From 1941 on Professor Rose, because of his time being taken up with military matters, often did. not come to the Institute for weeks, even when he was in Berlin.He simply had the mail read to him over the phone, gave instructions by telephone and dictated urgent matters, and discussed technical matters with the assistants, whom I had to call to the phone.
Q. How then did you work as private secretary when Professor Rose was at the Medical Inspectorate and you were in the Robert Koch Institute?
A. As I told you, I had to attend to auxiliary scientific work and to getting extracts of a scientific nature, which I did in the library or in the office. I also discussed the current mail on the telephone and transmitted it when necessary. If something very pressing came up and Professor Rose was unable to come to the Institute, I went out to the Medical Inspectorate. Moreover, Professor Rose dictated to me usually in the evening in his apartment from 7 until 11, dictated his private mail, his scientific work, office correspondence, and sometimes military matters.
Q. How often did Rose come to the Institute after he had taken up his military activity?
A. That depended, sometimes two or three times a week. Sometimes for one or two months he didn't come at all and then there would be weeks when he appeared more frequently.
Q. At the end of 1943, why did you terminate your employment with Professor Rose?
A. Professor Rose was hardly in Berlin any more and the military office was removed elsewhere. I myself wanted to remain in Berlin and I did not want to work with Professor Gildemeister.
Q. Now, witness, another matter; did Professor Rose or one of his collaborators work on yellow fever?
A. No, as long, as I had anything to do with the department there was no work on yellow fever, Yellow fever vaccine was produced in the Robert Koch Institute, out only in the virus department.
Q. And who was in charge of this Virus department?
A. Professor Haagen and after he left, Processor Gildemeister.
Q. Now a few questions on the malaria problem; with whom did Professor Rose work, on the malaria question?
A. On one hand with the assistants in his department, also with Obermedizinalrat Dr. Sagel, who was director of a sanatorium at Arnsdorf near Dresden. This was in the course of collaboration, and when the postal service broke down at the end of tne war his assistants frequently went there. Professor Rose was also frequently in Arnsdorf near Dresden to discuss problems. From 1942 on he worked also with the Institute Eberswalde near Berlin. He had his own assistant from there come frequently to Berlin and reported to him or to the assistants on the work in Eberswalde. We also corresponded on the question of malaria with industrial firms Bayes in Leverkuseu and Elberfeld, but these were simply prophylactic means of combating malaria.
Q. Did Professor Rose have any malaria work with the Hamburg Tropical Institute on malaria?
A. No, he held lectures at the Hamburg Tropical Institute and was a member of the scientific senate of the Hamburg academy, and he supplied scientific articles to their papers. He was also a member of the Board of Directors of the Tropical Medicine Society in Hamburg, but regarding his own work he did not have correspondence with these gentlemen.
Q. Did Professor Rose have any correspondence with Dr. Schilling on malaria?
A. No, Dr. Schilling simply corresponded with the assistants on the malaria question.
Q. Did Professor Schilling receive any malaria material from Dr. Rose?
A. When Dr. Schilling set up his laboratory in Dachau, he wanted to visit Dr. Rose in the institute, but did not happen to ran into him as Dr. Rose was on an official journey. He then asked the technical assistant, Erna von Falkenhayn to give him anopheles eggs and strain mosquitoes for his work in Dachau. This the assistant did and when Professor Rose returned from his trip, Miss von Falkenhayn told him that Professor Schilling had been there and that she had sent him material to Dachau. Thereupon Professor Rose asked Miss von Falkenhayn not to make any future deliveries to Dr. Schilling, since he was not convinced that Dr. Schillings's research would be successful and he did not want to waste his valuable material for his useless attempts. I was struck at this time by the attitude on Dr. Rose's part, since the delivery and sending of such material was always taken care of in routine fashion by the assistants It was sent to hospitals and such places and was usually called to Dr. Rose's attention afterward.
Q. Then, if I have understood you correctly, the reason was that Professor Rose did no longer wish his material to be sent to Professor Schilling and the reason for this was that he did not approve of Schilling's research activities, or at least did not think they would be successful.
A. Yes, that was so. I was present once when he spoke with Miss von Falkonhayn and he said something to the affect: "Professor Schilling has had no reasonable success so far with his malaria experiments and he won't have any this time." His stock of mosquitoe strain had been greatly reduced during the war and he wanted them for his own work and for work from which one could expect some sort of scientifical success.
Q. Did you see any reports on Schilling's work in Dachau among. Dr. Rose's files?
A. No, there were none.
Q. You saw nothing in writing that had to do with Schilling's activities?
A. Once, Dr. Rose, on request of the Ministry of the Interior, drew up an extensive report on Professor Schilling' research work; I myself wrote this report. Professor Rose categorically repudiated that research work and recommended for economic and practical reasons that research work should no longer be supported by state funds in this work. This report was on a trip when the request for it came and he wont away on another trip right away, it seemed the matter was pressing. I, myself, took the document personally to the Ministry of the Interior.
Q. Do you know when this took place; in what year?
A. At the end of 1941.
Q. Was there mention in this report of work in concentration camps?
A. No and if there had been such mention it would certainly have occurred to me as at that time I had not heard of work in concentration camps and I would nave noticed it.
Q. When did you for the first time hear of experiments on human beings in concentration camps?
A. From newspaper reports, after the collapse.
Q. In other words, from Dr. Rose's conversation or in other ways you found out nothing about experiments in concentration camps?
A. No, with the one exception of the conversation between Conti and Gildemeister.
Q. One last question, witness; for what reason did you voluntarily appear as a witness for Professor Rose at this Trial?
A. At the beginning of this trial I found out through a notice in the Zeitung that Professor Rose was a co-defendant and your name was mentioned as that of his counsel. Then, on my own initiative, I wrote to you and placed myself at your disposal as a witness. I did so because, as Professor Rose's former private secretary, I felt I know so much about him and his work that I,held it to be impossible that Professor Rose should have anything to do with crimes against humanity or war crimes in any form or could have known of them.
Q. Mr. President, for the moment I have no further questions to this witness.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Witness, you stated that you first heard of experiments in the concentration camps from newspapers;
what newspapers do you refer to?
A. After the collapse I was in Berlin, the Berliner Tagesspeigel, I believe, was the first paper to mention it, then the Neue Zeitung had an article on the subject. I also saw something in the Swiss paper that somehow or other was sold in Berlin, but I cannot tell you what that paper was now.
Q. When was that and what time?
A. In 1946.
Q. Does any defense counsel have any questions to propound to this witness?
BY DR. FLEMMING: (Counsel for Defendant Mrugowsky.)
Q. Witness, in your direct examination, you stated that Professor Rose was very upset when he returned from his trip to Buchenwald and he commissioned you to arrange for a conference with Conti, he then dictated a memorandum to you about this conference with Conti; from this memorandum could it be seen what connection Conti had with the experiments in Buchenwald?
A. No.
Q. Can you tell us anything more about this conference between Dr. Rose and Conti as set down in this memorandum?
A. No, I can only remember that Conti had said that he could not entirely agree with Professor Rosa's argument, but that is so long ago that I cannot make any statements now under oath about it.
Q. No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Any further questions to the witness by any other defense counsel? There being none, the Prosecution may cross-examine.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Mrs. Block, when did you first enter the employ of Professor Rose, the day, the month and the year, please?
A. Between one and ton September 1939.
Q. When did you complete your employment with Professor Rose?
A. At the end of December 1943.
Q. Now you have outlined for the Tribunal the duties which you had while working as a private secretary to Professor Rose, at any time during the course of your duties, did you encounter any secret or top secret correspondence?
A. Never.
Q. If Professor Rose had received correspondence of a secret or top secret nature, would he have permitted you to handle said material?
A. I believe so, yes.
Q. Even top secret material?
A. Yes.
Q. Well now you have stated, that Rose's work did not deal with the field of typhus research, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You have further stated that the greater part of the work in the tropical disease department of which Rose was the Chief, that breeding activities from mosquitoes, flies and other insects were perhaps a major task?
A. Yes, that is so.
Q. You have stated that the various mosquitoes were handled by Rose at hospital and other research stations, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Well new in connection with these activities concerning Dr. Schilling, you have stated that Dr. Schilling was working at Dachau. How did you know he was at Dachau?
A. Professor Schilling came to the Robert Koch Institute one day, Professor Rose was not there but Miss Von Falkenhayn, who had previously worked with Professor Schilling, came over to my office and brought Professor Schilling along.
Professor Schilling said he would like to have anopheles eggs and mosquito eggs and then went into some detail saying he wanted to create a research institute at Dachau.
Q. Kindly tell this Tribunal the month and the year that professor Schilling visited the Robert Koch Institute to secure these mosquito eggs?
A. I believe it was 1941.
Q. 1941? Was Professor Schilling working at Dachau in 1941?
A. I seem to remember that he said that he had previously worked in Italy but that because of general difficulties he wanted to work there after in Germany, and that the Ministry of the Interior had offered him a place to work at Dachau?
Q. How many letters did Dr. Rose write Dr. Schilling in care of Dachau?
A. None at all.
Q. Are you certain?
A. I at any rate received none, none were dictated to me.
Q. Would it have been possible for Dr. Rose to write Dr. schilling at Dachau without having dictated the letter to you?
A. No, because there was no one else who could write for him.
Q. Did Dr. Rose over write letters himself without dictating them?
A. Well whether he did that or not I don't know, but I don't believe so.
Q. How you stated that Dr. Rose for considerable periods of time would be away from the Robert Koch Institute. Who would he dictate his letter to during that time?
A. Nobody, the mail filed up so far as the assistants could not take care of it and so far as I couldn't, and then if something seemed very pressing, I sent a letter to the person who had sent the letter to us saying that Professor Rose was on a trip and asked him what to do.
Q. Well now you think that Professor Schilling came to the Robert Koch Institute in l94l and secured those eggs for the malaria strain from one of the laboratory assistants, is that right?
A. Yes, Miss Von Falkenhayn.
Q. Did he over come back in 1942?
A. I don't know. I can only remember having soon Professor Schilling once in my life.
Q. Did you see any correspondence in the year 1942 with any one in the Robert Koch Institute concerning Schilling's work at Dachau?
A. No.
Q. Did you see any correspondence in the year 1943?
A. No.
Q. In other words, the only thing you over heard concerning Mr. Schilling's work at Dachau was upon his visit in the year 1941?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, concerning Professor Rose's trip to Copenhagen in what month in the year 1943 did Professor Rose journey to Copenhagen?
A. August.
Q. August, 1943. The purpose of his visit was to discuss the production of typhus vaccine, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. He was sent to Copenhagen by General Schroiber, is that correct?
A. General Schroiber asked him, since he had good connections with foreign institutes. I believe to the Ipson Institute, to go there as a private person in order to got vaccine since we had too little of it, because we needed more vaccines than we could produce.
Q. What type of vaccines were they producing in Copenhagen, do you know?
A. No, I don't.
Q. Did you ever hear what type of vaccine they were producing? Was it from rabbits' lungs or mice lungs or from nice liver?
A. I think nice were involved but whether it was lungs or liver I don't know.
Q. Wasn't it common to use mice lungs to produce vaccines?
A. I don't know.
Q. How you stated that when Rose returned from his trip that he reported that the trip was to no avail; that the people in Copenhagen were unwilling to produce the vaccine as desired, therefore, Rose made a report, and he sent this report to three sources or three authorities, would you kindly tell the Tribunal again to whom professor Rose sent this report?
A. Goheimrat Otto at Frankfurt on the Main, to Leverkusen and to Professor Gildemeister as director of the typhus department and president of the institute.
Q. Would you repeat the second one again? I am sorry I did not understand?
A. Leverkusen or the Behring Works. Leverkusen is a locality.
Q. It was the Behring Works and then he sent a report to Gildemeister at the Robert Koch Institute and one to Goheimrat Otto and he reported no further?
A. That is right. I cannot remember that he reported anywhere else.
Q. He did not report to Professor Conti, did he?
A. I don't think so, but I am not sure today. I do not seem to recall Conti's name in this connection.
Q. Well now you stated that Rose brought back or later received some samples of this vaccine from Copenhagen, and that he transferred those samples to the same people to whom he sent a report, namely, the Behring Worke, the Robert Koch Institute, care of Gildemeister, and to Goheimrat Otto, is that what you wish to tell us?
A. Yes, I don't remember to day any longer, but Dr. Rose either brought samples with him or they were sent to him very shortly there after. However, they were only very small, only a few little test tubes, and he gave instructions that the samples should accompany the report.
Q. Well now you state that Rose never sent any of those vaccines to a concentration camp, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he over send any to the Hygiene Institute of the Waffon SS?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever send any to Professor Dr. Joachim Mrugowsky?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever send any to Dr. Erwin Ding?
A. No.
Q. You are positive about that witness?
A. As long as I worked with Rose I heard neither the name of Ding which was entirely unknown to me until I heard it now, nor so far as I can remember, the name of Mrugowsky, which to be sure I knew from having road reports in the newspapers, nor did I ever have any correspondence with these gentlemen.
Q. You have never seen any correspondence with Dr. Mrugowsky?
A. No.
Q. Are you certain that Dr. Rose didn't have another Secretary?
A. No had a typist with the Luftwaffe.
Q. Do you consider it possible that he could have carried out these matters with Dr. Mrugowsky and Dr. Schilling through his staff in the Luftwaffe?
A. From what I know of the matter I don't believe so. The German army was very peculiar and I do not believe that a German officer could have settled matters that were not of an immediate military nature in his military office.
Q. Well, now you have stated that Rose could not have sent any of these to concentration camps, and he did not send any to an SS office or to Dr. Ding. However, on direct examination you also stated that whether or not Professor Rose sent these Vaccines to other than the three people, or the three organizations you mentioned, that is the BehringWerke, the Robert Koch Institute in care of Gildemeister, and to Geheimrat Otto, that you could not say. Now, I am asking you to be consistent. Can you definitely state on oath that Professor Rose never sent vaccines of any type to an SS office, to Dr. Ding, to Dr. Mrugowsky, or to a concentration camp?
A. The Copenhagen vaccines were in the Robert Koch Institute at first. Professor Rose never had them first in his hands nor did he send them off. He didn't send them to Ding or Mrugowsky, that I know. They went to the three places that I mentioned before. There was such a small amount no more could have been sent.
Q. Did Professor Rose indicate what happened at the Military Medical conference at the Berlin Academy in May of 1943? after Dr. Ding had reported on his experiments with typhus at the Buchenwald concentration camp?
A. No, not to me.
Q. He never mentioned that to you?
A. No.
Q. You have stated that when Professor Rose returned from his visit to Buchenwald - that is the time when he accompanied Professor Gildemeister - that he was completely dissatisfied with what he saw at Buchenwald. Now realizing, as you have stated, that Professor Rose was a very dramatic and drastic fellow, will you kindly tell the Tribunal just what he said which indicated to you that he was completely dissatisfied with what he saw at Buchenwald?
A. He said nothing at all. When he came back, he said that I should get in touch with Conti and Gildemeister. Then, after having this talk with Conti he returned to the Institute. This was the first time he came to the Institute since returning and without going into anything personally he wrote to Conti.
Q. What do you suppose he wrote to Dr. Conti? Were you able to ascertain why he decided to write to Conti?
A. He wrote at the top something like "Conference with Conti".
Q. What conference was that? Was that the conference that Rose and Gildemeister and several others had with Conti in December 1941?
A. Subsequent to the trip to Buchenwald.
Q. Yes. Do you remember when that conference was that you suggest was subsequent to the trip to Buchenwald? Was that prior to the establishment of the Buchenwald Institute?
A. I know nothing at all about any institute in Buchenwald.
Q. Well, now you state that Dr. Rose was referring to his conference which took place before his visit to Buchenwald and when he returned, after being dissatisfied about what he saw at Buchenwald, he wrote to Conti. Now, can you tell us, with your knowledge of the files, your knowledge of the activities of Professor Rose, can you tell us just when this conference took place that Professor Rose had with Conti prior to his trip to Buchenwald?
A. Before his trip to Buchenwald he didn't talk to Conti at all. He made an official trip after the visit, the purpose of which I was not informed of and I didn't know he was going to Buchenwald, When he came back, he said that he wanted to have a talk with Conti and then from the memoranda I could subsequently deduce that he had been to Buchenwald.
Q. Well, had he ever had any conferences with Conti prior to the trip to Buchenwald? He must have if he had determined that he wanted to see Conti regarding the Buchenwald situation.
A. Of that I know nothing.
Q. Don't know anything about that?
A. No.
Q. Did Professor Rose ever go to any conference with Gildemeister concerning typhus matters? That is, did Gildemeister ever invite him to attend conferences regarding typhus?
A. No. That I know for sure.
Q. How do you know that for sure?
A. Because Professor Rose and Gildemeister, as I have said here, Were not on very good terms.
Q. Well, now just a moment, witness. How do you account for the fact that Professor Rose and Gildemeister visited Buchenwald together?
A. I don't know. They were ordered, I guess.
MR. HARDY: I have no further questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Has defense counsel any further questions of the witness?
DR. FRITZ: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: There being no further questions to be propounded to the witness, the witness will be excused.
DR. FRITZ: With the approval of the Tribunal I should like to call the witness Professor Dr. Hoering.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal will summon the Witness Felix Hoering.
FELIX HOERING: a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE SEBRING: Please hold up your right hand and be sworn.
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITZ:
Q. Professor, won't you please state your full name?
A. Dr. Felix Otto Hoering.
Q. When were you born?
A. On the 22nd of July 1902 at Frankfurt on the Main.
Q. What is your present residence?
A. Tuebingen, Justinus Kernerstrasse 35.
Q. Would you please shortly describe your career to the Tribunal.
A. After having passed my matriculation examination at Stuttgart in the year of 1920 I studied medicine at Tuebingen, Vienna, Kiel, Berlin, and Munich.
I then started to practice at the City Hospital at Mannheim for a period of three years. In the meantime I studied pathology for half a year at the Pathological Institute at Rostock. In 1929 I was hygienist for a half year at Heidelberg. Then for nine years I was assistant for medical clinics at Kiel and Munich. I qualified as a lecturer for internal medicine in the year of 1935 in Munich. In January 1938 I followed a wish which I had long since followed and went abroad. This was due to the fact that as a clinic worker I was always interested in the field of infectious diseases and that ever since the early 1930's I had the desire to study infectious diseases outside of Europe personally. I first went to Antwerp where I gained the diploma in tropical medicine. Then for five months I was in London with the Bureau of Scientific Research. From there I went to Brazil and worked with the Rockefeller Institute for the first part of my stay there at Rio de Janeiro under Dr. Fred L. Sopher.
Q. And what are you doing now, Professor?
A Ever since the 1st of April, 1944, I am the chief physician of the University medical clinic and the head of the medical polyclinic at Tuebingen. In addition, I am lecturing on medical polyclinic medicine.
Q So you are now a professor on the medical faculty of the University of Tuebingen?
A Yes. I hold the title as an extraordinary professor since 1941. In the year of 1944 I changed my residence from Munich to Tuebingen, after having gained my venia logendi in the field of tropical medicine in the year of 1942, which means that I am now a professor for internal and tropical medicine.
Q You made publications in the tropical medical field, didn't you?
A Yes, some contributions in periodicals. The best known probably is the book which was published in the year 1938 entitled "Clinical Teaching of Infections". In the tropical medical field I published some work in the field of yellow fever which appeared in English, Brazilian and German periodicals. I further published some work about malaria. A work regarding that subject will soon appear in the journal for tropical medicine in London.
Q What did you do during the war?
AAt the end of July, 1939, I returned to Germany from Brazil in order to leave again for abroad after a short vacation. In the meantime, however, the war had broken out. I was drafted into the army as an assistant physician. I went through the Polish and French campaigns as a physician with the front troops. In July, 1940, I was transferred to the tropical institute of Professor Rodenwald at Berlin. From May, 1941, onwards I received a number of special assignments, mainly in connection with the combat of malaria. That was in the Balkans and in Southern Russia In 1943 I became consulting internal medical expert with the army in Greece. On the 1st of April, 1944, I was sent to Tuebingen where I headed the hospital and simultaneously carried on in my civilian capacity as a university professor.
In January, 1945, I was again transferred to the army as a consulting expert on internal medicine. On the 8th of May, 1945; I was captured by the Americans in Austria. At the end of May I received the assignment to institute a hospital for DPs at the reception camp of Hoersching and to head it. I was in charge of this hospital, until I was released in July, 1945. I was in charge of this hospital under the supervision of the American physicians.
Q Since when did you know Professor Rose?
A I knew Professor Rose since I saw him at the International Tropic Conference at Amsterdam in the fall of 1933 where he held a lecture. As the head of the tropical medicine department of the Robert Koch Institute I had already known him from before.
Q. Do you knows him personally?
A Yes. I made his acquaintance in the fill of 1940 for the first time. On that occasion I wanted to ask him whether my wife, who is also a physician, could work for him. My wife then, in effect, worked for him at the Robert Koch Institute for a period of approximately two years. I only say him after on a few official occasions. There are no social or personal connections between Professor Rose and I.
Q You also participated in the Third Meeting of the Consulting Physicians at the military Medical academy, didn't you, which took place in May of 1943? Did you, at that time, take part in the sessions of the Section Hygiene and Tropic Hygiene?
A. Yes, at that time I was mainly active as an internist with the army. At this meeting I was supposed to hold a lecture about yellow fever. This lecture had been included on the program of the tropic hygiene section where yellow fever vaccine was also to be discussed. For that reason I participated in that session on that morning from beginning on and went to the section of this meeting which dealt with hygiene.
Q. Did you, at that time, hear the lecture given by Dr. Ding about the testing of typhus vaccine?
A. Yes, he was supposed to speak before the subject of yellow fever was discussed and, merely by accident, I was already present at that time. As a rule, I had nothing to do with the typhus vaccine questions.
Q. Can you still remember the contents of that lecture?
A. As far as I remember the lecturer spoke about the influence of various typhus vaccines on the course of an illness and proved that a number of vaccines could be used, whereas other vaccines had less effect.
Q. Could it be concluded from that lecture that these reports were based on experiments on human beings? In other words, intentional infections?
A. Whether that became apparent from Dr. Ding's lecture or whether it only became apparent as a result of the subsequent discussion I can no longer say today with any amount of certainty.
Q. Would you please describe to the Tribunal in detail what happened after Ding's lecture?
A. After Dr. Ding's lecture there followed a discussion. The discussion was opened by Professor Rose. He, at first, referred briefly to the material substance of the lecture which he, by and large, recognized. He emphasized, however, that this was a question of experiments on human beings and that a number of people had lost their lives as a result. Using rather strong words, he pointed out that any such procedure was a deviation of procedures used for decades in the research of immunity.
He said that this was an extremely serious matter and that the hygienists would have to maintain their old principles. Professor Rose spoke for a long time and spoke in sharp words. Naturally, I can no longer recall his words in detail, but I am sure that he voiced the substance of what I have just said. In accordance with his temperament, he did this in strong words which went beyond the customary exchange of words used during such discussions. At any rate, every participant in this meeting was well aware that this was an incident of almost sensational character. For that reason, after the end of that session and during the subsequent days, this incident was discussed among small circles and I can well remember that.
Q. What happened as a result of this speech by Professor Rose? I am now referring to the time of the discussion.
A. The lecturer, Dr. Ding, replied to Professor Rose and defended his experiments. He admitted that this was a question of experiments on human beings but he said that the experimental subjects were criminals who had all been condemned to death. Professor Rose there upon once more replied, saying that this didn't change anything in his criticism. He said that we were here concerned with a basical question, There upon the discussion was rather suddenly stopped by Professor Schreiber. Generalarzt Schreiber said that if the gentlemen wanted to discuss basical, ethical questions, then they would have ample opportunity to do that after the meeting. In the printed report of the meeting which I read these discussion remarks were not printed.
Q. Didn't you notice that when reading the printed report? Didn't it come to your attention?
A. No, I would have thought it very surprising if any such discussion at that time would have been printed.
Q Now this discussion took place during a military meeting, did it not? In your opinion, how could Professor Rose's objections be judged from a military and disciplinary point of view?
A Well, from a military point of view, his objection constituted an offense against discipline, for he criticized the attitude of persons who held the leading positions and he advocated that other people would resist any such procedure. Considering the situation in Germany at that time, this alone would have sufficed to get him into a rather awkward position, that is, if any official steps had been taken against him in this matter.
Q Why didn't you yourself adopt any attitude in this matter?
A I was only a guest at that meeting. This whole incident came as a complete surprise to me. I did not know of all these events. At any rate I could not have said anything more than that I was of the same opinion as Professor Rose. Beyond that, Professor Schreiber had already stopped the discussion.
Q The Tribunal has a document before it which bears the signature of Dr. Ding. It is a so-called Diary of Dr. Ding. It says there, among other things, that one of the vaccines which was discussed during that meeting was furnished by Professor Ruge and Professor Rose, for the purpose of conducting experiments on human beings. Was anything like that mentioned during that meeting? Did Dr. Ding mention it, or was it brought up during the discussion?
A I cannot remember anything like that. When replying to Rose's objections the lecturer made no mention of it at all. Such a contradiction would have created attention considering the severity with which Rose expressed himself against the experiments.
Q In the same document it says further, under a different date, that approximately one year later a vaccine was tested in the concentration camp of Buchenwald, which originated from Copenhagen and that this was done upon the initiation of Professor Rose. Do you knovi about that, Professor?