Your Honors, I wish to show through this that the large plants were as a matter of fact, only planned but never built and that Milch had nothing to do with this, aside from saying that if the capacity was built, that he could use it.
I come now to Exhibit No. 60. It is document No. 1666 PS, Page 48 of Document Book 2-b, of 27 March 1942, Hitler's order defining Sauckel's authority. This decree is to be found on the first page of this exhibit.
"Decree by the Fuehrer concerning a Plenipotentiary General for the utilization of labor of 21 March 1942.
"In order to secure the manpower requisite for the war industries as a whole, and particularly for armaments, it is necessary that the utilization of all available manpower, including that of workers recruited abroad and of prisoners of war, should be subject to uniform control, directed in a manner appropriate to the requirements of war industry, and further that all still incompletely utilized manpower in the Great German Reich, including the Protectorate, and in the General Government and in the Occupied territories, should be mobilized.
"Reichstatthalter and Gauleiter Fritz Sauckel will carry out this task within the framework of the Four Year Plan as Plenipotentiary General for the utilization of labor. In that capacity he will be directly responsible to the Commissioner for the Four Years Plan.
"Section III (wages) and Section V (utilization of labor) of the Feich Labor Ministry, together with their subordinate authorities, will be placed at the disposal of the Plenipotentiary General for the accomplishment of his task.
"Fuehrer-Headquarters, 21 March 1942, the Fuehrer, Adolph Hitler:
I turn now to document -- it received no exhibit number by the Prosecution. It is, however, in the document book as PS 1292, Page 60 of the second Document book of January 4, 1944; Page 60 of the document book.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Number 50 in the Prosecution document book. Exhibit 50.
DR. BERGOLD:Then I made an error. This exhibit consists of two parts, and I made a mistake. I beg the Tribunal's pardon.
I read from Page 102 of the German Document Book everything that stands under the date b January 19bb at the beginning of this document, 1292. It begins, "concerning, utilization of labor, 1944."
THE INTERPRETER: Again, Your Honors, only that second part is in our document, that part that, as Dr. Bergold said, the Prosecution submitted.
DR. BERGOLD: Again then I shall submit this part that I am reading to the Court later. I quote:
" Re: Utilization of labor, 1944.
" 1. There was a conference today with the Fuehrer at which the Plenipotentiary General for the Utilization of Labor Gauleiter Sauckel, the Reich Minister for Armaments and War Production Speer, the Chief of the OKW General Field Marshal Keitel, General Field Marshal Milch, State Secretary Backe who was entrusted with carrying on the business of the Reich Ministry for Food and Agriculature, the Reich Minister for the Interior, SS Himmler, and I were present."
"I" in this case is Dr. Lammers. " The Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Reich Economy Minister asked before the conference that they be allowed to participate, but the Fuehrer did not permit it. As an introductory remark the Fuehrer stated: I want to know for sure: 1, how much manpower will be needed for German war production, a, to maintain current capacity, b, to increase current capacity, 2, how much manpower can be found in the occupied territories, or, by application of correct measures, can be obtained in the German Reich for increased production "On the other hand, therefore, we have to cover losses in manpower through death, sickness, continual fluctuation in manpower, and so on, and further also we have to find additional and new manpower."
In the German text, page 3--page 104, General Field Marshal Milch stated that particularly in agriculture many women who actually were capable of working did not work because they received an allotment for their husbands who were in the army, and if they worked their pay would be deducted from this allotment as dependents so that they thought, in their primitive fashion, that they were working for nothing.
"On the other hand, here we must stop deducting wages from the dependent allotments, and on the other hand, it must also be determined that the women who refused to work will then not receive any dependents allowance, or at any rate, will receive a smaller one. The Fuehrer adopted no position on this question, saying that he did not want to enter into details."
This, Your Honors, is the meeting of the Central Planning Board about the four million fifty thousand workers, in which, as I have herewith established, the Fuehrer stated for the first time that four million additional workers were needed. I have already read the minutes of that other meeting.
I come now to Exhibit 56, Document 3819 PS. It is Lammers' report on the Hitler conference of 11 July 1944, I read from the first list of those attending, because the Prosecution was of the opinion that Milch had been present.
The Prosecution came to this conclusion on the basis of the plans of participation in this meeting, which did not actually take place. I read Page 74 "list of proposed participants in the conference on 11 July 1944.
1) Deputy for four Year Plan, Staatssekretaer Koerner.
2) Reichsminsiter des Innere Staatssekretaer Dr. Stuckert.
Chef der Sicherheitspolizei Kaltenbrunner.
3) Reichswirtschaftsminsiter: Reichsminsiter Funk.
Ministerialdirektor Dr. Michel.
4) Reichsminister der Finanzen: Reichsminister Graf Schwerin von Krosick.
5) Reichsminister fuer Ruestung und Kriegsproduction: Reichsminsiter Speer.
6) Vertreter der Wehrmacht: Vertreter des Chefs des OKW:
General Warliment.
Begleiter Oberst Meistner.
Vertreter des Generalquatermeisters Heer:
Ministerialdirektor Sarnow.
Vertreter des Bevollmachtigten Generals Italien:
Staatssekretaer Landfried Vertreter des Chefs Stabes:
Oberst Hahn Fuer den Militaerbefehlhaber Frankreich:
Chef des Stabes: Oberst von Listow und Ministerialdirektor Michel.
Fuer den Militaerbefehlshaber Belgien/Nordfrankreich:
Chef des Stabes: Generalmajor Heider und Militaerverwaltungchef Reder
7) Reichsminister des Auswaertigen: Staatssekretaer von Steengracht Botschafter Rahn Botschafter Abetz
8) Reichsminsiter fuer Ernaehrung und Landwirtschaft: Reichsminister Backe
9) Partei-Kanzlei:
637-A Staatssekretaer Dr. Klopfer.
Ministerialrat Froehling.
10) Deutsche Arbeitsfront: Reichsleiter Dr. Ley.
Begleiter: Pg. Bandol.
11) GBA: Gauleiter Sauckel.
12) Oberster Kommissar Alpenvorland:
Gauwirtschaftsberater Bilger Leiter des Arbeitsbereichs Arbeitseinsatz Dr. Parl (oder Stellvertreter) 13) Oberster Kommissar Adriatisches Kuestenland:
Oberregierungsrat Dr. Kohlhasse.
That is the entire list of participants. It is to be observed from this that, contrary to the allegations of the prosecution, Milch was not present.
Now, from English Document Book 20. This is Exhibit No. 54, Document No. NOKW-017, apparently the last document in the book. Dated 25 March 1944, a speech at the conference with Air Force Engineers and Chief Quartermasters and Milch, on page 109. That is the famous long speech in which Milch allegedly made many wild remarks, which I already announced to you by my own document this morning, of 20 March, and which is my own documentary exhibit number 14. I read from this speech on page 188 at the foot of the German Document Book. It will be hard to find. It is in the German Document Book, the fifth page - or rather the sixth page. It begins roughly "Unfortunately there are exceptions."
THE PRESIDENT: Do you know the page in the German document?
DR. BERGOLD: No, I cannot inform the Tribunal of that because, Your Honor, that is not indicated in my document book. Your Honor, I have found the page. It is on page 6 of the German book, page 6 of the original. It is on page 115, that is the English document book, the sixth line above the last paragraph: "Unfortunately there are exceptions for which the Wehrmacht sector is responsible."
THE INTERPRETER: The Doctor is marking the passages which read "Because it would be difficult to find each one of the."
DR. BERGOLD: Page six of the German document, of the original, that is the page.
THE INTERPRETER: I believe that Doctor Bergold is misinformed. I think it is page seven.
DR. BERGOLD: It begins at about the end of the page.
"Unfortunately there are exceptions for which the Wehrmacht sector is responsible. The Wehrmacht does not work as smoothly and beautifully as civilian offices. It is an error to believe that civilian offices are more bureaucratic than military offices. On the basis of my continuous and extensive experience I can assure you that exactly the opposite is true.
"In brief, the people arrive there and are put to work there. If any doubts exist as to whether a request is justified or not - for the people are not requested by numbers, but as electricians, blacksmiths, fitters, turners, as unskilled laborers, as foreigners - then this is settled. If it is found that the request for people is not justified, then the matter is referred to a commission, and this commission examines the facts within 24 hours. If it becomes apparent that dirty dealings are going on, my special court martial is called into play and it hands down a quick decision."
Your Honor recalls I said I would call a witness who will testify that the defendant had no power of the sort that is said here. This is just a part of his wild expressions which he made in order to spur on the other workers. He did not have the power to summon a court martial.
Then on page 9 of the German original, I quote: "Gentlemen,--" I come now to the detailed individual points. This is a short section, perhaps I can read it into the record anyway, so we can continue.
639-A "Gentlemen, I come now to individual questions.
Here is the most important question with which this present meeting is also concerned, that is to make the cooperation directly and indirectly within the Luftwaffe decisive; what we want to give you gentlemen is a very wide and strong program."
On page 10 now of the German original. Page 118 of the English Document Book, the top paragraph beginning with:
"Gentlemen, the most urgent and important question is the following Due to the heavy air raids on our plane factories, supply depots and similar things, have been hit to an increased extent, and in many cases destroyed. We all know that the keeping of reserves for the troops was very difficult because of the farspread fronts and the often inexpressibly stupid understanding of the troops for Germany's interests. The spare parts which had to be ordered from the supply organization of the Quartermaster General -- he received most urgent requests -- were already very many. Their request for spare parts alone amount at the moment to -- Ceyka, help me! (Ceyka: 4.2 billion) -- to 4.2 billion spare parts requests have been given to the German Industry. You know what 4.2 billion means. It is so mad and crazy that one can not quite imagine what it means. You realize that we are dealing with tremendous figures here. I was once a captain and Squadron Commander (Staffelkapitaen) myself, and it was my greatest pride that I head everything. For my squadron of twenty planes I had 500 or 600 mangetos, 1000 sets of rubber tires, etc. I am quite willing to admit that. Only I believe that just such idiots, as I was at that time, still exist today. If we do not stop this, if we do not stop this exaggerated keeping of supplies, and change it immediately, then the war will be lost through the idiocy of these people! Do not expect a captain or a major in the field to have understanding of what it means to have too many supplies.
I will skip a few sentences. It starts with the last three words on Page 118. I am skipping one sentence only.
"He is not in a position - technically alone - to do so, and he relies entirely upon the foreman who is always the bigger dope in this field. Such a foreman hoards spare parts, etc. enough to supply entire squadrons for the next ten years. That is his ambition."
Now I skip seven sentences and continue: "You have to find out everything for yourself, who has too much of what. You must say to your Air Force Commander and your Corps Engineers: Whoever hoards supplies must be punished immediately. By punishment, I also mean shooting, for if these people are told what is at issue here, and they still try to hide parts of their supplies or to cover them up, that is dirty dealing and a crime against Germany."
Your Honors, I shall prove through General Roeter that he never gave any order that they should ever be shot. They were words on his part. He always pardoned those who are condemned to death.
THE PRESIDENT: We have reached the hour of adjournment. Before we adjourn the Tribunal holds, that there will be no failure on the part of the court reporters or the interpreters to have someone assigned to the taking of testimony tomorrow.
MR. DENNEY: Your Honor, I wondered if I might take one member of my staff in there with me tomorrow.
DR. BERGOLD: I have no objection.
THE PRESIDENT: Of course. The court will recess then until February 5th, the day after tomorrow.
DR. BERGOLD: One question, Your Honor. Is it permitted that the defendant be present?
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honor please, with reference to Dr. Bergold's request that a defendant be present, these are in the nature of interrogations and I submit that I see no reason why he should be there. He is ably represented by counsel, and I'd like to call the Court's attention to the fact that this man is a Field Marshal in the Luftwaffe and held a very high position 641 I don't know what his relationship with these people are and I don't see anything that would be served to help the case by having him there, and it certainly won't prejudice him if he is not there.
He will certainly be ably represented, and a member of the court is there.
DR. BERGOLD: Quite true. I quite understand Mr. Denny's point of view. However, if we were heard here during the intermission, he could exchange remarks with the defendant as to what other questions should be put, which if he is to be interrogated as we now have it planned, he cannot do.
MR. DENNY: He can, certainly. Judge Musmanno had a recess the other day and if Dr. Bergold plans to take all morning as is indicated, he will have such time at noon, and certainly Judge Musmanno would be willing to give him a little time at the end to go out and clear anything up.
DR. BERGOLD: That is quite agreeable to me.
THE PRESIDENT: I think opportunity will be given Dr. Bergold to consult his client during the taking of the testimony and that will be sufficient. The defendant will not be present.
DR. BERGOLD: Then I should like to have it arranged that I might be able to speak with my defendant briefly during the noon pause because as it is according to the regulations of Major Tiech, I cannot do so without special permission. Perhaps Major Tiech would be so kind as to permit that, that at noon I might speak briefly with the defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if the Major isn't so inclined, the Court will direct him to afford you that opportunity. The Court will recess until the day after tomorrow, February fifth at nine-thirty.
(The Tribunal recessed until 5 February 1947, at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of American, against Erhard Milch, defendant sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 5 February 1947, 0930-1700, Justice Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable Judges of Military Tribunal No. 2. This Tribunal is again in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the Court.
DR. BERGOLD: (Attorney for defendant Erhard Milch).
May it please the Tribunal, the day before yesterday I read from Exhibit No. 54, of Document Book II C, Document NOKW 017. This is a long speech by the defendant which he held in front of the Fleet Engineer and Quartermasters General. It was shown from the various passages which I have read were difficult to find for the interpreters. I have now succeeded to trace the speeches in the English document book. I shall, therefore, offer the number of pages, in the English document book, of the passages which I have read.
The first passage was from page 115 of the English document book, and it started: "There are unfortunately exceptions," up to the end of that paragraph.
The next passage was on page 118 of the English Document Book and it begins: "Gentlemen: The most urgent and important question is the following:" It went to the point of "millions of substitute spare parts."
I shall now read from page 120 of the English document book, from the passage which says: "It is certain that in the whole period up to now, too many spare parts have been requested just in order to gather such hoards. And this in spite of the fact that not everything has been reached by far, but only very large stocks. I should like to say, with the material that you have, 20 to 30,000 could be newly built or newly equipped without further ado." This is as far as it goes.
Page 122 of the English document book, it begins: "Gentlemen:
In this connection I may call your attention to another important point. If I visit an office and find out that something is being hidden there, then I ask for the death penalty for such a crime today. That is a fraud. That is sabotage of the German armament industry." I shall show later through testimony of General Roeter that he had absolutely no authority to do this.
I shall continue on page 124; it begins: "It is a story in itself anyway, how idiotic the experts at the front are; in what an idiotic manner the work is often carried on in the entire military machine." On the same page, after the prosecution has read the sentence, it begins: "The soldiers are not in a position, as experience has shown, to cope with those fellows who know all the answers. I shall take very strict measures here and shall put such a prisoner of war before my court martial. If he has committed sabotage or refused to work, I will have him hanged right in his own factory. I am convinced that will not be without effect." It will be confirmed by General Roeter that this, too, was impossible.
I shall continue: "Anyhow, the strangest things occur in the treatment of workers. It is said that the people collapse and then one has to find out that they have a furlough of three or four days every eight weeks. That is dirty business of the first order and treason to the country. Then perhaps a construction battalion arrives and is supposed to be put to work. The commanding officer, perhaps some over-fed grade school teacher, declares that the man must drill and must take part in sports. Damn it, the fellows are there to work so that the maximum amount of work will result. One has to act very strictly here. There was a construction battalion ordered to Regensburg. The Commanding officer was one of those scholars who said he could not billet the men in peace-time conditions; therefore, he refused to start work. Such a guy should be convicted by a court martial and hanged."
Then I continue on page 126; which begins:
"Gentlemen: How stupidly we act and how much we harm our own cause is evident not only in the field of spare parts but also in that of machine tools."
And now I continue on page 129, where it begins: "Because between our people and the people of the troops there are certain difficulties which are apparent to everybody and which could give rise to discord. Perhaps some over-fed boy comes from the troops. He leaves already at four o'clock in the afternoon to visit a girl which he has somewhere in the vicinity, and to whom he makes love. He may have all kinds of decorations on his belly, and has a rather arrogant air at the workshop. There the civilians are standing; the civilians would have been on the shift since five o'clock in the morning and would get away only after eight or nine o'clock in the evening; in addition to this, there is also the lower pay. Here it is possible, if one does not put matters right immediately, to produce a bad morale permanently. One has to iron out these differences as quickly and as smoothly as possible. The quartermaster general and GL have already agreed that we are to balance the personnel. Also above all, it is necessary that the members of the troops be treated in exactly the same way as the industrial workers. It is an inadmissible situation when such a young fellow, hale and healthy, stands around idly and does not have any real work."
I continue on page 140 of the English document book. It begins: "There are no laws of bureaucracy, there are no regulations, there is nothing at all as important as the task of winning the war. The Jaegerstab is charge with the coordination of all the possibilities which lie in the Speer Ministry in order to aid the Luftwaffe armament industry. At the moment the one big aim of all these efforts is to banish the one big weapon, the one threat which is before us from the air and to bring it into line. The second is the question of the front, first of the Eastern Front, Southern Front, and possibly, if an invasion comes, another front.
All of the work in Germany, even for the land front, is futile if Germany is forced to her knees from the air in the next few weeks."
DR. BERGOLD: Page 152, the address by Mr. Von Seidel: "Field Marshal, I am very grateful that today's meeting took place, because, as far as I know, it is the first time during the war that all of the Chief Quartermasters and all of the air force engineers have met with the Gentlemen of the GL and with the only recently created Jaegerstab. I put high hopes in this meeting inasmuch as the offices which are not directly subordinate to me now realize what is at stake. I am convinced that the field offices, too, the commanding authorities, will co-operate in the same way in which the offices immediately subordinate to me have co-operated earlier and since the beginning of the Jaegerstab with industry, and that they will accomplish whatever is humanly possible, for the importance of the entire operation. Defense of the Reich has now become apparent to every child. That difficulties occur with the troops, especially in the subordinate offices, is just as obvious as difficulties in subordinate industry with one of the other little men. I ask you to be convinced that we, for our part, shall do everything that is at all humanly possible in order to help the troops in such a case.
"Milch: My dear Seidel, I thank you very much. I also thank all of the gentlemen from the auxiliary airfields. We are slowly turning into roughnecks. I can say that quite openly. I personally am happy that for once we can do that. For sometimes we were foaming at the mouth with rage, because everything could not be done and was not allowed, and that at a time when history is weighing us, whether we were up to the job or not. I hope that you personally will take enthusiasm, which we have now away with you, and that you can free yourselves from this terrible foggy atmosphere, this bureaucracy which surrounds us all. That you, too, will now say: all right, if those fellows now act crazy, we shall play along with them, not in order to do something stupid, but in order to set up something sensible. Gentlemen, the pleasure alone of punching the bureaucrats in the nose incites me to work twice as hard as before, and I believe, the way you are built, you will do the same.
"We do not want to overlook one thing; holy bureaucracy, represented by the mass of all the civil servants, is a burden which is so soft --you can **ess into it wherever you want, you never meet any resistance -- but also it ***o tough it is absolutely unbelievable; it always spreads out again, just when you think it has disappeared and release the pressure.
There are only a few governments and a few people in the history of the world, that we know of, where one of them once succeeded in tackling this gang. One has to attack them, in a united group, however. Their only strength is their stupidity, laziness, smugness, imbecility, which they all have in common. But we, as leaders, will have to teach them that now. We shall pinch them in the body till it hurts.
DR. BERGOLD: So far as this speech is concerned, you can see the purpose of this meeting. He wanted to expose these shirkers with these words, which he himself calls tough phrases. That's what he wanted to do. Now, Document Book 3-B of the Prosecution. I can't find it in the English Document Book. In Document Book, which is also not quite clear, it's on page 98. It seems to be an extract from the 21st meeting of the Central Planning Board, R-124. Perhaps I can help you by giving you the number of the page. It's page 1059. It's a speech by Speer on the question of Shirkers. It's page 1059 of Document R-124. In the index it's indexed as the 21st meeting.
It begins:
"SPEER The question of shirkers is another point which we must deal with. Ley has stated ---
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, what you are reading does not appear in the English Document Book. We have the minutes of the 21st Conference and we have page 1059 of the document, but in our document book Milch is speaking, not Speer.
DR. BERGOLD: That must be a mistake in writing. I am not 100% certain, but I examined that passage and it was a speech by Speer. There is also a speech by Milch on the same point, but this was said by Speer, and he testified to that fact as a witness.
THE PRESIDENT: The point is, we want to have a copy of what you are now reading furnished to us later to put into the document book.
DR. BERGOLD: I understand that, but I think that you have the passage. May I see the English document book?
I have received it from the Prosecution, and I shall bring it as I brought the other passages the day before yesterday, from the document book of the Prosecution and shall submit it to the court.
THE PRESIDENT? You will see that we get a copy of what you are about to read.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, sir.
"Speer: The question of slackers is another point which we must deal with. Ley has stated that, where there were factory doctors and people are examined by these doctors, the figure of illness lowers by 1/4 or 1/5. SS and police could easily be rough here and arrest the people who are known to be slackers and send them to concentration camps. There is no other way. It need only happen a few times and everybody talks about it. 10,000 --"
This is Page 1062 in the German Document Book. "10,000 men fluctuate. You may suppose that half of them fluctuate with justification. The other half may be slackers. These slackers he have exactly the same way in the Army, the Navy, etc. They go from one office to the next. These anti-social elements should be given heavy work, and whoever runs away from that, will be sent to the concentration camp. That the police can do with its present force."
I shall now read Sauckel's speech which follows. I will read one sentence which begins, "The Fuehrer said this." The tenth line.
"This is what the Fuehrer said. If the French are not inclined to do so willingly, I shall recall the 800,000 prisoners of war. If they are well disposed, the French women may join their husbands in Germany and 649 work there."
That points out, Your Honors, that first of all at least 800,000 Frenchmen volunteered to go to the Reich because it was agreed that for every French volunteer they were given, one prisoner of war was to be released. At least 800,000 Frenchmen went voluntarily to work in the Reich in order to take over from there prisoners of war, and the figure of Sauckel of 200,000 has been proved to be incorrect.
Secondly, if Hitler later ordered forced labor, this happened because the prisoners of war were released conditionally. That is to say, in case of an emergency in France they could be recalled. Likewise from France German prisoners of War are also released conditionally by the French.
I shall now turn to the last book from which I shall read today. This is Prosecution Book 4. It is Exhibit No. 48D, R124, Hitler conference of 7 April 1944, and I shall read from Page 75 of the English document book the passage which begins -- it is after the figure 17 -"suggested to the Fuehrer."
"Suggested to the Fuehrer that, due to lack of builders and equipment, the second big building project should not be set up in German territory, but in close vicinity to the border on suitable soil, preferably on gravel base and with transport facilities, on French, Belgian or Dutch territory. The Fuehrer agrees to this suggestion if the works could be set up behind a fortified zone. For the suggestion of setting this plant up in French territory speaks mainly the fact that it would be much easier to procure the necessary workers. Nevertheless, the Fuehrer asks that an attempt be made to set up the second works in a safer area, namely in the Protectorate. If it should prove impossible there, too, to get hold of the necessary workers, the Fuehrer himself will contact the Reichsfuehrer SS and will give an order that the required 100,000 men are to be made available by bringing in Jews from Hungary. Stressing the fact that the building organization of the Industriegemeinschaft Schlesien-Silesia was a failure, the Fuehrer demands that these works must be built by the O.T. exclusively and that the workers should be made available by the Reichsfuehrer SS.
He wants to hold a meeting shortly in order to discuss details with all the men concerned."
That is the conclusion of my reading from the document books. I have quite a few documents which I shall submit for the record later on. Nor will I now read from book 5 of the Prosecution, which is the whole complex of the Dachau experiments, because I want to deal with that in connection with the witnesses I shall call in. I hope I shall have the Court's permission to do so. I would then, if I may, call the witness Koerner.