That is why I made a note of the serial numbers that the women had tattooed on their loft forearm. I made a note of them on a piece of paper, and I kept them in secret in my house. The serial numbers consisted of five digits.
A few days later we received a second convoy of thirty men. These arrived exactly in the same state as the first, that is, still warm, with wide open eyes, congested, eyes brilliant, bleeding at the mouth and bleeding at the nose, and also losing their fecal matter.
The preservation of these thirty men was also proceeded with immediately, with one slight difference. The left testicle in each case was removed, which was sent to the Laboratory for Anatomy Number 2. That was a Laboratory run by Professor Hirt.
Some time later, thereupon, we received a third and last convoy, namely, of twenty-six men. They also arrived in the same state as the two previous ones.
I should like to make it clear once more--and I say this knowing it to be true--after the first convoy of women's bodies that we received, Professor Hirt, having met me at the door of an Anatomical Department, told mo literally "Peter, if you don't hold your mouth, you won't get out of this." That is word for word what Professor Hirt told me.
Another peculiarity. Professor Hirt, some time before he received those bodies, said, in the basement of an Anatomical Department, talking to Mr. Bong, "They are going to drop like flies."
All this was a sign for me that it was literally a case of murder, I therefore was right in believing that those eighty-six victims which we had received had not died a natural death.
Q. Witness, why do you assume that?
A. I beg your pardon?
Q. Why do you assume that these people were murdered? Did you get any death certificates with them, for example, with the bodies?
A. What I mean is that having made the preservation of the first lots of corpses from Mutzig Camp, there was always a sheet with each body, whereas in the case of these eighty-six victims,, there were no sheets at all; besides which; you should know as well as I that a person who dies a natural death does not leave a corpse with shiny, glistening eyes like those that I had seen nor in a state of complete congestion; nor with blood flowing out of eyes and mouth and nose.
Also, these bodies were still warm. Therefore; it cannot be a case of natural death, so far as I can judge.
Q. I see. Now, I am not sure that you told the Tribunal when the first shipment of bodies was received. Will you tell us that now, please?
A. The first lot of thirty women's corpses was received around about the 10th of August. I cannot state the date exactly, but what I do remember precisely is that it was at the beginning of August, the 10th of August, I believe.
Q. And you saw those bodies with your own eyes when they were delivered?
A. I was present myself; I myself helped to unload them, and therefore I cannot be mistaken.
Q. And then you received a second shipment of thirty bodies two weeks later?
A. Yes, I received a second lot of thirty bodies, and a third lot of twenty-six bodies.
Q. And what did you do with these bodies after you had received them?
A. Once they were preserved, the corpses wore placed in the tanks, about fifteen to each tank. These bodies were all superb. The bodies of prisoners which I had previously seen were all emaciated, whereas these eighty-six corpses that I am talking of were magnificent; finely muscled, and did not show any signs of neglect. The only thing that was remarkable was that there were a certain number of peculiar wrinkles in the back.
Q. Do you know, witness, whether or not the people who were killed and delivered to you were Jews?
A. At the time that I saw those bodies I did not know whether they were Jews or not. I merely questioned Mr. Bong and I asked him what he thought those people were. It was Mr. Bong who said, "Das sind alies Juden," They
Q. Now, witness, will you tell the Tribunal just what happened to these bodies after they had been delivered to you and had been stored in the basement or in the cellar?
A. Once the bodies had been preserved, they were put into the tanks. They remained in the tanks an entire year without anybody touching them. In the month of September, 1944, the Allies were advancing and therefore, at that time, Professor Hirt ordered Mr. Bong and Mr. Meier, the laboratory assistant to cut up these eighty-six bodies and to have than cremated in the Strassbourg City Crematorium. The work having been accomplished by Mr. Bong and Mr. Meier in the actual room where these tanks were, I asked Mr. Bong the following morning if he had cut up all of the bodies. He replied, "We couldn't cut them all up, it was far too much work. We left some of the bodies at the bottom of the tanks." I then asked Bong, "Were all the corpses burned with their gold tooth?" At that moment Bong replied, "The gold teeth that were already found on the Jews were handed over to Professor Hirt by Mr. Meier."
The remaining corpses that were not put into coffins--because there weren't any coffins left--were tossed back into the tanks with the remainder of the others, so as to make people who would see them believe that they were the remains of anatomical defections.
Q. Were you in Strassbourg when it was captured by the Allies?
A. I beg your pardon?
Q. I say, did you remain in Strassbourg, and were you there when it was captured by the Allies in 1944?
A. When Strassbourg was liberated by the Allies I was still in that Anatomical Department. It is I who should have conveyed, in the car belonging to the Department, Mr. and Mrs. Bong, and as Secretary of that Department I should also have evacuated them to the other bank of the Rhine. However, I was not anxious to do that.
The day before the Allies arrived they were at that moment at Sauvergne. I knew it from the Allied wires. Therefore, the day before, I went around to the garage and I sabotaged the car so it would not be able to run. The next morning the Allies arrived, and of course when we wanted to use the car we couldn't. I considered it my duty to do that.
Q. Now, these bodies which you say were not successfully dissected and burned, were they found in the Institute at Strassbourg University?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know whether pictures were taken of those bodies?
A. I beg your pardon?
Q. Do you know whether pictures were taken of these bodies?
A. Yes, photographs were taken of those bodies in several instances, and I know it well because I had to help. I emptied the tanks each time there were photographs so as to find those bodies that had not been dissected at the bottom. The corpses and the numbers which were on their arms corresponded exactly to the numbers that I had noted myself. Those corpses were subjected to post mortem examination by Professor Simona in my presence. I assisted him.
Q. All right. Now, witness, I want to have handed to you a booklet of pictures. And this, if the Tribunal please, is document NO-483.
A. I did not hear very well.
Q. I say that I am going to have handed to you a book of pictures, and I want you to tell the Tribunal if these are pictures of the corpses which were left in Strassbourg.
A. Yes, certainly, the photographs were taken at Strassbourg. Professor Simona made up an album with all the photographs, as well Commissar Commandant Jardin.
Q. Will you look at this book of pictures, which is document number NO-483, and will you tell the Tribunal if these are pictures of the corpses which were delivered to the Institute at the Strassbourg University in August of 1943?
A. Yes, sir.
(Documents were submitted to the witness.)
A. (sontinuing) Yes, that is correct. Yes, very exact. I can therefore say that these photographs are authentically true. I was present myself when these photographs were taken. They are exact. It is true. There is no doubt whatever about it.
Q. Now, then, witness, I will ask that you be shown another booklet of pictures. This is Document Number NO-807 and I will ask you to tell the Tribunal if that booklet, that document, contains pictures of these corpses at the Institute at Strasbourg University?
A. (Witness commenting as he looks at the pictures): All these corpses were in the Anatomical Department of Strasbourg. I remember that corpse, for instance, I remember the face. I laid out the bodies myself so that the photographs could be taken. I remember the remains of legs and arms were laying in that tank--arms on which traces of serial numbers remained had been cut off so that serial numbers could be removed. Yes, this is exact; this is correct. This one here is a body on which we made a post mortem. Here are photographs which were taken during the post mortem. For instance, this one is a photograph that I described.
Q. I think that will be sufficient, witness. I take it that you have been interrogated many times about this incident at Strasbourg, is that correct?
A. Yes sir.
MR. McHANEY: If Your Honor please, I do not think I have any further questions to direct to the witness. I have had him identify these two books of pictures which, unfortunately, we have not duplicated in your document Book. However, I have not offered them at this time as Exhibits because we also intend to offer them under certifications made by the French War Crimes Commission which appear upon these documents and which, irrespective of the identification by this witness, would make them admissible under Ordinance No. 7.
JUDGE SEBRING: Do you intend to duplicate them Mr. McHaney?
MR. McHANEY: We are trying to duplicate them now. There was just a delay in it. I would like to go ahead, though, and offer them as exhibits, as soon a s this witness has been excused, based first upon his identification and secondly upon the certification attached to each.
JUDGE SEBRING: With the proviso that they will be duplicated.
MR. McHANEY: I would like, as soon as they are offered, to have them passed up to the Tribunal and I should think also that defense counsel for Sievers and Rudolf Brandt should be permitted to see them and offer any objection if they wish.
JUDGE SEBRING: That can't be done unless they are duplicated.
MR. McHANEY: Yes, indeed, they should be.
JUDGE SEBRING: Defense Counsel will be offered the opportunity to object to these exhibits if they desire.
MR. McHANEY: If there is no cross examination, we can proceed.
JUDGE SEBRING: I did not know that you had rested.
MR. McHANEY: Yes, Sir.
JUDGE SEBRING: Any cross examination of this witness by defense counsel?
DR. WEISGERBER (Counsel for the Defendant Sievers): I am also speaking in the name of my colleague, Dr. Kaufmann. I should like to have the opportunity to view the album which has just been submitted and it is only after that that I can state whether cross examination will be necessary or not.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for the Prosecution will exhibit these albums to the defense counsel. Counsel, do you desire a few moments to examine these exhibits? The Tribunal will take a short recess if you desire some time to look them over.
DR. WEISGERBER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recess for 10 minutes.
(A recess was taken).
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: Is the Defense Counsel ready to proceed with the crossexamination?
DR. WEISGERBER: Mr. President, the defense counsel for Sievers and Brandt do not intend to cross examine the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any cross examination of the witness to be made by any other defense counsel?
DR. FRITZ: (Counsel for the defendant Dr. Rose.) Mr. President, I should like to put four questions to the witness, which have nothing to do with the type of questions which we are dealing with now, but which may be important for the defendant Dr. Rose.
THE PRESIDENT: The counsel will state the questions so that the Tribunal may rule on their probative value and whether they should be admitted at this time.
DR. FRITZ: Mr. President, I like to point out that I want to put a question to the witness because the witness happens to be here at the moment.
THE PRESIDENT: The counsel will state what the questions are.
DR. FRITZ: The first question is whether the witness can testify whether the Hygienic Institute at Strassbourg was damaged during an air raid, during which a number of members of this institute lost their lives.
THE PRESIDENT: The counsel will state the other questions, which he desires to ask.
DR. FRITZ: In the event that the witness cannot recall the date of the air raid, I should have pointed out to him that we are concerned with the same air-raid during which the wife and the son of Professor Hirt were killed in their Strassbourg flat.
A further question would be whether the witness knows that after this attack if work could be continued in the Hygienic Institute and whether the work actually was continued.
My next question would be to ask the witness whether he knows that after this air attack the valuable times were removed from this Institute, because of air raid precautionary reasons.
Mr. President, The Anatomical and Hygienic Institutes are very close to one another in Strassbourg and it is quite possible that the witness will be able to answer these questions.
THE PRESIDENT: It appears to the Tribunal that these questions might be pertinent if propounded by counsel for Defendants Sievers and Brandt, but the pertinency regarding Defendant Rose is not apparant.
Did counsel for the appellant understand the statement by the tribunal:
DR. FRITZ: No. Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: I will restate it. It occurs to the Tribunal that these questions might well be pertinent if propounded for Defendants Sievers and Brandt, but the Tribunal does not understand the pertinency of these questions on behalf of the Defendant Rose.
MR. FRITZ: Mr. President, I don't think that the defense counsel for Sievers has any interest in these questions. The questions are in connection with the work of Prof. Hagen in Strassbourg. We are concerned with hyperthesis experiments.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal fails to understand the connection and interest of Defendant Rose in those questions.
MR. MCHANEY: May it please the Tribunal, we have not yet come to the presentations of the case with which the Defendant Rose is primarily concerned, that deals mostly with the experiments relating to typhus. Certain of those experiments, as charged in the indictment, were carried out by Prof. Hagen who was the consulting physician of the Typhus experiments and as such, so the prosecution says, was a subordinate of the Defendant Rose. Hagen, it is alleged, worked in the Strassbourg University in the Hygienic Institute of the Strassbourg University and carried out his alleged criminal experiments in the Natzweiler concentration camp. We are here concerned with a witness, who was concerned with a part of the experiments with which we are concerned and he was working with both the Anatomical and Hygienic Institute of the Strassbourg University. The questions asked for the Defendant Rose are to bring certain information which might be of interest as to the activities of the Hygienic Institute. The prosecution does not raise any serious objections to the asking of those questions, except to point out that it is beyond the scope of the direct examination and he is thereby making this witness his own witness and he will be so bound be the answers given in response to these questions.
JUSTICE SEBRING: That is certainly true, Mr. McHaney. Will this witness, who is now available on the stand be available at a subsequent date in this Tribunal so that counsel can call him as a witness?
MR. MCHANEY: The witness will not be called by the prosecution again at any time. He was called merely for the purpose of questioning him on the Strassbourg questions. We will send him back to Strassbourg and we will not call him again.
THE PRESIDENT: I understand that you do not have any objections to the counsel for Dr. Rose questioning him as stated, so it will appear in the transcript of the proceedings that he is being called as a witness for the Defendant Rose. With that understanding, the Counsel for Defendant Rose may call the witness as a witness for the defense. The record will show that the witness is testifying for Defendant Rose.
DR. FRITZ: (Counsel for Dr. Rose). Witness, did you understand the questions as I put them before?
THE WITNESS: No.
DR. FRITZ: I shall repeat the questions.
BY DR. FRITZ:
Q Can you give me the date when the Hygienic Institute of the University in Strassbourg was damaged by an air raid, during which a number of members of this institute lost their lives?
A Must I answer now in French or in German?
Q Either.
A At the Anatomical Institute during the bombardments, there were no victims whatsoever. There were two or three victims at the Pharmacological Institute, which was situated behind the Anatomical Institute. Mr. and Mrs. Hirt were killed as was laboratory assistant, whose name I do not know. Apart from that there was no other case of bombardment of the hospital.
Q Witness, I was speaking about the Hygienic Institute.
A In the matter of the Hygienic Institute, I cannot answer because I don't know anything definite. I was working in the Anatomical Institute and we were not allowed to communicate.
I cannot answer that question as I am not properly informed.
Q Witness you state that Strassbourg was hardly bombed. It is possible that you remember when this air-raid took place and you could remember the date, just when the Hygienic Institute was damaged; what year and what date?
A I am not a very good head for exact dates. I know that it was bombed, but when it was exactly I cannot say.
Q In that case, I have, no further questions to ask the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Does counsel desire to ask any questions of this witness in the morning? if not, the witness may be excused.
We will recess until 9:30 in the morning.
(ADJOURNMENT.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Karl Brandt, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 19 December 1946, 0930-1630, Justice Beals presiding.
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable Judges of Military Tribunal 1.
Military Tribunal 1 is now in session.
God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshall will ascertain that the defendants are present.
THE MARSHAL: May it please Your Honor, all the defendants are present in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note that fact for the record, that the defendants are present in the courtroom.
The prosecution will proceed.
MR. McHANEY: May it please the Tribunal, at the end of the session yesterday the witness Henripierre had identified Document NO-483 and Document NO-807 as containing true and correct copies of photographs made cf certain bodies which were left in the Anatomical Institute of the University of Strassbourg at the end of the war. These documents have also been certified by appropriate authorities of the French government and I should like before offering these documents to read these certifications. That pertaining to Document NO-483 is on page 19 of Your Honor's document book. The certification is on the letter head of the Ministry of Justice. Direction of the Office of Investigation of enemy War Crimes, 48 Rue de Villejust, Paris (XVIe), Phone: Kleber 16-6- to 16-64.
CERTIFICATE "I, the undersigned, Georges REYNAUD, magistrate of the French Office of Investigation of enemy War Crimes, certify that the enclosed photographs are exact reproductions of the treatment inflicted upon political and racial deportees and others detained at the STRUTHOF camp (Laboratory for medical experiments)."These photographs illustrate the experiments carried out by Dr. August HIRT and associates.
"They were taken immediately after the liberation by the French Office of Investigation of War Crimes.
Signed: "REYNAUD" With the Seal:
"Ministry of Justice, Office of Investigation of enemy War Crimes."
I, therefore, offer Document NO-483 as Prosecution Exhibit 184.
Document NO-807, which also consists of pictures made in the Anatomical Institute of the University of Strassbourg immediately after liberation, also has been certified by appropriate authorities and here is -- if Your Honor please, I think that they have wrongly assembled the translation which is in our document book. Page 20 is the beginning of a deposition made on a French war criminal or English war criminal by the name of Joseph Kramer. Page 20 really should be marked page 23, and page 23 is really the first part of the translation and it is the certification given by the Strassbourg Police and it reads as follows: It is on the letter head of the Regional Service of Legal Strassbourg Police. "I, the undersigned, HELFFER Eugene, principal Commissary, Chief of the Sixteenth Mobile Brigade of the legal Police of Strassbourg, certify that the documents herein affixed on eight pages, including photos No. 1 to 21 of bodies, and No. 1a to 8d of documents, are photographs of bodies, and of French and German authentical documents who have been taken by the French Police immediately after the liberation of Strassbourg in the Anatomical Institute of the University of Strassbourg.
The originals of the documents can be found in the records of the Military Tribunal of Strassbourg, and are necessary for other reasons.
The photographs hereby affixed are exact and true photographs of bodies or parts of bodies found by me in the Anatomy of Strassbourg and of documents which during the information have been seized by the Major in charge of Military instruction at the Military Tribunal cf Strassbourg."
Dated, Strassbourg, November 16, 1946, Chief of the Sixteenth Mobile Brigade of legal police. Signed: HELFFER.
And on the next page of the translation we find short descriptions of the pictures. Thus, picture No. 1 is alcohol containers for the bodies which were used for anatomic preparations. A few bodies of the eighty-six people assassinated in August 1943 in the Struthof gas chamber: sixteen of these bodies have been found whole.
I might say, parenthetically, Your Honor, that STRUTHOF, I think is a French designation of the concentration camp Natzweiler.
Picture No. 2, Bodies of subjects which were likely Jewish, who were treated the same way.
Picture No. 3, Body bearing the number 107969 tattooed on the left forearm.
Picture No. 4, body of a young and robust subject whose autopsy has been made by the exports. The number tattooed on the left forearm is not visible on the photograph.
There is no comment on pictures five and six. Six says, "Other Bodies coming from the gas chamber".
7 and 8 have no comment.
Picture No. 9, Bodies of women lying in a container.
Picture No. 10, Other robust women's bodies coming from the gas chamber.
11 and 12, no comment.
Picture No. 13, Bodies defleshed at the end of 1944 on order of the German Professor HIRT, Director of the Anatomic Institute from 1941 to 1944. The number of each body, tattooed on the left forearm, has been removed by order when the bodies were defleshed.
The vital organs and the heads have been incinerated in the Crematorium of Strassbourg -- actions which were meant to prevent indentification of the bodies and to obstruct the French Medico-Legal research.
"Picture 14 shows parts of defleshed bodies."
Fifteen is the same. No comment on 16.
Picture number 17 is said to be a "body of a young girl, healthy and robust, taken at the time of the autopsy. Notice in the incisions done on the body tho layer of grease which shews execution shortly after the arrest." Picture number 18 is a "body of a man, likely Jewish. There is no sign of grease on the skin. Picture No. 19, bodies of inmates bearing on the back numerous wounds coming from violent strikes received before the execution in the gas chamber." Picture Number 20 shows the "strikes received on the back." Picture No. 21 is the same.
Now, also as a part of this exhibit are certain documents or pieces of documents, and they arm listed according a number and a letter, thus: 1A, 2B, and 3B are documents found in the Struthof Concentration Camp. "1A is a list of phone numbers. 2B is an extract of the monthly report from the camp doctor saying that experiments have been done on sixteen gypsies and that three deaths have resulted. 3B is is an extract of various reports by the camp doctor. 4C, 5C, 6C, and 7C, the notebook of the SS Volkmar from the Commandatur of the Natzweiler-Struthof Concentration Camp. Sheet 71..." that is a note at the bottom... "sheet 71 bears the following mention 'gas of cyanidric acid of Professor Hirt' (the cyanidric acid is a very strong poison). On the two others the names of Professor Haagen and Bickenbach appear Haagen and Bickenbach were associates of Professor Hirt at the Strassbourg University; and the proof will show at a later date that Haagen was also active in the medical experimentation on concentration camp inmates at Natzweiler, and of course the same was true of Professor Hirt.
Now, the next page of the translation of Document NO807 is a report on the interrogation made of Joseph Kramer. It is stated here that Kramer was for several years the commander of the Natzweiler Concentration Camp. After he left Natzweiler he finally went to Bergen Belsen, and he was captured there by the British Army of the Rhine, has subsequently been tried before a war crimes court of the British Army and has been executed. This deposition is on the letter head of the French Republic, Permanent Military Tribunal of the Tenth Military Region in Strasbourg.
"In the year 1945 on July twenty-sixth at fifteen hours, appeared before me, Major Jadin, Military Judge at the Military Tribunal of the Tenth Region, assisted by Lieutenant Jr. Hertzog, stenographer at the same Military Tribunal, also functioning..."
THE PRESIDENT: From what page of the record book are you reading?
MR. McHANEY: It is our new page 23. You will recall that I asked you to transpose page 20 and 23.
".... assisted by Lieutenant Jr. Hertzog, stenographer at the same Military Tribunal, also functioning as interpreter of German and who was under oath according to the Article 332 of the Criminal Investigation Code, in my office which had been taken to Celle, according to my verbal summons, the witness named hereafter, which has outside the presence of the other witnesses, in the presence of Major G. Dill Smith of the English Service of War Crimes, after having shown the summons which was given to him, after having sworn to say the entire truth and nothing but the truth, and interrogated by us on his sir name, given name, age, status, profession and dwelling, if he is domestically related or allied to tho parties, at which degree:
"Has answered that he was named Kramer, Joseph, Hauptsturmfuehrer SS, thirty-nine years old, living in BergenBelsen.
"I used to be a bookkeeper in Ausbourg before 1932, year in which I have volunteered in the SS and I have been asked to guard the inmates of concentration camps.
"Before the hostilities I have been as a Lieutenant in various concentration camps, especially in Estervegen, Sachsenhausen, Dachau, Mauthausen and Auschwitz.
"In April 1941 I have been sent by the superior SS authorities to the Natzweiler-Struthof as a lieutenant, adjutant to Buttig, Commander-in-Chief of the camp.
"In October 1941 I have been named commander of the camp in replacement of the Commander Zill ... "
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, this document reads October 1942.
MR. McHANEY: Pardon me, I am sorry. It is October 1942.
".... In October 1942 I have been named commander of the camp in replacement of the Commander Zill who had succeeded Buttig. I have commanded the camp until April 1944, date on which I have been sent to Auschwitz and in December 1944 to Belsen.
"During the month of August 1943 I received from the Oranienburg Camp, or rather from the Supreme SS Command in Berlin who sent it to me, the order to receive about eighty inmates coming from Auschwitz. In the letter which went with this order it was stated that I had to get in touch immediately with Professor Hirt of the Medical Faculty of Strasbourg. 728 "I went to the Anatomical Institute of Strasbourg where Hirt was.
The latter told me that he knew of an inmate convoy of Auschwitz for the Struthof. He told me that these persons were to be executed in the gas chamber of the Struthof Camp with asphyxiating gases and that their bodies were to be driven to the anatomical Institute so that he could dispose of them.
"After this conversation he gave me a bottle of about one-fourth of a liter containing salts which I think were cyanhydrique salts.
"The professor told me about the approximate dose that I had to use to asphyxiate myself the inmates coming from Auschwitz of which I have spoken to you.
"In the beginning of August 1943 I received the eighty inmates who had to be killed with the gases that had been given to me by Hirt, and I started to take to the gas chamber, on a certain evening, at about nine o'clock, with a small van, the first time, about fifteen women. I told these women that they had to go to the disinfection chamber and I did not tell them they were going to be asphysiated.
"Helped by a few SS I undressed them completely, and I pushed them in the gas chamber when they were completely naked.
"When I closed the door, they started to howl. I introduced, after having closed the door, a certain amount of salt in a funnel that was placed above and to the right to the observation window. Then I closed the opening of the funnel with a tap which was adapted at the bottom of this funnel with a metal tube on it. Thus metal tube drove the salt and water into the inside opening of the chamber of which I have spoken. I lit the inside of the chamber with a switch placed near the funnel and I observed through the observation window what was going on inside of the chamber.
I have seen that these women have continued to breathe about half a minute, then they fell on the floor. When I opened the door after having made at the same time function the ventilation inside of the chimney, I found out that these women laid without life and that they were full of excrements.
"I have told to male nurses of the SS to put these bodies in a small van the next morning, about five-thirty, so that they could be taken to the Anatomical Institute as Professor Hirt had asked me to.
"A few days later, in the same above-mentioned condition, I have taken again to the gas chamber a certain quantity of women who were asphyxiated in the same way; then again a few days later I have taken to the gas chamber, in two or three times, about fifty men, maybe fifty-five, who were killed always with the salts Hirt had given me.
"On demand: I ignored what Hirt was going to do with the bodies of these inmates whom I have asphyxiated, on his indications, at the Struthof. I did not think I had to ask him.
"On demand: I ignored to what nationality belonged the assassinated inmates; I think they came from the southeast of Europe, but I cannot designate the country.
"We present to the witness tie photographic album in which are pictures of the gas chamber.
"The witness: I recognize on these photographs the Struthof gas chamber which was built in the middle of the year 1945 to asphyxiate the inmates who were reserved for Professor Hirt.
"On demand: I admit that a great percentage of French people died an the camp. In my opinion they were intellectual people who could not support the heavy work which they had to do in the camp.
"On demands: It is true, that in the sand-pit situated above the entrance of the camp, some inmates have been shot by the SS who were under my orders.
"On demand: Professor Bichenbach came several time to the Struthof Camp to have conferences with the camp Doctors Krieger or Blancke. I do not know if they have done any experiments but, nevertheless, he told no one day that he had received the order to do certain experiments on inmates. He did not tell me which experiments these were and, in any case, he was bound to the secret by the SS command.
On a certain day when I made a general visit of the camp I saw, in an infirmary, ten inmates who had bandages on the arm. It was answered to me that these inmates had been experimented upon (Bichenbach). I asked what were the experiments being done, but he refused to give me any knowledge of them.
I do not know the number of deaths which happened in the camp during my stay. I recognize that the food was insufficient and the climate was very hard and that, on another side, the work which the inmates had to do was very hard.
Question: You have spoken to me before of the conditions in which you have executed the inmates with asphyxiation gas. In case these inmates would not have been killed following the introduction of gas done by you, would you have killed them with a bullet?
Answer: I would have tried to asphyxiate them again by projecting in the chamber a second gas dose. I have not felt any emotion in doing these acts because I had received the order to execute these eighty inmates according to the way I have spoken to you, Anyhow I have been brought up that way.
After having read, he signs with me and my stenographer." Signed, E.Hertzog, Josef Kramer, Gadin.
I submit Document No. NO-807 as Prosecution Exhibit 185.
THE PRESIDENT: Do I understand, Counsel, that the originals of these photographs are to remain permanently as an exhibit before this Tribunal or are the originals to be returned to somebody?
MR. McHANEY: No sir. These exhibits, the originals which we have received from the French authorities, will be kept as permanent exhibits here.