The Fuehrer requests, however, that the attempt should be made to erect this second structure in a considerably safer area, namely in the protectorate. Should labor not be found there, the Fuehrer proposes to contact the Reichsfuehrer SS personally and require him to procure the necessary 100,000 men or so, by making available a corresponding quota of Jews in Hungary. The Fuehrer wants a meeting to take place at short notice at his headquarters for the discussion of details in the presence of the men concerned. Besides insuring the day by day bottleneck in the JUNKERS works the immediate task of the Central Building will be to plan and insure the production of the ME 262 at the rate of 1000 units per month and of yet another fighter at the rate of 2000 units.
"Heil Hitler" /s/ Speer Our proof as presented in the next documents, will show that the thousands of workers needed for this gigantic construction program, were furnished primarily by the SS and consisted of concentration camp inmates and Hungarian Jews.
The immediate supervision of the Jaegerstab project was undertaken by SS Gruppenfuehrer Kamera of the Jaegerstab, and Exavier Dorsch, of the notorious Todt organization. Dr. Shlemm, a member of the Jaegerstab was especially designated as Dorsch's deputy. The Tribunal will see, from succeeding documents, that Shlemm periodically informed the Jaegerstab, both orally and in writing, of the progress of the work. Kemmler also rendered written reports, and in addition, both Kemler and Shlemm were active participants in meetings of the Jaegerstab. The Tribunal will recall that, in his speech of the air force engineers, the chief quartermasters, which is Prosecution Exhibit 54. I previously made reference to this, Document NOKW 017. The defendant Milch reported to Shlemm and Kemmler as among the leaders of the Jaegerstab. This reference is at page 17 of English Document 4, page 19, in the German book.
The next document, which the prosecution wishes to introduce is NOKW 372, which is an affidavit by Fritz Schmelter, the man whom the defendant named in his speech of March 1944, chief of Labor Commitment for the Jaegerstab. Reference is again made to prosecution Exhibit 54, page 17 of the document book -- that is, the English-- page 19 of the German; this is Prosecution Exhibit No. 73. This is at page 101. That is the Schmelter affidavit of the English Document Book.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. King, what was Exhibit 72?
MR. KING: I stand corrected, Your Honor. This is English Exhibit No. 72. This affidavit is dated December 9, 1946. It is clear from the affidavit that Kamera's chief source of labor was concentration camp inmates received through the SS, while Dorsch utilized the Hungarian Jews and other foreign labor. I shall read the affidavit in full.
"I, Fritz Schmelter, swear, state and declare: That from around January 1944 to April 1945 I held the position of Ministerialdirigent in the Reichministry for Armament and War Production (Speer Ministry); that as Ministerialdirigent I directed the Department for employment and distribution of labor, and from December 1944 to April 1945 I directed the Central Department for Employment and distribution of labor, and that on the basis of the first position I was a member of the Jaegerstab.
"1. That the Jaegerstab was founded on or about 1 March 1944; that Speer and Milch were the mutually responsible Chiefs of the Jaegerstab.
"2. That the air-raids in the beginning of year 1944 made it necessary to decentralize the airplane factories by transferring them in part to above surface localities and in part to subterranean localities.
"3. That the entire program of decentralization to above surface localities and the construction of subterranean installations was directed under the jurisdiction of the Jaegerstab; that the direct supervision of this Jaegerstab construction program was exercised by SS Obergruppenfuehrer Kammler and by Stobbe-Detleffsen and later by Xaver Dorsch of the Todt Organization. Kammler was a member of the Jaegerstab and Dorsch was represented in the Jaegerstab by his deputy Schlemp. Both Kammler and Schlemp reported at regular intervals to the Jaegerstab on the progress of their work: Kammler in written reports and Schlemp in both oral and written reports.
"4. That Kammler utilized concentration camp prisoners placed at his disposal by the SS in order to carry out his share of the Jaegerstab construction program; that Dorsch used foreign workers, part of whom were Hungarian Jews, to carry out his share of the Jaegerstab construction program.
"5. That Milch, as one of the two responsible Chiefs of the Jaegerstab, personally directed, ordered or approved decisions made in the interests of Jaegerstab-Undertakings.
"6 That the aforementioned facts are personally known to me and to be sure by virtue of my position and responsibility as member of the Jaegerstab."
Sworn and signed, "Fritz Schmelter, Nurnberg, 9 December 1946.
Kammler's part in the construction program, and his use of concentration camp personnel, are also referred to in the next document, which the Prosecution wishes to introduce. This document is NOKW-320, and there's an excerpt from an interrogation of Sauer, Chief of Staff of the Jaegerstab, dated November 13, 1946. This is Prosecution Exhibit No. 73 and is at page 103 of the English Document Book 4, and page 105 of the German book.
"Q. Were special factories built after the creation of the Jaegerstab?
A. All building of factories above the ground was stopped, and subterranean factories were built. We divided approximately 30 factories into 700 individual workshops, to avoid offering targets for attacks.
Q. What kind of workers were used for this construction?
A. The construction was divided into three parts:
the two Kammler parts
a) new construction underground
b) expansion underground and the OT part.
Q. This expansion program was directed by Kammler, then?
A. Parts a) and b) were directed quite independently by Kammler. He had full authority from Goering as of 4 March 1944 and was then made a member of the Jaegerstab.... The whole affair was carried out by Kammler alone.
Q. And the workers who were used for this purpose were concentration camp prisoners?
A. To my knowledge, they must have been concentration camp prisoners."
DR. BERGOLD: May it please the Tribunal, I should like, to protest against the submission of this affidavit, in its present form. It is evident that an extensive part of this affidavit has been omitted, and I should consider it correct if the entire affidavit would be submitted, so that I could ascertain whether a meaning can be devised from those parts omitted; which would place the entire document in a different light.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it is the rule, isn't it, Mr. King, that if you use part of a document for your own purposes, that the opposition is entitled at least to see the entire document?
MR. KING: If Your Honor please, we intend to furnish Doctor Bergold with the complete interrogation. We've had some difficulty in getting our documents together and we weren't able to locate the complete interrogation as of last evening.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR. KING: If Dr. Bergold wishes to waive the usual 24-hour notice, we'll introduce it at this time; otherwise we'll suspend and introduce it tomorrow, or within any period within which he has had the usual notice.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if you do not furnish him with the entire affidavit, the Tribunal will hear his objection to this portion of it again. We'll suspend decision on the admissibility of this portion until Dr. Bergold has been furnished with the complete affidavit.
DR. BERGOLD: Thank you.
MR. KING: The next document which the Prosecution would like to refer to is No. 3720 PS, and is again a part of Prosecution Exhibit No. 68, which Mr. Denny introduced previously this day.
This document was introduced into evidence before the INTERNATIONAL MILITARY TRIBUNAL and is an excerpt from an interrogation of Albert Speer and we will notice here that a reference was made regarding the use of the 100,000 Hungarian Jews which were furnished to DORSCH.
This testimony is at Page 118 of the English Document Book Four; at page 117 of the German. The part which I would like to read starts with the fourth line down:
"Q. Put your mind on foreign Jews. Did you use these for forced labor in Germany?
"A. As far as foreign Jews are concerned, Hungarian Jews were used in the building program.
"Q. And when was that -- in 1944?
"A. Yes, that was in 1944."
MR. KING: There, we have the testimony that REICHSMINISTER SPEER, as a Chief of the JAEGERSTAB, would undoubtedly be in a position to know that Hungarian Jews were used in the building program.
The next document which the Prosecution wishes to introduce, is NOKW447, an affidavit by Xavier DORSCH, who was apprised of one phase of the JAEGERSTAB program. This is Prosecution Exhibit No. 174, and is found at Page 131 of the English Document Book, and on page 128 of the German.
DORSCH himself states that he used Hungarian Jews in the construction program; in detail, states, that the JAEGERSTAB through Schmudt and other liaison officers was fully informed of the progress in the construction and the questions connected with it. This affidavit states in part, starting from the sixth line from the bottom on page 131 of the English Document Book:
"Also, as far as I remember, there were about 3,000 Hungarian Jews employed on the construction site Kaufering. The Jaegerstab was informed currently about the progress of construction and the questions connected with it by SCHIEMM, and later by Dipl.
Ing. KNIPPING and EWARLD who worked in the Jaegerstab as liaison engineers."
325 (a) I might say that this affidavit is in DORSCH's own hand and written by a man who would be in a position to know the tie-in between the JAEGERSTAB and the Construction Program; and of the amount of MANPOWER there employed.
Despite assertions that DORSCH and Kammler acted independently, the MINUTES of the Jaegerstab discussion show that the members were fully informed that KAMMLER and DORSCH were utilizing slave labor in the construction program labor sites. The minutes of the Jaegerstab meetings which I will presently introduce, show that the JAEGERSTAB not only consented to the utilization of this labor bub encouraged its use, its evident to aid in the procurement of such labor that Dorsch and Kammler used all the means placed at their disposal.
The first document which the Prosecution wishes to introduce in this series is NOKW-338, which is a part of Prosecution Exhibit No. 75, and I might add, for the benefit of the TRIBUNAL, that all of the minutes of the Jaegerstab meetings which we shall introduce, are included as part of General Exhibit No. 75. The reference is at page 135 of the English document Book Four; and on page 132 of the German.
This is an excerpt of the minutes of the Jaegerstab meeting of March 17, 1944. I might add, that this meeting was held at the Air Ministry, and presided over by the defendant Milch. The minutes record his active participation in the meeting, and the excerpts which I will presently read show that the Jaegerstab was furnished labor by Kammler and that concentration camp labor was used in the construction program.
For identification purposes the participants in this discussion were Stuba F. Detlerson, who was plenipotentiary for construction in the Reichs Ministry for Armament; that is, the Speer Ministry; Sauer, who was chief of staff to the Jaegerstab; Dorsch, who represented the Volks Wagon Works, Nobel, who was in charge of repairs for the Jaegerstab; and the defendant Milch.
This is at page 135 of the English Document Book; 132 of the German. The excerpt opens with a statement by Stobbe Detleffsen: "....We already reckon on 100,000 men for the task of the Jaegerstab; to transfer them would mean breaking into the rest of the armament economy to an unheard of degree."
SAUER interjects: "100,000 without Kammler!"
SAUER again: "Including the labor we give Kammler but not including the concentration camp people."
SAUER once again: "Right from the beginning, we realized that 200,000 men would be transferred."
"Stobbe-Detleffsen: I have just spoken to Prinzil about it. It is absolutely necessary that the few German key personnel at our disposal should be taken with the concentration camp inmates or with the other subjugated people in such proportion as will guarantee the best use of this valuable Germanstrength .....
MR. KINO: Later, on, Stobbe-Detleffsen: "I am always getting demands for German labor, for example: Here are 5000 concentration camp inmates, give me 1000 German workers. I do not fulfill these requests in this proportion; otherwise my German labor would soon come to an end. We have filled only a fraction of the positions. I distribute German workers only in the ratio of one to ten (1:10.)
"Milch: The Air Force stressed the importance of getting the whole cave for the purposes of manufacture...
"Dorsch: I shall talk to Weiss again about our getting more concentration camp people for finishing off the work.
"Diesing: (Who is on the Staff of Milch's General Luftzengmeister) " -- We probably shall not get them."
"Diesing: "I'll get them from the Reichsfuehrer. I already have 3500. Two of Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl's men are going to France to prepare everything locally with regard to housing and feeding.
"Nobel: Can one be responsible for foreigners working as airfield control personnel? The repair works say: Yes." (Milch interjects:) "not as pilots."
"Dorsch again: "I do not think that is intended. The repair works said yesterday that it would be a help to them if foreigners could be used as airfield control personnel.
The next document which the Prosecution wishes to introduce in this series is DOCUMENT NO. NOKW-361. This is an excerpt of the minutes of the May 1944 meeting of the Jaegerstab; and is, again, a part of Prosecution Exhibit No. 75. This is at page 154 of the English Document Book, 152 of the German. This excerpt is a discussion of the labor for underground construction.
THE PRESIDENT: Is this "Exhibit No. 76", Mr. King?
MR. KING: No--I--. If your Honor please, we would like to introduce these minutes of the Jaegerstab as one document.
THE PRESIDENT: This is still part of "Exhibit No. 75"?
MR. KING: Yes, your Honor. The participants in this discussion are, GABEL, who is in charge of machinery for the Jaegerstab; Sauer, Chief of Staff of the Jaegerstab; (Minister Plenipotentiary to Speer) and BORNITZ.
This is at page 153 of the English Document Book 4, and at page 152 of the German Document.
"GABEL: We must have 1,000 underground workers at once.
SAUER: Definitely.
BORNITZ: The Erzberg (ore-mine) has, furthermore, a loss of from 1400 to 1500 men per annum due to climatic conditions. It goes up as high as 1500 metres.
SAUER: Do you give the men up systematically, and to whom?
BORNITZ: Not systematically. They collapse, report sick and the foreigners do not come back. Some escape, too, as in the mountain country it is not possible to seal everything hermetically.
GABEL: Careful. Concentration camp internees are not strong enough to be able to work underground."
MR. KING: Document No. NOKW-337 --
DR. BERGOLD: --- May it please the TRIBUNAL, I would like to ask the prosecution whether it has become evident from the last document, that the defendant was present.
MR. KING: The list discloses, your Honor, that the defendant was present at that meeting. And, I can show Dr. Bergold the original document, which we are introducing in evidence; and if Dr. Bergold wishes to examine it, we can show it to him.
"DOCUMENT NO KW-337", which the Prosecution wishes to introduce now, is an excerpt from the Jaegerstab meeting of March 6th, 1944. This document is, again, part of Prosecution Exhibit No. 75, and is at page 133 of the English Document Book Four, and at page 130 of the German.
Here again we find the Jaegerstab discussing the problem of labor for underground construction, concentration camp personnel, foreign forced labor, prisoners of war and all considered, and I might add in passing that the reference in this document two pages by Milch show time he was present at this meeting of the Jaegerstab. Also in passing I might add that the previous document No. NOKW-361 which Dr. Bergold questions has references to a statement by Milch at this meeting of the Jaegerstab. I wish to draw your Honors attention again to the fact that Milch was present at that meeting. We are handing a copy of that excerpt to Dr. Bergold for him to examine. (Dr. Bergold is given a copy of the excerpt referred to.) Going back to NOKW 337a Sturmbannfuehrer of the SS whom I have not been able to identify speaking at page five and thirteen of the excerpt, page 133 of the English, page 130 of the German:
"I have already discussed with Lt. Col. Diesing our requirements according to our construction plan in the immediate program. From tomorrow 5,000 prisoners will be in readiness to carry out this measure. For that we need 750 guard personnel."
I want to call the Tribunal's attention to the fact that Diesing was a member of the Air Force. Then on page 13 Milch is speaking:
"We must distribute our German people as key personnel. That is, out of three construction companies we can probably make ten complete ones by introducing 70% foreigners. The SS officer replies:
"They must be skilled workers. In handling the prisoners it appears best that we should give 5 to 10 of them to one man who knows his job.
"The construction companies will be dissolved to provide key personnel for teams 10 times or even 100 times their size. That is a question which must be clarified by 10 a.m. tomorrow between the Plenipotentiary General for Construction, the Air Force Construction Units on one side and Kammler's Construction Staff on the other. That will be clarified by tomorrow, then any man must say what he needs. The Todt Organization must take part in this discussion, but I cannot consent to the inclusion of the Todt Organization in the 331-a matter as a third leading organization, as we should get confused.
The Todt Organization must bleed with the rest. It is the same as your construction companies. They should know that he is the organizer and usufructory; by all means the usufructuary. For besides being organizer, he is the usufructuary for the construction sites of the Plenipotentiary General for Construction."
And the SS Officer replies:
"Therefore it is important that these construction companies should be under military leadership."
Later on there is a reference by Milch to the recruitment of miners by the SS from Italy and Czechoslovakia.
MILCH: We further appealed to the Fuehrer that we should get the 64 miners who are in Berchtesgaden. The work there will probably soon be finished. May we make the suggestion that we, like the SS, should also train miners to a greater degree, and mention the figure 10,000, who would have to be trained one after another, because they could not all be trained at once.
DR. BERGOLD: May it please the Tribunal, I am reverting to the objection which I raised before, when I asked the Prosecution whether Milch was present during the meeting of the 8th to 10th of May. A photostatic copy of the document has now been shown to me. We must conclude that at this meeting Milch was present in Vienna during the first part. However, during the individual discussions especially mentioned here on page 57 in the village called Bruck an the Mur. Mur is situated in the Southern Part of Austria and only certain individuals were present. However, there is a possibility that Milch has been present and consequently I withdraw my objection.
MR. KING: If your Honor please, I had that reference checked and an examination made by a German-speaking analyst disclosed that at that particular session Milch was present. If Dr. Bergold wishes to look into it further he may make any further objection later on.
THE PRESIDENT: Has he withdrawn his objection? If so, there is no need of it.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, Yes.
MR. KING: Back at page 133 of the English Document Book, page 131 of the German, Milch is speaking. I will read that again in view of the interruption:
"We further appealed to the Fuehrer we should get the 64 miners who are in Berchtesgaden, the work there will probably soon be finished. He 332 -a made the suggestion that we, like the SS, should also train miners in a greater degree, and mentioned the figure of 10,000, who would have to be trained one after another because they could not all be trained at once.
"Sauer: The SS should be told that the training of miners should rest entirely with them, because the SS runs the best mining school.
"Milch: We must also ask the SS to get more miners from Italy and Slovakia.
"Sauer Again: We must bring more order to the PW Base Camp. We made a proposal that these PW Base Camps should be transferred to the SS. The Italian and Eastern people should be treated more roughly. In this document we have the defendant suggesting to the SS that miners be recruited and trained after having been brought in from Italy and Slovakia, and his colleague, Sauer, urging the harsher treatment of foreign labor, the transfer from the Stalag to the SS members of Jaegerstab were fully cognizant of the treatment of labor employed in works under its control. This is shown for example by Document NOKW 389 again part of Prosecutions Exhibit No. 75 and it is an excerpt from the Jaegerstab Meeting of May 2, 1944. This is at page 48 of the English Document Book - rather 148 of the English and 148 of the German. I shall read only that part of the Document in which Kammler is speaking. It is my understanding that the Defendant, Milch, was at this meeting, and in passing I again call your Honor's attention to NOKW 017 in which the defendant stated that Kammler was a leader of the Jaegerstab. I also wish to point out that Kammler was chief of one phase of the Jaegerstab Underground Construction Program. Here he reports having ordered the hanging of thirty people in the plant primarily as an example to others:
"Kammler: As usual it is because the people have noticed that they are no longer treated severely enough. I had 30 people hanged as a special measure. Since they were hanged, everything has been to some extent in order again. It is the same old story; whenever people notice that they are not being treated so severely as before, they take all sorts of liberties.
It is not surprising that a normal soldier, standing guard on people who were previously always harmless, does not suspect anything of the kind. They are not, however, harmless people. The day before yesterday 30 people succeeded in 333-a breaking out."
The next documentary excerpt from the Jaegerstab meeting which I would like to introduce is Document NOKW 349 which is an excerpt of the Jaegerstab meeting of May 25, 1944, again part of Prosecution's Exhibit 75 at page 154 of the English Document Book, 153 of the German. Milch is at the Central Planning Board meeting on this date. He was not at this meeting, but we have, however, submitted his personally initialed copy of the minutes. Participants at the discussion are Schmelter, who the Tribunal will recall the defendant named as labor expert of the Jaegerstab, Schlempp, who was Dorsch's Deputy of the Jaegerstab and Lange who is in charge of the machinery for the Jaegerstab. In the course of the discussion the statements of Schmelter clearly indicate that he was providing labor for Schlempp and in turn Dorsch, who includes the labor to be used by Schlempp in the computation of his needs. Reference is made to the arrival of some of the transports in the Dorsch phase of the construction, and also to the imminent arrival of the Hungarian Jews:
"Schmelter: In Italy we now hope that several age groups will be called up by the Italian Government and brought to Germany. The Todt Organization is bringing over 1000 workers I expect to get some of them. Some transports have arrived already.
Lange replies with the question: Will they all go to construction?
"Schmelter's Reply: Exclusively. Whatever the Todt Organization brings goes only into construction. The first transports have arrived at the large construction sites in order to get work going gradually on the large bunkers; at the same time the Hungarian Jews are expected now, and they will require some kind of key personnel. Altogether I need about 250,000 construction workers for the large bunkers and for Schlett's installations.
"Lange: You can get them all in Hungary. There are still Jews running around Budapest.
"Schmelter: There is a lot of disorder in the disposal of bomb damage. Of the 20,000 construction workers in Hamburg, 8,000 are employed in bomb damage disposal although, thank God, there have been no raids there for 334-a a long time.