, and camouflage suits, which, to the envy of its comrades in the Armed Forces, the Milch had become a tradition in the German Armed Forces, as well as the serving of milk, and excellent, especially cheap mineral water in the SS canteens, in order to reduce the consumption of beer, etc.
, are his, Himmler's achievements. Also, during the war, the production and use of vitamins and calorie concentrates for the Waffen SS and even for SS mothers and SS children before the Armed Forces introduced it. Furthermore, the invention of the camouflage umbrellas, camouflage jackets, and camouflage suits which, to the envy of its comrades in the Armed Forces, the Waffen SS had for a long time as first and only unit in front assignment, as well as, in October 1941 in Russia, real winter fur clothing. Further achievements of Himmler are the developing financing of the first German amphibious automobile, and promoting and practical application of new natural remedies with the SS and his own circle of friends. (Magethepathia, applied by Setzkern, Berlin, and massage of the whole nervous system, applied by the doctor of natural medicine, Felix Kersten, Berlin-Hartzwalde.)
"That Himmler during these experiments did not refrain from including himself or his subordinates in the SS; that is proved already by the fact that in peace time he already introduced the obligation, for every member of the SS who was not excused fully by medical certificates to pass the sports exams for the Reich Special Insignia. He, himself, forced his untrained body in a month long strenuous training to pass this exam in spite of the fact that he was not a sportsmen at all, and in 1936 he obtained the insignia at the same time as I. In 1938 and 1939 he wanted to replace this insignia by an SS sport insignia with harder conditions including an additional test of courage consisting of a parachute jumping from an airplane.
JUDGE MUSSMAN0: What has this long econium on the great virtues of Himmler got to do with the present issue?
DR. BERGOLD: I just wanted to read the most important part, as Mr. Denny was not quite sure as to the mental condition of the man. I want to show how he explained all those experiments and I just wanted to skip a few pages.
I shall now read from the continuation of page 2 of the original:
"The idea of Himmler's concerning these experiments: this showed the relationship of the Reichsfuehrer SS with Rascher's wife Mimi Diehl."
I shall skip a few sentences here: "I only know that she was a 'persona gratissima' with Himmler in the pattern of whose prejudiced opinion the fact fitted in excellently, 'a woman of good race even of 48 to 49 years, as demonstrated by the example Rascher can still produce in quick sequence three well formed children.! I deem it impossible that at that time there existed any unlawful intimate relations between Himmler and Mimi Diehl-Rascher."
I will skip a few more sentences; I shall continue on page 3 of the original, page 22 of your Honors, he said: "that these children which were born of this woman were stolen from other people." This just shows what this man Rascher was: "The spiritual father of the idea to carry out such experiments in a concentration camp was the Stabsarzt in the reserve of the Luftwaffe, Dr. Rascher. I knew from the preliminary explanations given to me by Himmler when we drove together from Munich in a car to Dachau which we went to see a demonstration on some low pressure experiments at the end of 1942, February, 1942."
I skip a few more sentences, which are not important, and I shall continue on page 3 of the original, page 23 of your Honors the underlined sentences: "Therefore, Himmler was altogether responsible for making possible the execution of the experiments in the concentration camps, while Dr. Rascher was the executive law. I shall continue: "Right after the arrival in the concentration camp, Dachau, Dr. Rascher started with his experiments. About 10 prisoners were standing in front of their barracks. They looked quite detached and one after the other they climbed willingly into the low pressure chamber which was built into an automobile. Each experiment took only a few minutes, in accordance with the height that was imitated and with the normal falling speed of the human body. After they had left the low pressure chamber it took the prisoners only about two minutes until, lying on a blanket on the floor of the barracks, they had recovered from the short 1015a endurance test.
After that, in the knowledge of what they had just achieved they became actually confiding None of them were political prisoners, they were all rightly and lawfully declared to be unworthy for military service because of a strong criminal record.
"They emphatically assured Himmler in my presence that in this manner, after a request to get a chance to prove their value at the front had been rejected, they had at least made a voluntary, modest contribution for Germany with their own persons, and that thereby they wanted to prove their good-will which really existed. Thereupon Himmler promised then to use his influence with the Fuehrer to obtain their release and the front assignment they wanted.
I shall skip a few sentences and then I shall proceed with the continuation of page four of the original part that is translated:
"As far as I recollect I have gained no knowledge from Himmler of from any other sources of the fact that the later on low pressure experiments, for instance, were carried out on inmates, on a non-voluntary basis. I had no part in any freezing experiments whatsoever. The office I held at that time, responsibility and position taken with regard to the low pressure and freezing experiments."
I shall skip one paragraph and shall continue on the reverse of page four of the original:
"During the period of the experiments in the concentration camp, in other words, from the 1st of May until the 18th of February 1943, I was, it is true, in a leading position. However, I had no active part in the conducting of the experiments or in the reports and expert work on them. This work was assumed by Dr. Rascher, /Dr. Romberg, Sievers and Dr. Rudolf Brandt."
This is on page four of the original--the reverse of this:
"For the rest of it I have only signed, in the best of faith, and according to orders given by the Reichsfuehrer SS, the few requests sent to me by the responsible exports Sievers and Dr. Brandt."
For the information of these orders which had already taken place by Dr. Rascher apart from the low- pressure as well as his assignments of the Luftwaffe to the SS within the framework of his duties. I shall skip a paragraph.
"As in general, the Reichsfuehrer SS signed only letters addressed to persons of his own rank, it was to me that on his orders--a year long custom, occuring almost every day--the letter to Generalloberstabsarzt Dr. Hippke of 16 April 1942 was sent, together with other mail, for signature. This letter, 1017a the photostat of which has been submitted to me, has obviously been drawn up and written in the office of Sievers, Ahnenerbe, consequently neither by myself nor by my personal reporter, Proff: