A No. It was asked whether I received a report. To assume a detour via a copy was wrong. Kogon did not know about my position with Grawitz. Probably he concluded from the fact that I signed a publication of Ding's with the designation of Reichsaerztefuehrer-SS which was later sent back to Ding. Kogon most likely thought that I would have something to do with the typhus experiments or that I would have to know about them. In any case he really had no insight into the position I held in the Staff of Grawitz.
Q We will let the record of Kogon's testimony speak for itself, doctor. Doctor, did you at any time ever act as go-between for Dr. Von Kennel in order for him to have some of his work tested at Buchenwald?
A I cannot say that. I know that I approached Ding with reference to Von Kennel. I said already yesterday that I vaguely remembered that I tried to transmit Grawitz' desire for experiments with animals to Von Kennel. In addition there was something in connection with a secretary for Von Kennel perhaps. Ding perhaps performed animals experiments for Von Kennel, I cannot tell you in detail.
Q Well, you never went to Ding or Mrugowsky, for instance, and said "Von Kennel wants some work done. Will you do it for him?" Did you ever act as go-between?
A I can't remember.
Q Well, now in your own Document Book, which was your Poppendick Exhibit 6, on page 25 - this is an affidavit of Von Kennel - he stated that his department in Leipzig never had anything to do with the hormone experiments of Dr. Vaernet, with typhus, or with experiments concerning burns. Now, do you think it is possible that Dr. Von Kennel is not being truthful in that affidavit?
A I really can't overlook that in detail.
Q Well, did you ever hear of the drug diaminodiphonylsulphone which for the benefit of the court reporter is spelled as follows:
d-i-a-m-i-n-o-d-i-p-h-o-n-y-l-s-u-l-p-h-o-n-e. Did you ever hear of that drug, doctor?
A I cannot recall having heard that complicated name. I am not an expert in this field. It is quite possible that this is the chemical designation of sulfanilamide preparations.
Q You think if you ever heard it you would forget it?
A That is possible.
Q Well, let's see - Document NO-1184. This will be offered for identification as Prosecution Exhibit 476.
Is that your signature on the bottom of that document, Doctor?
A Yes, that is my signature.
Q This is dated 13 June 1944 - secret stamp - it is addressed to Reich Physician SS and Police.
"To the Office III in the building "A communication from SS-Stubaf.
Professor Dr. VonKennel was transmitted on June 1, 1944 the last paragraph of which reads as follows:
"We have already made experiments with Sulfonamide in Typhus cases, however, without success. Kimmig, however, has synthecised a substance of diaminodiphonylsulphone which in a mouse carrying Streptococci, is to such an extent superior to all sulfonamides that it nearly reaches a penicillin. The inoculation of human beings however still creates very unpleasant secondary manifestations, acute cyznosis. Nevertheless it is worth considering whether or not some orientation tests should be made on persons suffering from typhus in order to continue the efforts to detoxicate this remedy. Could you act as a mediator in our efforts to cooperate with some clinic?"
Now there, VonKennel has asked you to act as go-between for him, has he not in the VonKennel letter?
A That is possible.
Q Now we continue - "According to your communication of June 2, 1944, Diary No. 370/44, the Chief Hygienist agreed to the fact that the Typhus Research Dept.
Buchenwald should experiment with the "Diaminodiphonylsulphone" according to VonKennel and Kimmig on typhus cases in order to determine its effectiveness and computability. There are enclosed more detailed data are the above remedy and it is requested that they be further transmitted to SS-Stubaf. Dr. Ding, SS-Stubaf. Professor Dr. VonKennel furthermore advises that a certain quantity of the above remedy will arrive here during the next few days. Upon arrival this remedy will likewise be forwarded there.
"Professor Dr. Von Kennel considers it very advisable that Dr. Ding should call on him in his clinic in Leipzig for the purpose of discussing this rather different therapy. The necessity for absolute secrecy is stressed to all institutions concerned.
Signed Poppendick" Now, when Dr. VonKennel asked you to act as go-between for him how did you happen to go directly to Mrugowsky and not directly to Dr. Ding?
A I don't know whether VonKennel personally asked me to be a go-between. I don't know to whom he wrote. He probably wrote to Grawitz. As regards Ding's activities I don't know in detail what his position of subordination was, what his activity was, and so on. I merely know he was a hygienist.
Q Well, then you assumed that Dr. Mrugowsky was chief of the Institute of Buchenwald, didn't you? Ding's superior when you wrote this letter?
A I knew that he was a hygienist, that he had come from Mrugowsky's institute and I, therefore, assumed that Ding belonged to that institute. What Ding's work was in particular I didn't know at that time.
Q Well, now it states in this third paragraph or the second paragraph I believe it is, "that a certain quantity of the above remedy will arrive here during the next few days. Upon arrival this remedy will likewise be forwarded there." That is, the drug will be forwarded to Buchenwald. Well, who was to forward this drug to Buchenwald? You?
A No. I really cannot tell you that.
Q Did you ever receive the drug yourself from Von Kennel to send to Buchenwald?
A I can't remember that.
Q Well, we will refresh your memory, doctor in Document NO-1182which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit 477 for identification.
Now this letter is dated 15 June 1944. That is the same date as the letter that you addressed to Mrugowsky. This letter is from Von Kennel to SS-Standartenfuehrer Dr. Poppendick regarding your letter dated June 5, 1944 wherein it states as follows:
"Standartenfuehrer, "I enclose the first sample of the experimental preparation diaminodiphonylsulphone which, for purposes of simplication I have called "VK25."
"I point out again that I proposed for the first testing experiments tablet twice, at the most three times, a day; that, quite probably, cyanosis will occur, which may be averted by intravenous injections of 10-20 ccm of 1 percent methyl - blue solution.
Heil Hitler!
Signed Von Kennel" Now, then you did receive this, doctor, didn't you?
A I can't tell you. I really can't remember. I don't remember having received it, at any rate the letter is addressed to me.
Q Ding finally got it, too, didn't he?
A I can't tell you that, either.
Q Look at the top of the letter. See the stamp. In the stamp is "Received 21 June 1944 - then the number 144/44 with the initial D in the corner." Would you say that would be Dr. Ding's receipt?
A I can't say that. It is possible.
Q Eight days later?
I am going into another document on the same subject. It would take two or three minutes to introduce these.
JUDGE SEBRING: Did you identify this document by a number?
MR. HARDY: Yes, Prosecution Exhibit 477 for identification.
A May I say something else about that document?
Q Certainly.
A It becomes evident from both letters that this is a question of a drug which has certain effects, for instance, cyanosis. I must point out that we physicians know that all sulfonamide drugs create cyanosis which can be averted by methyl-blue solution. In spite of that sulfanilamide is used today to a large extent. One, therefore, cannot draw the conclusion that these are experiments which can in any way be considered to be dangerous. In addition, on that letter NO-1184 it is necessary to inform all agencies to keep this matter secret. Now, the conclusion can be drawn for that - and no other conclusion can be drawn that any dangerous experiments were carried out the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Von Kennel wanted to keep the developments of this on preparations secret because he was maintaining a certain competition with the firms involved. For that reason he tagged his research laboratory "V".
Q I am not interested doctor in the purpose of the experiments of the outcome of the experiments, I am merely asking you that you did act as mediary or go-between of Von Kennel and Dr. Ding. Didn't you according to this document wherein your signature appears?
A Yes, I already said that if it refers to experimental animals and from this letter I concluded that I obviously sent one or two other letters to Von Kennel.
Q Now, witness, in addition, you had knowledge that Dr. Mrugowsky, Chief Hygienist of the Waffen-SS, could make available facilities for experimentation of any nature at the typhus research station in Buchenwald according to this letter?
A I know that Mrugowsky Institute sent out secret papers regarding new experiences gained with typhus illnesses, numbers of these people were sent to SS hospitals, where in detail it happened I cannot say. In my opinion this was a clinical test. It was possibly done on sick SS men in some SS hospitals.
Q To actually show that Dr. Ding actually received the drug I wish to introduce another document.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now be in recess.
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 9 April 1947.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
HELMUT POPPENDICK - Resumed
DR. FLEMING (Counsel for the defendant Mrugowsky): Mr. President, the prosecution submitted this morning various documents in which the defendant Mrugowsky is mentioned. In my opinion the prosecution so far as the material is concerned which it is using against one specific defendant, this material must be submitted when the defendant is in the stand, otherwise the counsel for the defendant has no opportunity to defend himself against this material. Therefore, I ask the Tribunal either to order that the material now submitted against the defendant Mrugowsky should not be used against the defendant Mrugowsky or that the defendant Mrugowsky later be again called to the stand so that he can make statements regarding this material. The same objection I raise also on behalf of Kaufmann for defendant Rudolf Brandt who was also mentioned this morning in one of the documents.
MR. HARDY: Your Honor, I am afraid that the defense counsel isn't aware of the concept of rebuttal evidence.
THE PRESIDENT: The documents to which defense counsel refers have merely been marked for identification; they have not yet been even offered in evidence. When they are offered in evidence, counsel for any defendant may be heard to interpose any objection to the admission into evidence which he thinks may be well taken. The Tribunal will then rule upon the admissibility of the documents. Of course, if these documents are offered in evidence at this time or when they are offered, any defendant would have an opportunity to take the stand and explain anything in connection with those documents that might refer to him.
CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. HARDY:
A. Just before the recess we were discussing document NO 1182which was addressed to the defendant Poppendick concerning the drug VK 25.
This letter is addressed to you, Dr. Poppendick, and I ask you again did you receive this first sample of the experimental preparation VK 25, as outlined in this letter from Vonkennel?
A. To speak honestly, I cannot say one way or the other now.
Q. Well, assume that you did receive it, would you have then passed it on to the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS for delivery to Ding yourself?
A. I can't say that either.
MR. HARDY: Well, now, Document NO-1185. We offer this at this time for identification as Prosecution Exhibit No. 478. This document is dated 21 June 1944, addressed to SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Prof. Dr. Scharlau, Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS, and Herr Ding acknowledges receipt of one small bottle of Diamindodiphonylsulfon tablets as testing quantity for the clinical station of Department for Typhus and Virus Research. The tablets originate from Prof. Dr. Vonkennel, Leipzig, then in parenthesis, see our letter of June 15, 1944, signed Doctor Erwin Ding.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Now, at the top of this letter you will notice underneath the word "subject" the words "Re: Your letter dated June 19, 1944". Now, taking this letter into consideration and looking back at the letter addressed to you of 15 June 1944, would you state that these samples were sent to you by Vonkennel and were in turn delivered to the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS who in turn on June 19, 1944, sent them on to Dr. Ding? Is that a reasonable explanation of the manner in which Dr. Ding received this drug at Buchenwald?
A. I am not in a position to make statements about what route those drugs took. I cannot remember that I received it. It is quite possible that it went on its way without my personal participation at all.
Q. Now, doctor, the prosecution has introduced Document Number NO 1500 as Prosecution Exhibit No. 289 which was admitted into evidence on 7 January 1947. This is a document concerning the hormone research of SS Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Vaernet. Will you kindly look at the bottom of that document and tell me whether or not that is your signature, doctor?
A. Yes, that is my signature.
MR. HARDY: No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Any further questions of this witness on the part of any defense counsel?
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. BOEHM (For defendant Poppendick):
Q. Witness, this morning you were shown a photo copy, which I unfortunately have not yet received, but I believe you will be able to recall it; it was initialed by you, "A certified true copy, Poppendick." This concerned itself with gas gangrene, and was addressed to the Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler. Did you compare this copy with the copy drawn up by the secretary before you certified the correctness of the copy?
A. No, in no case, because the secretary was Grawitz's confidant, settled all sorts of matters for Grawitz, but did not sign such matters, particularly not matters directed to the Reichsfuehrer himself. That had to be signed by an officer, and it happened several times that I was asked by her for a signature, and she told me that she had made a copy of such and such a document, that it was a correct copy, and that I should please put my signature to it as a certification; and since this secretary had Grawitz's complete confidence I always assumed everything was in order. I knew nothing about the experiments in Ravensbruck except want I heard when it was reported.
Q. This is an interim report on the clinical experiments in Ravensbruck. Were you the technical manager or the treater of this thing?
A. No.
Q. Did you read it before you signed it?
A. I think that is most improbable.
Q. The document seems to indicate that you would know the contents of the document if you certified its correctness.
A. Under other circumstances that might be so, but in Grawitz's office where, as I said, the secretary took care of these matters with Grawitz's complete confidence, that was not customary. I could accept the secretary's word as a guarantee.
Q. In other words, you certified that the contents were correct without having read it?
A. Yes, that is just what happened.
Q. This morning Exhibits 474 and 475 were submitted; a letter of 4 July 1941 regarding the treatment of female sterile persons in other words, the treatment of a woman who is sterile. This letter, too, is initialed or signed by you. There was also another letter submitted concerning sterilization of women. Do you know of any connection between these two letters?
A. No, as I said before, I had no experience whatsoever with sterilization.
Q. The second letter is signed, not by you but by Grawitz. In other words, you knew only of the first letter, Exhibit 475?
A. Yes, in connection with the treatment of sterile SS-wives and which this letter concerning me in my capacity as a doctor in the Sippenamt.
Q. And the doctors here mentioned are Klauberg, Wolf, Ehrhard, Guenter -- they being the doctors to whom this report was made.
A. The last man's name is Schulze; Guenter is the first name; Schulze is the last.
Q. Yes, that is right. My error. At any rate, you knew nothing about the contents of the second document concerning sterilization of women. You found out about it the first time today?
A. Yes, sir, that is all I knew about it.
Q. There is another document submitted, 476, from ReichsfuehrerSS, Reich Physician, police and SS concerning the drug VK 25 that was spelled out this morning. I now should like to ask you whether you were the competent expert who worked with Von Kennel?
A. No, VonKennel took care of his matters personally with the persons involved. As I have already said, I once provided him with experimental animals and that is probably the reason why VonKennel wrote to me in this connection. That can only have happened this once. And thereupon I worked on the matter; or, it can also have been that Grawitz said that I should write a letter to VonKennel, because, as a matter of fact, these matters didn't concern me at all; it was just accidental that I had anything to do with them.
Q. The last document submitted to you, which was addressed to you by Prof. Dr. VonKennel, describes the production of this drug and points out that it was sent to you. Do you know of any experiments in this matter? Did you know that experiments were being carried out with this drug VK25, or were to be carried out?
A. Most certainly I did not, because I remember nothing about it. Moreover, I am persuaded that in this case also it was not a question of experiments, but that the trying out of this drug was being carried out in any clinic.
Q. Quite so; and you know where this drug was to be tried out?
A. In some clinic or an SS hospital.
Q. You are assuming that?
A. Yes, that is so.
Q. Above all, you didn't know that there were to be any sort of criminal experiments in this connection - experiments which could lead to the death or serious wounds, -- wounding of human beings?
A. No. There was no reason to even think of such a thing.
Q. Now, if I may summarize, I should like to ask you: You had no orders, you gave no orders to carry out criminal experiments, you did not instigate such experiments, or knowingly support such experiments?
A. I can answer all these questions with no. It was only here in this courtroom that I found out about the experiments that were carried out, but I had nothing to do with these things and I had no reason to suppose they were going on.
Q. Did you not in official conversations find out about experiments carried out on concentration camp inmates against their wills and which lead to death, cripplings, or other forms of cruelty or torture?
A. No; if there had been any conversations about that it must have struck me especially, but it was not the subject of conversation.
When there was talk around the office actual matters were discussed; the front-line situation, the last bombing on Berlin, or such things, but there was no discussion of such things as you just mentioned.
DR. BOEHM: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Any other examination of this witness by any of defense counsel?
DR. SAUTER (for Blome): Mr. President, I should like to ask one question which I could not ask before because I was ill. I have only one question.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel may proceed.
BY DR. SAUTER:
Q. Witness, you recall the meeting at Hohenlychen?
A. Yes.
Q. You know which meeting I am referring to?
A. Yes, the last conference in May 1944.
Q. That was the conference regarding which the prosecution submitted a list of those present; and you saw that?
A. Yes.
Q. In this list of participants there is a mention of SSObersturmbannfuehrer Dr. Gross. Do you remember that? There has been considerable discussion of that here. Do you know this SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. Gross who took part in this meeting at Hohenlychen?
A. I do know a Dr. Gross who was, I believe, an SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer in 1944. He was chief physician of the SS hospital in Riga and I believe I remember that this Dr. Gross was present at the meeting at Hohenlychen because I think I saw him there.
Q. You have heard here on several days that a certain Dr. Gross was a collaborator of the co-defendant Dr. Blome; you heard that here?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this Dr. Gross whom you mentioned and know as the chief physician of Riga identical with the collaborator Dr. Gross who collaborated with Dr. Blome; or is that another Dr. Gross?
A. That must have been another Dr. Gross. I know from hearsay that there was a second Dr. Gross who, I believe, was a hygienist. However, I do not know him. At any rate, he was not the one I saw at this meeting at Hohenlychen but, as I said, was the chief physician in Riga. He was the one who was at Hohenlychen, not the hygienist.
Q. Did you know Prof. Dr. Blome before?
A. I heard the name once before but I didn't know him personally.
Q. Did you see Dr. Blome at this meeting at Hohenlychen?
A. No.
DR. SAUTER: No further questions. Thank you.
DR. BOEHM: Mr. President, I am through interrogating the witness Poppendick. I should merely like now to submit a few documents.
THE PRESIDENT: There being no further questions to the witness, the defendant may resume his place in the dock. Counsel may proceed.
(Witness excused).
DR. BOEHM: Dr. Jung already submitted an affidavit, I should like to read part three, which has not yet been read. This is HPO-2, Poppendick Exhibit No. 2, the part which I shall read is on page four:
"3. The personality of Poppendick and his activities:
"I met Poppendick fleetingly in 1937 or 1938 and again when I took up my duties in the Medical Inspectorate in Berlin, where he was the chief of the medical department of the Race and Settlement Main Office; I do not remember exactly what the department was called officially. As far as I remember, Poppendick, in this capacity, dealt with the medical supervision of eugenic and matrimonial questions which reached the Race and Settlement Main Office. This department of Poppendick, together with its small group of male and female workers, was subordinated in medical questions directly to the Reich Physician toward the middle of 1939. Poppendick worked for the Race and settlement Main Office in this capacity until the outbreak of the war, when he was drafted into the army-and, as far as I remember, later as well.
"I saw Poppendick frequently during this time and I had the opportunity of forming a picture of his personality which I judge as follows:
"Poppendick is a man who is conscientious and reliable in his routine work; basically serious, but a bit soft and in need of spurring on. He seemed to be interested exclusively in his specialized graining (internist) and in his professional routing duties in the Race and Settlement Main Office. His way of living was calm and sober, in intercourse with others he was reserved.
"As far as I came into contact with Poppendick and his work during the short visits when I reported in Berlin during the war, nothing seemed to have changed as far as his position and his tasks were concerned; and equally, the reorganization of the office was not much in evidence except that there were more people there.
"Later as well, I never met anybody in the antechamber except the secretary, and I was not under the impression that anything had changed in the way visitors or experts were received or treated. I never had any knowledge of the institution of a 'Private Office' in 1943. There was no outward sign of one.
"I know from conversations with Poppendick that he tried several times to be sent to the front again, but it seems that these attempts led to nothing, perhaps partly because Poppendick was promoted to ranks in accordance with his appointment and it was difficult to give an appointment at the front to a man of his rank and without front line experience. I remember that when I congratulated him on his promotion to Standartenfuehrer, he said angrily that this promotion was neither in accordance with his intention nor his wishes, because now he could calculate for himself now difficult it would be for him to get a front-line appointment.
"As I have said above, Dr. Grawitz was included to make judgments on external appearances. Certainly these promotions had some connection with this tendency." It is signed and certified.
Further, I should like to read from the already submitted Document HPO 7, Exhibit No. 9, the Kirchert Affidavit, I should like to read part 3, which concerns Grawitz office and Poppendick's activities in this office.
The passage is on page 20 of the Document book:
3. Routine at the Office of Grawitz:
"As Reich Physician of the SS and Police, Grawitz was my superior officer in the health service, and I had frequently to make reports to him. On these occasions, I had the opportunity to obtain some insight in the workings of his office.
"The appointment with Grawitz was made by telephone through his receptionist, Fraeulein Sommerfeld. It was from Poppendick, whom I had telephoned several times to make an appointment, that I learned that appointments should be made not through him but through Fraeulein Sommerfeld. When, at the appointed time, one presented oneself in the reception room of the Reich Physician, where Fraeulein Sommerfeld sat alone, it was she who announced one's arrival to Grawitz by house telephone.
"Grawitz was in the habit of conducting conferences in complete privacy, irrespective of whether important matters or matters of secondary significance were at stake. He used to keep the documents connected with the conferences in his desk. If it should happen that a written communication had to be prepared during the course of a conference, Fraeulein Sommerfeld would be summoned. From this conduct, the impression which I formed was of necessity that the Reich Physician SS discharged personally most of the official work, without the cooperation of his colleagues in the building.
"Poppendick was Chief of the Personal Office of the Reich Physician SS. As such, he was neither his deputy, nor was he authorized to sign on his behalf, Poppendick's status underwent no change in the reorganization of 1943.
"As far as I can judge, Grawitz, was able to deal with his correspondence alone with his secretary, without further assistance, and according to his known methods of working, this was what he liked to do.
"I cannot remember ever having spoken of the treatment of phosporus burns with Poppendick. These discussions took place with Grawitz only.
"In 1943, several conferences of the leading Physicians took place in Grawitz' office, regarding personnel and equipment requirements. Experiments with human beings were never the subjects of these conferences."
HPO-14, an affidavit of the co-defendant Rudolf Brandt. In view of the fact that Rudolf Brandt has already been on the stand, I wish to simply draw the attention of the Tribunal to this affidavit. I shall dispense with the reading of it, because it concerns itself with the numerous affidavits that Rudolf Brandt signed regarding the other defendants. He simply admits here that his statement that Poppendick had knowledge of criminal experiments was based not on personal experience, but on the fact that he had seen documents to that effect here.
THE PRESIDENT: Does counsel offer this affidavit as an exhibit in the case?
DR. BOEHM: I have offered it as Exhibit No. 14, but I shall dispense with reading it -- correction Exhibit No. 13.
MR. HARDY: I object to this Document as being irregular, inasmuch as defense counsel had ample time to examine the witness Rudolf Brandt when he was on the witness stand.
DR. BOEHM: I nevertheless ask the court to admit this Document as evidence because I wish to use it in my closing summary.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be over-ruled and the affidavit will be admitted as evidence with the privilege of the Prosecution to cross-examine the defendant Rudolf Brandt if it desires to do so.
MR. HARDY: The Prosecution will not wish to cross examine the defendant Rudolf Brandt on this matter, inasmuch as the material of Rudolf Brandt is in the record and we have a duplication of it.
DR. BOEHM: As the next Document for the present in the presentation of my case for Poppendick, I offer Document No. HPO-15, which is on pages 41 and 42. This will be Poppendick Exhibit No. 14. This is an Excerpt from an article "The Sentencing of Internees" by Dr. Arthur Straeter, Minister of Justice, Nordrhein-Westphalia, published in the Westfalenpost, 31 January 1947. I do not intend to read anything from this Document.
This concludes my case for the time being.
THE PRESIDENT: Is counsel for defendant Wolfram Sievers ready to proceed with his case?
DR. WEISGERBER for the Defendant Wolfram Sievers: In the presentation of my case for Wolfram Sievers, I intend first of all to call my client to the stand and ask now the Tribunal's permission to do so.
THE PRESIDENT: The Defendant Wolfram Sievers will take the witness stand.
WOLFRAM SIEVERS, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn.
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
DIRECT EXAMINATION.
BY DR. WEISGERBER:
Q. Witness, your name is Wolfram Sievers and you were born 10 July 1905 in Hildesheim as the son of the church musical director Ehrhard Heinrich and Elizabeth Sievers?
A. Yes.
Q. After visiting grade school and gymnasium, you then went two years to college in Hildesheim?
A. Yes.
Q. What profession did you then choose?
A. It was my intention to become a merchant.
Q. How long were you active in this profession?
A. After two years training I was in a publishing house; from 1924 I worked until 1935 with a few interruptions in that branch.
Q. Did you carry out any private studies in addition to your profession?
A. Yes; I was interested in historical and religious questions, as well as music.
Q. Did you join any youth movements; the Pfad-finder Bund or any such movement?
A. Yes when I was in the Gymnasium, I was a member of the Wandervogel and later I joined the Pfadfinder Bund. (Boy Scouts)
Q. Did you have any leading positions in these youth organizations?
A. From 1928 on, I led a working community, it was composed of members of various youth organizations.
Q. How long were you so active?
A. Until the Nazi Party dissolved these organizations in 1933.