Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal IV-A in the matter of the United States of America against Ernst von Weizsaecher, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 20 December 1947, 1000-1040, Justice William C. Christianon, presiding.
THE MARSHAL:The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal IV-A.
Military Tribunal IV-A is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT:The Tribunal will now proceed with the arraignment of the defendants in Case No. 11 now pending before this Tribunal. Mr. Secretary-General, will you call the roll of the defendants.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Each defendant will rise and answer "present" when his name is called. He will then remain standing until the roll call has been completed.
Defendant Ernst von Weizsaecher Defendant Gustav Adolf Steengracht von Moyland Defendant Wilhelm Keppler Defendant Ernst Wilhelm Bohle Defendant Ernst Woermann Defendant Karl Ritter Defendant Otto von Erdmannsdorff Defendant Edmund Veesenmayer Defendant Hans Heinrich Lammers Defendant Wilhelm Stuckart Defendant Richard Walther Darre Defendant Otto Meissner May it pleas the Tribunal, the Marshal has informed me that Otto Meissner is sick in the hospital.
Defendant Otto Dietrich Defendant Gottlob Berger Defendant Waiter Schellenberg Defendant Lutz Schwerin von Krosigk Defendant Emil Puhl Defendant Karl Rasche Defendant Paul Koerner Defendant Paul Pleiger Defendant Hans Kehrl All the defendants will be seated.
THE PRESIDENT:Mr. Secretary-General, you will now call the defendants one by one for the arraignment.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: May it please this honorable Tribunal, the defendants are all present in the dock except Otto Meissner, sick in hospital.
Each defendant will rise when his name is called and answer the questions asked him by the Tribunal and speak directly into the microphone.
DR.KUBUSCHOK (for the defendant Rasche): Speaking in behalf of most of the defense counsel, and I have submitted a motion to the Court requesting them to regard the Indictment handed in by the Prosecution as inadequate. I have been informed that the Tribunal will -
THE PRESIDENT:Just a moment, counsel. Are you intending to speak on the merits of a motion this morning relative to the Indictment?
DR. KUBUSCHOK:The Secretary-General has informed me that the Tribunal does not wish me to discuss the motion today. I shall, therefore, confine myself to announce the motion here in Court and hand it to the Secretary--General.
In this motion, I have further stated that the individual defense counsels will deal with those counts referring to their defendants and will show that they do not regard the indictment to be duly substantiated. I would, like to point out briefly that the motion claims that the Indictment does not substantiate the counts of the Indictment sufficiently and that therefore the defendants are scarcely in a position to plead guilty or not guilty, such as it should correspond with the seriousness of this trial.
THE PRESIDENT:We are glad to advise that the motion has been made, but we will not hear an argument on the merits this morning. Defense counsel, of course, is entitled to a two day defense. We have not received the motions as yet. The Court dots not have them before us; so further than advising us that a motion has been made, we will not entertain any argument on that sort of motion this morning. Your motion will receive consideration when filed and when answered within the proper time by the Prosecution counsel.
DR. KARLHAENSEL (for the defendant Steengracht): May it please the tribunal, may I draw the Tribunal's attention to the fact that if the defendants are not to plead guilty or not guilty, they will rely on the summons which they received yesterday. This summons says that they are to express their opinion regarding the Indictment of the Secretary-General of 4 November 1947. I do not know whether it is intended that the later Indictment, dated 17 of November, has been left out in this connection; whether, in other words, the old Indictment of 4 November has perhaps been revived and the new one has been dropped. Perhaps a statement could be made about this before they plead guilty or not guilty.
THE PRESIDENT:I think we will hear Prosecution counsel for just a moment on that.
GENERAL TAYLOR:May it please the Court, the Prosecution has filed a statement with the Tribunal that the amended Indictment of 15 November supersedes and replaces the one filed on November 1, and the Indictment filed on November 1 is to be disregarded. A written statement to this effect was filed with the Tribunal at the time of the amended Indictment.
THE PRESIDENT:Mr. Secretary-General, I think you may proceed with the calling of the defendants. Just a moment, apparently the defense counsel wish to say something.
DR.BECKER (for the defendant von Weizsaecker): I beg to make the motion to appoint Mr. Warren E. Macee, attorney of Washington as co-defense counsel for Herr von Weizsaecker.
I have brought along an exact explanation as to why I make this motion and shall hand it to the Court.
THE PRESIDENT:We will not pass on that matter at the moment. You are represetning the defendant named now, are you not?
DR. BECKER:Yes.
DR. ELIZABETHGOMBEL (Assistant to Dr. Achenbach for the defendant Bohle): At first I want to excuse Dr. Achenbach who has not been in a position to come into Court today, because his driver and one of his secretaries have been killed in a car accident at Neustadt last night.
THE PRESIDENT:Are you representing him?
DR. GOMBEL:Yes, I am representing him, I am his assistant defense counsel.
THE PRESIDENT:That will be noted.
DR. GOMBEL:On behalf of my clients I herewith submit to the record of the Court a motion to strike it out on the grounds that the Indictment is not sufficiently substantiated.
THE PRESIDENT:That will be taken up in the usual course.
Now, Mr. Secretary-General, you may proceed.
THESECRETARY*GENERAL: Each defendant will rise when his name is called and answer the Questions asked him by the Tribunal and speak directly into the microphone.
Defendant Ernst von Weizsaecker
THE PRESIDENT:Defendant Ernst von Weizsaecker, have you counsel?
ERNST von Weizsaecker: Would you please repeat that?
THE PRESIDENT:Have you counsel to represent you?
ERNST von WEIZSAECKER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
ERNST von WEIZSAECKER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Have you read the Indictment?
DRNST von WEIZSAECKER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Defendant Ernst von Weizsaecker, how do you. plead to this Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
ERNST von WEIZSAECKER: Will you please repeat? I didn't understand you. Your are speaking too fast.
THE PRESIDENT:How do you plead to this Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
ERNST von WEIZSAECHER: I am not guilty.
THE PRESIDENT:You may be seated.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Defendant Gustav Adolf Steengracht von Moyland.
THE PRESIDENT:Defendant Gustav Adolf Steengracht von Moyland, have you counsel?
GUSTAV ADOLFSTEENGRACHT von MOYLAND: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
GUSTAV ADOLTSTEENGRACHT von MOYLAND: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Have you read the Indictment?
GUSTAV ADOLFSTEENGRACHT von MOYLAND: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:How do you plead to the Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
GUSTAV ADOLFSTEENGRACHT von MOYLAND: I am not guilty.
THE PRESIDENT:You may be seated.
THE SECRETARY GENERAL:Defendant Wilhelm Keppler.
THE PRESIDENT:Defendant Wilhelm Keppler, have you counsel?
WILHELM KEPPLER:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
WILHELM KEPPLER:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Have you read the Indictment?
WILHELM KEPPLER:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:How do you plead to this Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
WILHELM KEPPLER:I am not guilty.
THE PRESIDENT:You may be seated.
THEECRETARY-GENERAL: Defendant Ernst Wilhelm Bohle.
THE PRESIDENT:Defendant Ernst Wilhelm Bohle, have you counsel?
ERNST WILHELM BOHLE:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Has a copy of the Indictment in the German language been served, upon you at least 30 days ago?
ERNST WILHELM BOHLE:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Have you read the Indictment?
ERNST WILHELM BOHLE:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:How do you plead to the Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
ERNST WILHELM BOHLE:Not guilty.
THE PRESIDENT:You may he seated.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Defendant Ernst Woermann.
THE PRESIDENT:Defendant Ernst Woermann, have you counsel?
ERNST WOERMANN:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
ERNST WOERMANN:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Have you read the Indictment?
ERNST WOERMANN:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:How do you plead to the Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
ERNST WOERMANN:Not guilty.
THE PRESIDENT:You may be seated.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Defendant Karl Ritter.
THE PRESIDENT:Defendant Karl Ritter, have you counsel?
KARL RITTER:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
KARL RITTER:Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:How do you plead to the Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
KARL RITTER:Not guilty.
THE PRESIDENT:You may be seated.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Otto von Erdmannsdorff.
THE PRESIDENT:Defendant Otto von Erdmannsdorff, have you counsel?
OTTO von ERDMANNSDORFF: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
OTTO von ERDMANNSDORFF: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:Have you read the Indictment?
OTTO von ERDMANNSDORFF: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:How do you plead to the Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
OTTO von ERDMANNSDORFF: Not guilty.
THE PRESIDENT:You may be seated.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Defendant Edmund Veesenmayer.
JUDGE POWERS:Defendant Edmund Vessenmayer, have you counsel?
EDMUND VEESENMAYER:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
EDMUND VEESENMAYER:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Have you read the Indictment?
EDMUND VEESENMAYER:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Defendant Edmund Veesenmayer, how do you plead to this Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
EDMUND VEESENMAYER:Not guilty.
JUDGE POWERS:You may be seated.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Defendant Hans Heinrich Lammers.
JUDGE POWERS:Defendant Hans Heinrich Lammers, have you counsel?
FANS HEINRICH LAMMERS:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
HANS HEINRICH LAMMERS:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Have you read the Indictment?
HANS HEINRICH LAMMERS:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Defendant Hans Heinrich Lammers, how do you plead to this Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
HANS HEINRICH LAMMERS:Not guilty.
JUDGE POWERS:You may be seated.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Defendant Wilhelm Stuckart.
JUDGE POWERS:Defendant Wilhelm Stuckart, have you counsel?
WILHELM STUCKART:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
WILHELM STUCKART:Yes.
CourtIV -A-, Case XI
JUDGE POWERS:Defendant Wilhelm Stuckart, how do you plead to this Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
WILHLEM STUCKART:Not guilty.
JUDGE POWERS:You may be seated.
THESECRETARY-GENERAL: Defendant Richard Walther Darre.
JUDGE POWERS:Defendant Richard Walther Darre, have you counsel?
RICHARD WALTHER DARRE:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Has the Indictment in the German language been served upon you at least 30 days ago?
RICHARD WALTHER DARRE:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Have you read the Indictment.
RICHARD WALTHER DARRE:Yes.
JUDGE POWERS:Defendant Richard Walther Darre, how do you plead to the Indictment, guilty or not guilty?
RICHARD WALTHER DARRE:Not guilty.
JUDGE POWERS:You may be seated.
DR.SAUTER (for the defendant Otto Meissner): The defendant Dr. Meissner should be the next one to be called in the dock. He is in a rather special position. It was only last month that he was operated on his eyes and he is now in the hospital. I saw him yesterday and I asked him how he intended to plead today. He requested me and authorized me to declare here on his behalf that he received the Indictment more than 30 days ago, that it was read to him, and that he wishes to plead here that he is not guilty. This is the statement I wish to make on behalf of Dr. Meissner, who is absent.
If the Tribunal please, I would appreciate it if in this connection I would be allowed to make amotion on behalf of Dr. Meissner connected with the further proceedings of his case. I stated before that the defendant Dr. Meissner was recently operated on his eyes and in January or February he will have to undergo a second operation on his eyes, which will be the main operation, because otherwise there is dnager of complete blindness. He, therefore, will not be in a position in the nest few weeks to appear in Court here, and I, therefore, on behalf of Dr. Meissner beg to make the motion that the Tribunal would kindly excuse Dr. Meissner from being present in these proceedings.
I shall take care that Dr. Meissner will daily be informed either through me or through one of my assistants of the records of these proceedings and also of the documents submitted by the Prosecution. They will be read to him. He will then either tell me or one of my assistants what his comments are regarding these documents either to me or to one of my assistants. He will dictate these things to me; otherwise there is no practical possibility of taking care of his case. This is how we shall be certain that in some time to come when Dr. Meissner's health will permit, he will be able to appear in person before this Tribunal and testify on the witness stand. This is how we shall on the one hand not prevent these proceedings from taking their course, and on the other, the interests of the defendant Dr. Meissner will be suitably safeguarded.
I believe that the Prosecution, in view of these conditions, will be agreeable to this idea, and I should be grateful to the Tribunal if they would express their agreement to this suggestion. I shall also inform the Court as soon as Dr. Meissner will be in a position to appear before this Tribunal and I shall see to it that this will occur as soon as possible.
JUDGE POWERS:Does the Prosecution have anything to spy on this motion?
GENERAL TAYLOR:The Prosecution, of course, has no objection to any course that the medical authorities recommend to the Tribunal as necessary. We think that in the defendant's own interests he should be present in the court as much as is possible under the medical circumstances, but beyond that, we concur with Dr. Sauter's recommendation.
JUDGE POWERS:I understand that the introduction of evidence will not be taken up for several days in any event, and the Court will take this matter under advisement and confer with counsel about their conclusions if that is agreeable,