"In the following I submit a list of the specialists in charge of the treatment of sterility of women according to the method of Professor Clauberg:
"1. Professor Clauberg, Hospital of the Society of Workmen.
"2. Colonel SS Professor Dr. von Wolff.
"3. Major SS Professor Dr. Guenther K.F. Schultze, University Clinic for Women."
Signed, "Grawitz".
The next document is NO-211, which will be Prosecution Exhibit No. 169. The date on this letter appears on page 54 of the English document book; it is 30 May 1942. It is a letter from Professor Dr. Clauberg, Chief Physician of the Gynecological Clinic of the Knappschaft Hospital and of the St. Hedwig Hospital. It is to the Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler:
"Dear Reichsfuehrer:
"In answer to my letter of 5 June 1942 concerning the Research Institute for Biological Propagation, I received at that time by return mail the answer of your personal adjutant, SS Sturmbannfuehrer Brandt, dated 19 June 1942, saying that you, Reichsfuehrer, would come back to my expose as soon as possible. Without any doubt the far more important events of the war which happened shortly afterwards prevented this.
"If I may remind you briefly, the continuation of my work had been rendered impossible because of the problem of carrying out the procurement of female concentration camp in inmates. At the occasion of a scientific discussion with the Stabsfuehrer of your office here, SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. Arlt, I also happened to speak about my research activities in the field of biological propagation. Dr. Arlt told me then that the one person in Germany today who would be particularly interested in those matters and who would be able to help me would be you, most honorable Reichsfuehrer. In his capacity as a member of the SS and Stabsfuehrer of your office here, I then told him briefly that I had already submitted this matter to you.
"After this discussion, I most obediently take the liberty of asking you to make it possible for me to carry out these tasks here in Upper Silesia.
"In order to explain what would be necessary at the moment-- that is, at least for the time being--the two most urgent questions and fundamental problems should be stated briefly once more:
"A. In the question of the positive population policy, the eventual or most probable importance of agriculture, for the female capacity for propagation demands clarification.
"With reference to B"--which is, of course, the negative population policy--" sterilization with operation.
"1. Occasional special billeting for five to ten women--single f** rooms or rooms for two persons--corresponding to the conditions of sick rooms.
"2. Special X-Ray apparatus with installation and accessories.
"3. Smaller outfit of instruments and material.
"Reichsfuehrer: Without wishing to anticipate your decision, I am taking the liberty of proposing that the experiments necessary for A and B be carried out at the Auschwitz concentration camp and that the facilities there be used. As I already told you in the course of our oral conversation, I would be very much pleased to work under you as head of an experimental institute, directed exclusively by you. I believe that in view of the procurement of the land, the necessary animals, the attending personnel, and the human material to be provided, an annex to your camp in Upper Silesia would offer the best facilities. Cash would be needed only for the procurement of:
"With reference to A:
"1. Animal material.
"2. Material for the animals' stables and shelters.
"3. A conscientious working person to attend them.
"With reference to B:
"4. Special accommodations for five to ten female camp inmates undergoing experiments.
"5. Eventually a special X-Ray installation." And lastly, "6. Smaller outfit of instruments and material.
"Reichsfuehrer: The explanations and dispositions made here are related to the fact that the most necessary and most urgent means for the solution of this problem should once be created and set in motion. My suggestions are absolutely adapted to the present time and attempt to meet the circumstances. As one problem arises from the other, or, I should rather say, as many further problems arise from one and from there new ones will arise, the ideal pattern of such a 'Research Institution of the Reichsfuehrer SS for Biological Propagation', the establishment of which is to be considered, would present itself as an entity, on the one hand far greater in scope, on the other hand more concentrated and closely knit in scope. Enclosed a short sketch is added as a suggestion for that purpose. This suggestion is to demonstrate the possibility of realization of all the thoughts discussed and submitted to you.
"Heil Hitler.
"Your most obedient, Professor Clauberg."
I think it is unnecessary to read this draft of the Research Institute for Biological Propagation. It repeats in large part what he has already stated, and it outlines again what will be needed for his great and worthy project of learning how to most effectively sterilize helpless women in concentration camps. And it is most interesting to note how he attempts to flatter the Reichsfuehrer by stating that he will found this biological institute and name it after the Reichsfuehrer SS, and what great things it is going to do.
We turn now to document No-216, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 170. This is a file memorandum dated July 1942. It is signed by the defendant Rudolf Brandt, Note: "Top Secret".
"On July, 7, 1942, a discussion took place between the Reichsfuehrer SS, SS Brigadefuehrer Professor Dr. Gebhardt, SS Brigadefuehrer Gluecks and SS Brigadefuehrer Klaubert, Koenigshuette. Topic of the discussion was the sterilization of Jewesses. The Reichsfuehrer SS has promised SS Brigadefuehrer Professor Klauberg that the Auschwitz concentration camp will be at his disposal for his experiments on human beings and animals. By means of some fundamental experiments a method should be found which would lead to sterilization of persons without their knowledge.
The Reichsfuehrer SS wanted to get another report as soon as the result of these experiments would become known, so that the sterilization of Jewesses could then be carried out in actuality.
"It should also be examined, preferably in cooperation with Professor Dr. Hohlfelder, and X-Ray specialist in Germany, in what way sterilization of men could be achieved by X-Ray treatment.
"The Reichsfuehrer SS called the special attention of all gentlemen present to the fact that the matter involved was most secret and should be discussed only with the officers in charge, and that the persons present at the experiments or discussions had to pledge secrecy."
Signed, "Brandt".
This document very clearly indicates the purpose behind these sterilization experiments. They were hunting for the most effective, for the cheapest, way to wipe out the Jewish race by means of sterilization. It involved the crime of genocide, and not simply the crime of sterilization.
THE PRESIDENT: At this time the Tribunal will recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken).
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. DANIEL SHILLER: Your Honors, the attorneys for the prosecution are unexpectedly delayed for a few minutes. Im am sure they will be here in a moment or two.
MR. McHANEY: If the Tribunal please, the next document is NO-213, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 171. That is a letter from the defendant Rudolf Brandt to Professor Clauberg. It's dated 10 July 1942.
"Dear Professor:
"Today the Reichsfuehrer-SS charged me with transmitting on his wish that you go to Ravensbruck after you have had another talk with SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl and the Camp Physician of the women's concentration camp Ravensbruck, in order to perform there the sterilization of the Jewesses according to your method.
"Before you start your job, the Reichsfuehrer-SS would be interested to learn from you how long it would take to sterilize a thousand Jewesses. The Jewesses themselves should not know anything about it. As the Reichsfuehrer-SS understands it, you could give the appropriate injections during a general examination.
"Thorough experiments should be conducted to investigate the effect of the sterilization largely in a way, that you find out after a certain time, which you would have to fix, perhaps by X-Rays, what kind of changes have taken place. In the one or the other case, a practical experiment might be arranged by locking up a Jewess and a Jew together for a certain period and to see then what results are achieved thereby.
"I ask you to let me know your opinion about my letter for the information of the Reichsfuehrer-SS.
"Heil Hitler!
"Signed: Brandt, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer."
The second copy of this letter went to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl in Berlin" with the request to acknowledge. SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Koggel also got a copy for the information of the Camp Physician. Moreover, the Reich Physician-SS and the Reich Main Security Office got a copy."
The third copy went to SS-Gruppenfuehrer Grawitz, the Reich Physician SS.
A fourth copy, to Koegel in the WVHA; and the Fifth copy to the Reich Main Security Office for again SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Guenther in Office IV B 4, which is noted as the Department for Jews.
And a handwritten note SS-Gruppenfuehrer Mueller, who is also in the Reich Main Security Office, with the initial Dr. which is the defendant Brandt.
This letter again indicates the true purpose of these sterilization experiments, and here the defendant Rudolf Brandt is suggesting that they carry out experiments on a thousand Jewesses to see just how long it would take before the method was applied on a large scale to wipe out the Jewish race. And he even goes further and makes the abominable suggestion that in order to determine the effectiveness of the sterilization upon the unsuspecting Jewess, that she and another Jew be put together in a room to see what effect this sterilization method had upon her.
I turn now to Document NO-215 which is another file note. This is dated 11 July 1942. There is no signature on the document; however, I think without question, that it was written by the defendant Rudolf Brandt, and we see the typed initials under the date in the lower left hand corner, "Bra/Dr," which very likely means Dr. Brandt -- the defendant Rudolf Brandt being called a doctor of law. This document will be Prosecution Exhibit 172.
"On 8 July 1942, the Reichsfuehrer-SS, had a conversation with SS Brigadefuehrer Gluecks, SS-Brigadefuehrer Gebhardt and Professor Clauberg.
"The subject of this conversation was the sterilization of Jewesses in concentration camps on a large scale. It was agreed that the Auschwitz camp will be put at the disposal of Professor Clauberg as an experimental station. After the initial experiments, the Reichsfuehrer-SS desires to have a report for the practical realization of sterilizations on a larger scale.
"Moreover, the eventual consultation of Professor Hohlfelder as an X-Rayspecialist to try sterilization of men by X-Ray treatment was discussed.
"Altogether the Reichsfuehrer-SS agrees that all necessary material will be made available to Professor Clauberg, for all experiments he intends to make."
The Court will note that this Prosecution Exhibit 172 is quite similar to the file note which we put in under Prosecution Exhibit 170, the name of Hohlfelder as the X-Ray specialist who will turn up again in the proof on the extermination of the tubercular Pole. The Court should not conclude that because of the kind of X-ray mentioned in some of these documents dealing with the Clauberg method, that this was a sterilization by means of X-Ray. I think the fact is that his method of sterilization was through the injection of some sort of solution into the uterus; and frequently in order to determine how far the solution had penetrated, X-Rays were taken.
The next document is NO-212, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 173, and here the good Dr. Clauberg is finally reporting on how long it takes to sterilize a thousand Jewesses This is a letter by Clauberg to Himmler. It is dated 7 June 1943. "Dear Reichsfuehrer: Today I am fulfilling my obligation to report to you from time to time about the state of my research work. In doing this I am -- as before -- adhering to my procedure to report only if the matter is essential. The fact that -- after my most recent interview in July 1942 -- I could not do so before today, is due to temporary difficulties in detail against which I myself was powerless, and with which I could not bother you, Reichsfuehrer. I mention as an example that only since February 1943 am I in possession of an X-ray installation, which is of great value to my special research. In spite of the short period of actually only 4 months, it is already today possible to report to you, Reichsfuehrer, the following: The method I contrived, to achieve the sterilization of the female organism without any operation, is as good as perfected. It can be performed by a single injection made from the entrance of the uterus in the course of the usual customary gynaecologic examination as known to every physician. If I say that the method is 'as good as perfected', this means: 1.) Still to be worked out are only minor improvements of the method. 2.) Already today it could be put to practical use in the course of our regular eugenic sterilizations and could thus replace the operation. As to the question which you, Reichsfuehrer, asked me almost one year ago, that is to say, how much time would probably be required to sterilize 1000 women by using this method, today I can answer you with regard to the future as follows: If my researches continue to have the same result as up to now -- and there is no reason to doubt that -then the moment is no longer far off when I can say: 'by one adequately trained physician in one adequately equipped place with perhaps 10 assistants (the number of assistants in conformity with the desired acceleration) most likely several hundred -- if not even 1000 per day'. Please permit me to postpone my report about the other part of my researches (positive population policy) because it will take some time until something essential can be said in this field.
Reichsfuehrer! The main reason for my reporting to you just today (that means shortly before the possibility of even more final results) is the following: I know that the settlement of the last part of this particular complex of problems -- in contrast to the external forces which determined the progress so far -depends now almost entirely on me. In this connection, several minor but nevertheless fundamental changes would be necessary which only you, my dear Reichsfuehrer, can personally direct and order. I had hoped that I would be able to give you personally a short description of these requirements in the event of a visit to Oberschlesion. Since I did not have this opportunity until now, I am asking you today for your decision. In addition I should like to make a further request. It was SS-Brigadefuehrer Do. Blumenreuter who finally managed to get me the one suitable X-ray installation. I am in urgent need of another installation of the same kind and he informed me in February that he had such another one stored in Berlin. He was ready to deliver it to me if I would secure your approv** May I ask you, Reichsfuehrer, for this approval? Heil Hitler Signed:
Clauberg.
Here we see, although he has made little or no progress on his positive population policy, which was the study of food and its effect upon propagation, he has made considerable progress in his negative population policy or the policy of genecide, and he is here able to report that from 200 to even a thousand Jewesses could be sterilized in one day by his method.
I turn now to Document NO-210, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 174. This is a letter from Professor Clauberg to the defendant, Rudolf Brandt. It is dated 6 August 1943.
"Dear Obersturmbannfuehrer: Enclosed you will find a receipt for your letter to me of 19 June 1943, in response to a reminder referring to it dated 22 July 1943. I have to beg your pardon for the delayed sending in of this receipt; I overlooked the slip, which was attached to the inner side of the envelope, and therefore it remained unnoticed - a consequence of my lack of experience. With reference to your letter 19 June '43, I want to thank you very much for it. Since the Reichsfuehrer has not yet been here, I should like to remark the following: I really do need the second X-ray installation -- I can give you the explanation only by word of mouth. At any rate, the probability exists that even more of the installations will be needed later on (it depends on the kind of application of my results the moment these are fixed). For I can get the installation without further difficulties, that is, it is 'waiting' for me -- really I have got it already I had the opportunity to acquire one myself and I quickly laid hands on it, and the installation is set up for some weeks. But what I care for is the followings: I urgently need this installation here in Koenigshuette for my contrary (positive) research. But I cannot spare it in Auschwitz until I get a second installation from the Waffen SS. If I may tell you something between ourselves -- the fact is that I will be able to replace this my own existing installation provided the Reichsfuehrer SS will give me his approval for it, and okays it. I would not bother either him or you with this unless it would be really necessary. There is another point: In Auschwitz they got used during my absence to using the original installation for other purposes, too.
Although I don't like this I cannot blame the gentlemen there because the X-ray installation there is in bad condition. I cannot tell you tho whole story by writing and I also ask you to regard this letter of mine as purely personal. At any rate, I would be extremely obliged to you -- and you really would further the good cause -- if you would help me to get the permission for the second installation (which, as I mentioned beforehand, already exists). I would be thankful if you would answer soon. I ask you to give my most obedient regards to the Reichsfuehrer SS! The best regards to yourself'. Heil Hitler! Your obedient Professor Clauberg."
It is quite apparent why he doesn't tell the defendant Rudolf Brandt the full story in this letter. In the first place, it is quite apparent that the defendant Rudolf Brandt already knew the whole story and need not have it repeated in this letter. It is quite clear that he was using this X-ray installation in Auschwitz to further the sterilization of Jewesses there and he speaks of wanting the second X-ray installation for his positive research in contrast to the negative research being done at Auschwitz, and he goes to his friend and influential assistant, to Heinrich Himmler, and asks him to arrange for that; that is to say, the defendant Rudolf Brandt.
This, Your Honors, completes the presentation of proof on the sterilization experiments at this time. I think there will be occasion at a later stage in the trial for the Court to either hear testimony from the stand or by way of affidavits dealing with sterilizations conducted on women in the Ravensbruck concentration camp by the Clauberg method, but at this time we would like to call to the stand the witness Heinrich Stoehr, who will testify, among other things, with respect to the phlegmone experiments at Dachau as well as the seawater experiments.
THE PRESIDENT: Marshal, call the witness Heinrich Atoehr.
HEINRICH STOEHR, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
BY JUDGE SEBRING:
Q. Do you answer to the name of Heinrich Wilhelm Stoehr
A. Yes.
Q. You will hold up your right hand and be sworn on oath as a witness. Repeat after me.
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE SEBRING: Be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HARDING:
Q. Witness, your name is Heinrich Wilhelm Stoehr, is it not?
A. Yes.
Q. When and where were you born?
A. On the 12th of September, 1904 in Weisenburg, Bavaria.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am an employee at the General Insurance Company in Middle Franconia.
Q. At the present time are you a member of the legislative body of Bavaria?
A. Yes.
Q. What political party do you represent?
A. I belong to the Social Democratic Party of Germany.
Q. Witness, what is your present address?
A. Weisenburg, Bavaria, Steinlinsfurth, 26.
Q. Witness, when were you first arrested by the Nazis?
A. In the spring of 1934.
Q. Witness, kindly tell the High Tribunal why you were arrested by the Nazis in 1934?
A. Soon after the seizure of power by Hitler I put myself at the disposal of my party in order to carry out the illegal work, and I smuggled illegal newspapers into Germany from Czechoslovakia. After a short time I was arrested by the police.
Q. After being arrested for this illegal activity against the Nazi party, were you sentenced to prison?
A. I was sentenced to five and a half years in the penitentiary by the Penal Court in Munich.
Q. Did you fulfill that prison term of five and a half years?
A. Yes.
Q. Then were you re-arrested by the Nazis?
A. I was not released and immediately after leaving the penitentiary I was transferred into the concentration camp of Dachau.
Q. At the time that you were sent to the concentration camp Dachau, were you told the reason why you were sent there?
A. No.
Q. While in custody at Dachau, were you persecuted as a political prisoner?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you first arrive at the concentration camp Dachau?
A. That must have been in April 1940.
Q. When were you released from the Dachau concentration camp?
A. I was liberated by the French and I was at that time situated in a side camp of the main camp of Dachau.
Q. Witness, you have told us that you arrived at Dachau in the spring of 1940. What duties were assigned to you in the concentration camp?
A. For a few weeks I worked at a garage and I was then transferred to the hospital as a male nurse.
Q. You say that you became a male nurse at the Dachau concentration camp hospital?
A. Yes.
Q. What time, what date did you become a male nurse?
A. That probably was in August or September, 1940.
Q. Did you retain this position as male nurse in the camp hospital until the liberation?
A. Until approximately six weeks before the liberation.
Q. Then, is I understand you correctly, you were a nurse in the camp hospital from the summer of 1940 until April of 1945?
A. Until February, 1945 in Dachau and I was then transferred to another camp outside Dachau. In order to escape the fate of my comrades who were there at that time and who were put into SS uniform and sent towards the front, in order to escape that fate I went into another camp.
Q. Did you at one time become the chief nurse in the surgical department of the camp hospital?
A. At the end of 1941 I became the chief station nurse at the surgical station.
Q. Witness, in the course of your duties, did you acquire any knowledge of medical experiments on inmates of Dachau camp?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know about the sea water experiments conducted in Dachau?
A. Yes, I learned about them.
Q. When were these experiments conducted?
A. If I remember correctly, it was in the summer of 1944.
Q. Were these seawater experiments carried out in the same block in which you were working?
A. Yes.
Q. How did you gain your knowledge of the sea-water experiments? That is, witness, through personal observation, from other personnel working on the experiments, or purely from hearsay?
A. I saw the patients who were living there. I saw them daily in the courtyard, and I received knowledge and I was told about them by nurses who were working there.
Q. Witness, will you kindly tell the Tribunal in your own words the details of the sea-water experiments as you know them?
A. I learned that these patients received nothing to eat for many days and I still remember very clearly that these patients -- there were approximate ly 50 who as far as I know came from the concentration camp Auschqitz especially for that purpose -- I remember that one day they attacked the nurse because they could no longer stand their hunger. The nurse who was thus attacked was transferred from the station, and another one was substituted.
Q. How many people or prisoners were used for these experiments?
A. I think there were approximately 50 people who were used.
Q. Were these prisoners Gypsies?
A. Yes.
Q. I understand you to say that these prisoners were not selected from the Dachau inmates but came from Auschwitz. Witness, is that correct?
A. I learned at that time that they were especially sent to Dachau from Auschwitz for that purpose.
Q. Who conducted these sea-water experiments, witness?
A. As far as I remember, they were officers and personnel of the Luftwaffe.
Q. What effect did these sea-water experiments have on the victims used?
A. I do not know that, since I did not work in that room. I think that it was mostly starvation from which these people were suffering.
Q. Did you at any time ever hear what happened to these people used in these experiments?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether or not any of these people were seriously injured as a result of these experiments.
A. I don't know that.
Q. Witness, did you ever hear of the sepsis or phlegmone experiments at Dachau concentration on camps?
A. Yes, these experiments were conducted at my station.
Q. How did you gain your knowledge of these phlegmone experiments? Were you an observer? Were you an assisting nurse, or by what way did you gain the knowledge you have of these phlegmone experiments?
A. I was the nurse at that station. One day -- I think it was in the late summer and fall of 1943 -- a certain Sturmbannfuehrer Schuetz came to me and also a Standartenfuehrer with the name of Laue or Lauer; I am not quite sure which -- and inspected the surgical department. He was shown a number patients; that is, we had to take their bandages off, and he examined their wounds. That is, he just looked at them very superficially. After that, the chief physician of the concentration camp Dachau, Dr. *olda, was called and he received the order to see to it that the patients received biochemical treatment for some time.
Q. Witness, will you kindly explain to the Tribunal in what manner these phlegmone experiments were conducted; that is, the details of the experiments? What did they do to the victim?
A. Mainly phlegmone was treated. It was very general in the camp. That is, phlegmone was the typical camp disease. The bio-chemical treatment was carried out in the following manner:
Three similar cases were observed. One of these cases was allopathic; the other one was bio-chemical, and the third one received only ordinary surgical treatment. That is, the third one received no drugs whatsoever, an where the wound was treated ordinarily with bandages and so on. These were the directives of the physicians who were thee. We saw that on many occasions the patient was cured much faster who had received no drugs or injections.
Experiments of that kind were conducted for many weeks, and if I may a layman make a judgment, I must say that the physicians, according to my observations, were not satisfied with these experiments.
In addition, I have to emphasize that not only wounds were treated according to these methods, but internal diseases, too. They tried to find whether bio-chemical treatment was suitable for treating the thirst for water which was so frequent in the camp. We saw that the bio-chemical drugs had no influence whatsoever as to the cause of this illness.
I emphasize that I am speaking as a layman and that all these are my observations.
During the fall, this Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Schuetz told them camp doctor by the name of Babo to infect a number of people with pus. We as nurses were told nothing about that, and we did not know what it concerned. These experiments were conducted on a group of men, and they extended over a period of approximately six to seven weeks.
Firstly, a group of Germans were infected with pus, and we nurses had no idea about the cause of that illness, and we gave the patients those drugs that were ordered by the physicians. I emphasize again that half of these people received allopathic and the other half bio-chemical treatment. As nurses, we could see the following things:
Every patient who received allopathical treatment were cured much quicker, that is, if they had any power of resistance with reference to their illness but the patient who had to take these pathological tablets, if I remember correctly, died with the exception of one person. There were approximately 20 persons who, at that time, were infected. The second group consisted of 40 clergymen belonging to all nations who were at that time in the group and fraternity brothers. These patients were selected in the block where all clergymen lived. They were selected by the Chief Physician Dr. Walda and were sent to the operational room of the concentration camp Dachau and were operated on by Dr. Schuetz and Dr. Kieselwetter. I think that was his name, and these experiments were conducted on them. A number of nurses and also the personnel of the operating room and I saw how they were injected in that manner. We were standing in the ante-room of the operating room.
Q. Witness, will you explain to the Tribunal what phlegmone means? Will you explain to the Tribunal what the word "phlegmone" means?
A. Phlegmone, as far as a layman can answer that question--phlegmone means an inflammation of the tissues and in the camp of Dachau these phlegmone were very numerous because the people there were mostly sent to the hospital too late. The phlegmones, as far as I know, that the typical camp phlegmone are a consequence of the germs. All such persons received phlegmones who suffered from lack of water.
Q. Witness, did you say that inmates were used for experiments in which they were injected with pus?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see these injections of pus being administered?
A. Yes.
Q. How were the inmates to be used for these experiments selected?
A. I didn't quite understand your question.
Q. In what manner did they select the inmates to be used for these experiments which dealt with the injection of pus? In other words, how did they select? What type of prisoner? What were their nationalities, etc.?
A. They were 40 persons coming from the so-called clergymen block.
Q. Were these inmates used for these experiments with injection of pus healthy inmates?
A. Completely healthy and strong men.
Q. Now, you have told us that they had one group, the first group, of ten Germans. How many died in that group?
A. I believe that the first group consisted of ten people of whom, as far as I remember, seven died.
Q. Now, you have told us of a second group of forty clergymen. How many died in that group?
A. I have seen a list of the survivors and according to that list 12 clergymen or rather fraternity brothers must have died.
Q. Were any prisoners of war used in these experiments? Would you please repeat your answer, witness?
A. I don't know whether they were prisoners of war or not. We could not differentiate in the camp of Dachau and see whether they were prisoners of war or not. At least I couldn't.
Q. Were the victims used in these experiments treated by medical doctor after they had been injected with pus?
A. Yes, they were treated by physicians. Yes, the operative work were made by physicians.
Q. Well, after they had been infected with pus what kind of treatment was given to them?
A. After the injection Sturmbannfuehrer Schuetz gave the directive to the nurses instructing them that one half of them should receive allopathical and the other half biological treatment. I emphasize that the group which received allophatical treatment had special drugs, the so-called sulfanilamide trugs as that is called. We had the impression that the physicians wanted to prove that the biological drugs were not suitable to cure such a severe disease.
Q. Then you say, witness, that fifty percent were treated with sulfanilamide and the other fifty percent with biological medicants?
A. Yes.