MR. PETERSEN:If the Court please, I would ask that the witness refrain from reading from prepared notes.
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:Well, he is keeping -- This is a petrel matter; we are not getting down to specific facts, Perhaps ultimately we will; I hope so.
This is being extended, Doctor, a little bit more than is necessary, are not interested -- and it is not relevant -- in the general conditions in Soviet Russia either before, at that time, or later, We are interested in what the charge is in the Indictment. The Witness may, of course, give some statement as to his experience, but it is not necessary to go into an essay upon conditions in Soviet Russia.
DR. FROESCHMANN:Mr. President, I was just going to take the liberty myself to ask the witness to be sure and confine himself to more specific data. However, the objection is not justified because the witness is only testifying as to his own experiences. BY DR. FROESCHMANN:
Q.Witness, I asked you just before -- and you can be very brief in answering -- what your positions were in the Soviet Union. What were the highest positions that you last hold in the Soviet Unions
A.Well. I have just told you that.
Q.Can you give us the titles?
A.I had the title of a Deputy People's Commissar for Forestry.
Q.All right. And now, witness, in order to conclude this part of your testimony, is it correct to say that, on the basis of your activity in the Soviet Union, you incurred the suspicion and distrust of the leaders of the Soviet regime, and that the GPU arrested your, put you on trial before a tribunal, and sentenced you death? And is it correct, furthermore, that after long negotiations as to whether you were to be hanged or whether you were to be shot. Stalin pardoned you? Please be very concise in commenting on that.
A.Yes, everything you have said is correct. with the exception of the fact that it was Kalinin who pardoned me and not Stalin.
Kalinin was State President. Stalin was Chairman of the Communist Party and had nothing whatsoever to do with these matters.
Q.But you knew Stalin personally, didn't you?
A.Yes, I used to attend sessions of the political Bureau, and he was my chief.
Q.Therefore, on virtue of an intervention of Russian officials you were again realized, were you not?
A.No. There were two factors that contributed to my releases First of all, Clara Zetkin, the old German Communist; and on the other hand the Foreign Office, via the German Embassy.
Q.Who was it in the Foreign Office?
A.Dirksen.
Q.And when were you returned to Germany?
A.Exactly after ten years? I returned Germany on the 2nd of April, 1934.
Q.And what happened to you in Germany under the National Socialist regime? Were you considered to be an old Communist and assigned to a concentration case
A.Yes, I was arrested on the spot and was assigned to a concentration camp.
Q.Where to?
A.Being from Wuerttemberg, it was the Hohenasberg camp
Q.You were assigned to the Hohenasberg concentration camp in Wuerttemberg. And how long did you stay in the concentration camp?
A.Up to June 1934.
Q.June 1934?
A.Yes, 1934.
Q.I don't understand. One and a half years?
A.No, oh no, this was 1934. Two months; a little more than two months.
Q.Yes; you were assigned there in 1934 and released after two months?
A.Yes, I was released after two months, because they thought that I had to establish contact with the old Communist subversive movement order of Stalin.
Q.I didn't got that.
A.The then Fuehrung, the leadership.
Q.Well, let me specify my question, First of all, two months after your arrest you were discharged.
A.Yes.
Q.And this was done by virtue of the fact that the national Socialist are game was of the opinion that in its own interests, in the interest of the NSDAP government, they thought they could use you as a liaison man and an instrument?
A.No, but much are there because the National Socialist Government was obviously of the opinion and convection that I had been entrusted with the order to relieve Thaelman, who had meanwhile been imprisoned and to further expand and promote the German subversive underground Communist movement in Germany itself. How, in order to unravel the threads and to undertake this work I was discharged from the concentration camp, but every step of mine was observed, and I was watched and spied upon and informed upon. I had no money and I had to live somehow or other, so they thought that by not giving me any work I would go in for Communist work in some form or other, and thus I would join and establish contact with illegal groups.
Q.All right, witness, and now, to conclude your personal data, I am interested in hearing the following from you. In the course of years, were you able to remain in Germany and be less and less molested officially? And when did you actually establish contact with the leading government circles in Germany?
A.When I was assigned to the Hohenasberg concentration camp I was repeatedly submitted to interrogations on conditions reigning in the Soviet Union.
I refused to testify, on the one hand because it was against my concept of honor, and on the other hand because I know that my wife was still a hostage in the hands of the Soviets, and I had to have consideration for my comrades who had intervened in my favor while I had been in the CPU prison in Moscow and who had intervened in my favor then.
Q.Did you marry under Russian law?
A.Yes, I had married under Russian public law.
Q.And your wife was then still in Russia?
A.Yes, she was a Russian national. She was a student at the university.
Q.All right, Now, how did you establish contact with government circles?
A.You are referring to the National Socialists?
Q.Yes.
A.In 1935, since I could not procure any work in Germany because of the National Socialist Agencies, it was necessary for me to again leave Germany in May of 1935. I was once again assigned to a concentration camp in the old Columbia House near Berlin, for approximately one month, because I had dared to ask for a passport authorizing my exit, and I was told, "Oh, see, see, this? You were unable to fulfill your task and now, of course, you want to take off again." In view of the fact that I was able to prove that I had been assigned to work in many instances, which had always been revoked the following day over and over again, and in view of the fact that members of German scientific institutes had intervened in my behalf saying that I was an export who could go to Turkey, to relieve a German professor in Ankara who was a professor in an agricultural institute in Turkey, I was released from Gestapo arrest and went to Turkey.
QNow just a moment, witness. As far as your activities in Turkey are concerned, I am not interested in that. When did you again return to Germany?
AI returned to Germany in 1938.
QAll right. And now I want to lead you to the actual subject under discussion. On the basis of what circumstances did it come about that you established contact with Rosenberg directly?
AIn Switzerland, when my life was threatened because I refused to voluntarily return to the Soviet Union, I had made some written statements on what I wanted to have done on the part of the trade unions in Germany and the Socialists all over the world. I wanted them to read that after my death. As to these written statements -- in view of the fact that the trial against the 22 People's Commissars had ended with a sentence of death in March of 1938, and in view of the fact that my testimony to prove their innocence was not accepted on the part of the Soviets, I was going to issue these written statements and publish them in the form of a book. In Switzerland, any political activity of mine was most emphatically prohibited.
QJust a moment. Now, your stay in Switzerland was subsequent to your stay in Turkey?
AYes, it was.
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:We haven't heard anything about Turkey before. You said Czechoslovakia and then Switzerland.
DR. FROESCHMANN:Your Honor, it must have been an error. The witness stated before that from Germany he went to Turkey. Now I have been able to varify the fact that from Turkey, via Switzerland, he again went to Germany. Is that correct, witness?
THE WITNESS:No, it wasn't Czechoslovakia; that must have been a misunderstanding.
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:Were you in Czechoslovakia?
THE WITNESS:No, Your Honor, no.
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:You went from Germany to Turkey, and from Turkey to Switzerland?
THE WITNESS:Yes, Your Honor.
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:All right, I think that is straightened up. Let's go ahead. BY DR. FROESCHMANN:
QWitness, in Switzerland you drew up a draft describing your experience in Russia, which you proposed to write in order to justify your point of view; and, after the well-known big trial against the Commissars in Russia the high state officials, which ended with death sentences, which you thought unjustified and proposed to publish a book about it?
AYes, it was to be a warning to the workers in Germany.
QNow, please maintain the contact between that book and Rosenberg so as to permit us to get along.
AThis book was not published in Switzerland, and German intermediaries made me the offer that it might be possible for the book to be published in a suitable large edition in Germany, and that I would be given a chance to appeal to the old Socialists in Germany in order to give them the truth on conditions in the Soviet Union.
QNow, was that also done with the approval of the Reich Minister of Propaganda?
AI didn't know that at that time, but afterwards I heard that it was the case.
QIn 1938 or 1939 did you establish contact with the later Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories, Rosenberg, and did you have a discussion with him in which you reported to him on the treatment of the Eastern people and attempted to render explanations to him?
AAt the end of December 1938, after my book had already been published, I was ordered to call on Rosenberg for an interview. On that occasion, throughout an entire night, Rosenberg discussed the Russian problem with me. I tried to induce Rosenberg to leave his idea, or his insanity.
QNow just a moment. In order to put this as clearly as possible, what was Rosenberg's attitude, as you became acquainted with it in that discussion, as far as the Eastern nations were concerned? And in answering my question, please bear in mind that you are to tell the Tribunal who Rosenberg was and what his mission was at that time.
AIf I am not mistaken, Rosenberg was then the Chief of the Office for the Public Ideological Orientation of the German People, and in that capacity his influence was extraordinary on the enlightenment work of Germans as far as the Eastern peoples were concerned.
QThat was a Party agency, was it not?
AYes, that was a pure Party agency at that time.
QAnd did Rosenberg himself come from the East?
AYes, he was a Baltic German.
QYou say he was a Baltic German?
AYes.
QAll right. And what impression did you gain as to Rosenberg's attitude toward the Eastern peoples?
AI gathered from Rosenberg's statements that he was living in a world which had collapsed long ago, and which was no longer a reality.
QHow do you explain that?
ARosenberg was of the conviction that all people in the Soviet Union desired to get the old Tsarist regime back into power, and he was of the opinion that the wheel of history could be turned back by 180 degrees, and that the peoples of the East were again to become agrarian people, they were to become suppliers of agricultural products, of raw materials, and semi-processed products, but nothing beyond that.
QAnd what did you tell Rosenberg on the basis of your own experience?
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:Just a moment, Dr. Froeschmann. We have been nearly forty minutes now getting up to the question of Rosenberg's name.
We are not interested in Rosenberg's ideology, we are interested in what was done by Berger in connection, or without connection, with Rosenberg. We have given a tremendous amount of latitude which I fear, in many instances, has been unintentionally abused. We must get down to the facts.
DR. FROESCHMANN:I am aware of the fact that this is a very difficult chapter to deal with, and it will be all the more difficult for the Tribunal to clarify to what extent all this examination on the part of counsel is of significance for the further evidence to be introduced in his case-in-chief. However, please permit me to say one sentence, at least. Berger is charged by the Prosecution as having been the man who implemented and who represented the Eastern policy of Rosenberg, and it is the Prosecution's challenge that this policy of Rosenberg's led to a brutal suppression of the Eastern peoples. And for that reason, Your Honors, it was my intention to introduce this unbiased witness and to prove the following: (1) What was Rosenberg's concept? ; and (2) What was the defendant Berger's concept as opposed to that? However, I assure Your Honors that I will do my best to comply with your wishes, and I will try to develop only the most substantial evidence.
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:Please do that. BY DR. FROESCHMANN:
QWitness, will you please be brief, therefore?
As far as the Eastern nations were concerned, was Rosenberg of the opinion that the Eastern peoples were to be returned to their, old activity of an agrarian people, free and independent of the Soviet; system?
AYes.
QAll right. What was Rosenberg's attitude towards your opinions? Was he accessible to them? Yes or no,
ANo.
QAnd later on, did you voice your opinions to a larger body of Party officials?
AYes.
QWhen?
AThroughout a number of years, almost up to the end of the war when it was too late, anyway.
QNo, I don't mean that. Was that in 1939, before war broke out?
AYes, certainly.
QWere you successful in your efforts?
AThe lower officials of the Party -- and I am chiefly thinking of a big lecture in Groessensee, before about eight hundred people -approved of my opinions, but the official policy of Rosenberg and the official policy of the supreme Party leadership was in absolute opposition to my ideas.
QAnd by these means did you establish contact with the Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories?
AThroughout those very few days when I had personal discussions with Rosenberg, but then he ignored me and cold-shouldered me after that.
QOn what problems?
AThe basic discrepancies of opinions; the treatment of the Eastern peoples and the development of the Eastern peoples, and the impossibility of turning the wheel of history back again.
QAnd in connection with that did you hear the name of the defendant Berger?
ANo, never; I never heard that name.
QWhat do you mean "never"?
AI never even knew that Rosenberg maintained any connections with Berger?
QUp to what year?
AUp to 1943.
QAre you able to state briefly, in one sentence, whether the Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories was a closed and independent institution of the Reich, or was, so to speak, hermetically sealed from the outside world, or did you mean to say that in the Eastern Ministry there were all possible agencies established as branches of other governmental agencies?
AThe Eastern Ministry was a strange confusion of various and conflicting interests of all Reich and Party agencies. All of them pursued their own selfish and jealous departmental views as expressed by their chiefs.
QAll right. Well, were Rosenberg and his closest entourage, with a view to these oppositions, conflicts, and influences, able to cope with them or was he a weakling?
AIn January 1943, when returning from my activity in Central Russia, I once again impressed Rosenberg with the awful, disastrous consequences of the German Eastern policy, and I begged him, I entreated him, to go to Hitler, he being the Chief of the Ministry, and to represent all these factors to him. Rosenberg said to me: "I can't do that; I won't do that. If I were to go to him, and if I were to resign from office" -- that is what I suggested to him -- "then that brute Koch will get into office, and it will be far worse than it is, for you know Koch's policy just as well as I do."
QNow, at that time did you hear that Berger was to be assigned to Rosenberg in order, so to speak, to provide to back bone to cover and help him in his opposition to Koch and all that crowd?
AI never heard Rosenberg mention the name Berger. As far as Rosenberg's entourage was concerned, at that time I heard that there was a man from the closest entourage of the Reichsfuehrer SS who was to be assigned to exercise a strong hand and to put an end to the chaos reigning in the Eastern Ministry. That is when the name of the defendant Berger was mentioned.
QIn what year?
AIn 1943.
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:Dr. Froeschmann, it is now 10:30, and the film will be running out, so we will take our morning recess.
( A recess was taken )
THE MARSHAL:Military Tribunal IV is again in session.
DR.SCHMIDT: (Counsel for the defendant Bohle) Would the Tribunal please excuse the defendant Bohle from this afternoon's sessions and have him taken to Room 57, so that he can take part in a conference there? PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE: Nothing with respect to Bohle will come up this afternoon, do you think? Very well, the defendant Bohle will be excused for this afternoon's session; direction is given that he be taken to Room 57; and counsel, you will make arrangements with other counsel to represent him in case anything shall arise which shall involve him.
DR. SCHMIDT:Thank you.
DR. FROESCHMANN:May I continue?
PRESIDING JUDGE MAGUIRE:If you will. BY DR. FROESCHMANN:
Q.Witness, when did you meet Berger himself?
A.In 1943 I met him quite shortly, I forget where. The first time I met him properly was when, on 26 August 1944, I was drafted to the Waffen-SS and reported to his agency in the SS Main Office.
Q.What was Berger's office at that time?
A.At that moment he was both chief of the SS Main Office and German Commander in Slovakia.
Q.In the course of your further meetings with Berger did you get to know his attitude toward the Eastern peoples?
A.Yes.
Q.What was his attitude?
A.Berger told me that he did not agree with the official policy of the Reich; that he was now in the process of taking over an important assignment - he probably would become chief of Prisoner of War affairs. What mattered to him particularly in that was the question of setting up dignified, humane conditions for the prisoners of war from the East. He had read my memoranda which I had sent to all sorts of Reich party agencies in the course of the years.
Q.Witness, just now you mentioned an official eastern policy of the COURT IV CASE XI Reich government, towards the Eastern peoples.
Please tell me, in one brief sentence, what the essence of this policy was.
A.It was a pure colonial policy with regard to the peoples of the East. Russia was to be nothing but a supplier of raw materials and semifinished products and a large sales area for German heavy industry and export industry.
Q.Did you tell Berger about your experiences during the many years you were in Russia?
A.Berger knew my book about Socialism and my attitude to peoples of the East. He had read my many memoranda and told me this was exactly his view, too.
Q.Did Berger inform you that during 1943 2nd 1944 he had been working, at Himmler's instructions, as liaison man between Himmler and the Eastern Ministry, in accordance with his own ideas?
A.Berger told me that at Rosenberg's request he had been made available by Himmler and that Himmler had expected that he should put into effect everything concerning Himmler's views with reference to treatment of the Eastern peoples.
Q.Did Berger tell you what Himmler's views were in 1943 and 1944?
A.Certainly. He drew my attention to the pamphlet, "Russian Sub Humans," and told me, in an agitated manner, "This is terrible. I cannot stand up for such a view, nor will I." He told me that he had strictly refused to move even a little finger in order to support this insane policy of Himmler's in any way.
Q.Did Berger tell you that before his, Berger's, appointment as Himmler's liaison man with Rosenberg, that his policy had vacillated somewhat?
A.Do you mean Himmler or Rosenberg?
Q.Himmler.
A.It was not until 1944 that there was any talk of vacillation in Himmler's policy. In 1943 he was still in favor of the policy of the brutal subjugation of the Eastern peoples.
Q.May I draw your attention to the fact, and this will be shown February 1943, Himmler had, under Berger's influence, although with hestitation, gradually come to accept Berger's views?
A.That is quite possible but I do not know it myself.
Q.Very well. Had you hoped that through Berger you could realize your ideas on the basis of your experience in the East with regard to the treatment of Eastern peoples?
A.Yes, certainly, otherwise I would never have gone to Berger.
Q.How let us leave this Eastern policy for a time. I pass to your meeting in Slovakia, when Berger was Commander-in-Chief. Here again I only want to discuss a few brief questions with you. How is it that you, who, from a National Socialist point of view, were not absolutely reliable, came to be so near Berger?
A.Any means to help the German people from being led into misery was acceptable to me, I wanted Germany to stand in a fraternal fashion by the side of the Eastern peoples. I was even prepared to be drafted to the Waffen-SS for this purpose.
Q.As what were you drafted?
A.As SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer. I later formally held the rank of independent battalion commander at the end of the war - that means the equivalent of major in the Wehrmacht.
Q.Would you briefly explain to us what exactly your position was?
A.At that time, it was customary that men of special experience and knowledge were assigned for special tasks in the Supreme Reich Agencies, in the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS. Since I had a good deal of knowledge in the Russian matter and Berger obviously wanted a man of this kind near him, Berger, in his capacity of Chief of the SS-Main Office and future Chief of Prisoner-of-War Affairs, had me assigned to him through official channels, from Military Distr. Hq. Metz, where I was living in exile at the time.
Q.I gather from what you say just now that you had fallen into COURT IV CASE XI disgrace in the meantime?
A.I was always regarded with distrust since Kaltenbrunner, Heydrich, and a good many more people in the so-called Security Leadership of the Reich, were, until the end of the war, of the opinion that at the moment when the Red Army marched into Germany, Albrecht would be the man who would have their confidence and who, as confidential agent of Stalin, would take over an important position in the German Reich.
Q.Is it correct that Berger employed you as adviser in political and economic matters and wanted you to advise him in particular with regard to improving the conditions of life of the Eastern people?
A.At my first meeting with Berger he told me that task would be to help him with regard to prisoners of war, especially those from the East whose fate he deeply regretted and also with regard to the Eastern workers -- to help him create suitable human conditions and normal working conditions for them, and to release as many of them as possible.
Q.Witness, the theory has been put up that the Eastern prisoners of war, up to the time when Berger became chief of prisoner of war affairs -- that is the time when the Wehrmacht was still in charge of prisoners of war -- had been very well off indeed, and that when Berger took over prisoner of war affairs, a very hard time started for the Eastern prisoners of war. Now, what are the facts about this?
A.That is a complete distortion of the facts, when at that time I had to visit Gottlob Berger in Slovakia in order to make my proposals about the reorganization of Eastern prisoner of war matters, I described to him all my experiences collected over the preceding two and one half years -- visits to Eastern prisoner of war camps within Germany, in the occupied East, the result of many conferences with friends who, in the meantime, had become German prisoners of war and who had been officers in the Soviet Army, the discussions with Soviet generals and so on.
Q.Was the situation of prisoners of war at the time of which you are speaking now -- that is before you joined Berger -- bad or even a hopeless one -- that is the Eastern prisoners of war?
A.The Eastern prisoners of war were kept under terrible conditions.
Q.And you transmitted your experiences to Berger?
A.Certainly.
Q.And was Berger in favor of your ideas for improving the conditions of Eastern prisoners of war?
A.Berger did not only agree. He even ordered me to work out proposals which should bring about a fundamental change in the existence and kind of work done by Eastern prisoners of war.
Q.What kind of proposals did you make to Berger and, vice versa, Which were afterwards put into effect?
A.Berger left ms a completely free hand. He knew my attitude, and I saw that with all his heart he was filled with deep sympathy for these people. Berger, as an educator of youth by profession, and as a teacher, has perhaps a particularly soft spot in his heart towards helpless people. That was what I observed up until the end of the war. At his orders, together with Russian prisoners of war who were released by him, I set up a staff of so-called indigenous inspectors. In the prisoner of war camps. We started first in Military District III in Berlin to select prisoners of war from the East whom we could trust, who were released in accordance with their rank in the Red Army, put in German uniforms. In order to have a position of authority in all camps, we appointed spokesmen. We established a whole network of information agencies in the prisoner of war camps who kept me, as commander of this indigenous inspectorate, informed through the former Russian officers as to every detail in the way of injustice that went on in the camps.
Q.In the industrial plants where Eastern workers were employed, did you set up any institutions in order to improve conditions there?
A.In the course of 1942-43, quite a number of German industrialists approached me who, as they said, had tremendous difficulties with regard to the work and the treatment of Eastern peoples, and Eastern prisoners of war, in their plants. Thereupon I suggested, and got put into effect, that in many German industrial plants, socalled indigenous engineering offices should be set up. Trustworthy engineers, technicians, experts, were selected currently from the prisoner of war camp and freed, and employed as free workers in a socalled indigenous engineers' office in these plants.
Q.Did you, on behalf of Berger, do something to improve the food and clothing of the Eastern prisoners of war? Was there a difference at that time in clothing and feeding of the Eastern prisoners of war compared with the Western prisoners of war?
A.Certainly. On the basis of an order of Dr. Ley, who was in charge of material matters concerning prisoners of war and Eastern workers camps, Ley, in agreement with the Wehrmacht and Hitler's orders, had issued a so-called Western and Eastern food ration. The Western prisoners of war, in particular, were treated for better, while the helpless Eastern prisoners of war who were not under the International Red Cross were used by everybody who felt like it for wiping their boots on them, and there were a good many of those. After Berger has first obtained the agreement of the supreme Reich agencies, and that was very difficult to set, Berger had Eastern prisoners of war and Eastern workers treated like the Western prisoners of war, and set about increasing the standard of living of Extern prisoners of war and Eastern workers to approach that of the Western prisoners of war.
Q.Is it true that on Berger's behalf you also saw to it that the Eastern prisoners of war should, in accordance with their previous training, be used for better types of work and not only do all the dirty jobs which were given to them by the Wehrmacht Prisoner of War Command?
A.Against the wish of the Leadership of the German Labor Front, Berger saw to it that the previously mentioned Russian engineers office should be set up in the biggest plants, in particular in Military District III, and in others, and that all the Eastern prisoners of war and Eastern Workers should be employed in closed shifts under their own leaders so that the Germans were only responsible for the planning, while the Russians, under their own leadership, were responsible for the execution. The Germans merely took over the finished product and the Russians, together with the Germans, worked out the wages.
Naturally, this made It possible to employ highly qualified technicians in the best places, and since food and achievement usually go together, it was also possible to give them decent and adequate food.
Q.Witness, were the hygienic conditions in the camps of Eastern prisoners of war also improved through you on behalf of Berger?
A.Yes. At my proposal a very experience woman doctor, a Russian, whose name I would prefer to conceal for security reasons, was made responsible. This woman physician, who for eighteen years had been in a wall-known spa, was made responsible for the medical care of the Eastern prisoners of war. She got Russian prisoners of war physicians and medical orderlies out of the camps, and in the Eastern prisoner of war camps she set up special indigenous sick bays. The SS Main Office made available the medicines which everybody else refused to give but which Berger managed to gut. Everybody said, "It's not even enough for the Germans, Are we to share our few medicines and little equipment with the Eastern workers?" so that in fact in the hygienic sphere, Berger did everything humanly possible in order to help to prevent epidemics, to keep the sick rate at the lowest possible figure, and to help sick persons.
Q.Am I correctly informed that after the end of the war letters of thanks reached you from these people -- that is the Russian prisoners of war?
A.After being interned and a prisoner of war for twenty-seven months, because under the law I was a member of the SS, and therefore formally came under the Nuernberg decision I submitted in My defense before the German denazification court -- I asked a number of former comrades to trace down former Russian army officers and get their comments on me. At the first examination by the prosecution I submitted a good many such documents and in the meantime from abroad, from America, from Austria, I obtained new certifications, all of which expressed the gratitude of these formerly helpless slaves who had no legal rights.
Q.Thank you, That is enough. Did you, furthermore, on behalf of Berger, also obtain the right for Russian prisoners of War to complain in the camps, shall we say by special complaint boxes and similar institutions?
A.From my experience as a G.P.U. in Russia I knew how, under dictatorship, it is practically impossible for prisoners to get complaints submitted to the proper agency. That is why it was my first proposal to Berger that he should permit me to establish letter boxes in all prisoner of war camps which were not near the administration building , where every prisoner of war could, unobserved, throw in his slips of complaint which my inspectors alone were entitled to take out of the dosed boxes, and pass on to me in the central office. This made it possible for people to complain and we heard things about most unpleasant incidents in the camps which certainly neither Berger nor anybody else would ever have heard because the local camp leaders would certainly not have permitted such matters to become public and the superior agency would not have been allowed to hear of it.
Q.Did you, on Berger's behalf, make a fundamental change with regard to discipline concerning Eastern prisoners of war?
A.In the prisoner of war camps we set up so-called comradeship courts everywhere.